Hive splits design

[pamlico]

I want to make several splits this Spring. I want to take an existing hive and partition it to make a 5 frame nuc on each side. I would limit the queen to one side and introduce a new queen to the other side. Does anyone have instruction on how to build the split hive or could point me to instruction to build one? Any instruction on the logics of such a split will be appreciated.

[BEES4U]

I would suggest that you purchase some 5 frame nucs for the purpose,
Ernie

[Jeffzhear]

I want to make several splits this Spring. I want to take an existing hive and partition it to make a 5 frame nuc on each side. I would limit the queen to one side and introduce a new queen to the other side. Does anyone have instruction on how to build the split hive or could point me to instruction to build one? Any instruction on the logics of such a split will be appreciated.


Let the second side raise their own queen...

[olddrown]

If you just split the hive with a board ,with 5 frames to each side the bees will go to the side the queen is on.Another hive body, or 2 nucs will be best.

[pamlico]

I thought I would save money by using this method. I was not sure how to construct the split without some bees going over the top of the partition. As far as drifting, I thought I could shut-up the side without the queen for 3 days, and force a queen cell. Would that eliminate the drift to the side with the old queen?

[StevenG]

As already observed, the bees will go to the side with their queen. And my bet is such crowding would force swarming, defeating your purpose...

For the time and energy you spend in trying to make such a divided hive work, it would probably be just as quick to build two nucs.

[kiwiBee]

you can use vinyl cut to the same size as the box make sure your top bars are clean of lumps of wax and the vinyl will sit flat on top of the frames just check to make sure the bees can't get between the edge partition and the hive wall.
A couple of questions
why are you splitting the hive? and are your hives 2 brood boxs or one? would it be easier to do a top split if you run your hives 2 high?

[pamlico]

I have 2 hives that are one box but full of bees. The winters are mild here and I thought I could split the hives in early Spring making 2 five frame nucs out of each hive. If and when the five frame sides became crowded, I would transtfer them to 10 frame hives. I was thinking of ways to increase my hives with little expense. So far from the committs I have received, I believe it is not a good idea.

[kiwiBee]

If you are going to eventually put them in their own box what about doing a top split? you dont need to adapt anything apart from having a splitboard, our split boards double as hive mats.
You would have to make each hive you want to split a double and I guess if you are using foundation rather than drawn frames it may take a few weeks for the bees to draw it out but it's such an easy way to make an increase.

[wildbranch2007]

here is a design and the results of leaving them in that configuration until the next spring.

http://www.johnstonshoneybeefarm.com/

mike syracuse

[Ross]

Here you go. I use them all the time.
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/nuc/
I like to make the bottom board with a front and back entrance or side entrances. If you need to rebalance the two sides, just rotate the hive body. If you are introducing a new queen, you won't really have much drifting problem. You could also remove the existing queen completely to a new location and introduce two new queens to eliminate drifting. I also do this to raise queens, just make sure each side has eggs.

[camero7]

Ross.

Is that a standard deep you use or is it larger like Mike's?

[Ross]

Standard medium. I don't do deeps for anything,

[Jack Grimshaw]

I use a frame feeder/divider copied from Mike Palmer and Kirk Webster( and many others I'm sure)
Feeder is just under 2 frames wide,2 compartments w/opposite entrances,and sits flush with top and bottom of the super.It needs a bottom board with a divider cleat down the center and opposite entrances.Use a feed sack or silt fence as an inner cover.
It creates 2-4 frame nucs and we overwinter them in the NE.

Maybe Mike can post some pictures.

Jack

[wildbranch2007]

Maybe Mike can post some pictures.

Jack

he has pictures on his web site
http://www.johnstonshoneybeefarm.com/

mike syracuse

[pamlico]

Jack that is a good idea(feeder-Divider). Have you ever split one hive and added a new queen to the queenless side, or have you split one hive and added two new queens?

[Jack Grimshaw]

Wildbranch,
Sorry I wasn't more clear.I meant Mike Palmer.

I haven't had the chance to dig deep in Michael Johnstons site .I did notice that the 2 nuc bottom board is pretty much the same.

Pamlico,
I rarely make splits and when I do I usually regret it(last season)
I make nucs in the spring with swarm cells,bees and brood or midsummer with bees ,brood and a queen.
The spring nucs will overwinter as a single deep or more and the summer nucs as 2
4 framers
In a perfect world,they become next years producers.I do have some winter loss.

I've spent some time on the outer banks.The smell of a salt marsh.......

Jack

[Michael Palmer]

Wildbranch,
Sorry I wasn't more clear.I meant Mike Palmer.

I thought you meant MJ too.


I have two types of double nuc boxes. Difference is the central divider. First type has a movable division board feeder that separates the two chambers. Feeder has 2 chambers with separate entrances for each nuc. Second type has a solid divider. Both use seed bag for inner cover.

Both have advantages and drawbacks.

The feeder type has an internal feeder so no extra equipment needed to give a little feed in spring. Also can use the feeder as a follower board. Also can move the feeder to side wall and create an 8 frame nuc...where you want to expand nuc, or where one nuc failed you can give good nuc 4 more combs. Drawback...when you transfer the nuc to full size hive, or want to catch the queen...she's in the feeder and you can't find her.

The solid divider eliminates that problem, but you need extra equipment to feed them...feeder can and empty brood box to use as shell. One advantage, you can add individual nuc boxes to be used as supers. Allows each nuc to expand upwards and to be worked individually.

All boxes are standard dimensions.

Bottom board can have entrances on opposite sides or front and back. Cleats are 3/8".

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff61/frenchhill/nucbottomboard.jpg

Feeder type showing seed bag inner cover folded back.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff61/frenchhill/readyforwinter.jpg

Solid divider nuc box in spring.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff61/frenchhill/overwintednucs1.jpg

Nuc box with super added.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff61/frenchhill/DSC_1103.jpg

[Jack Grimshaw]

Mike,

Thanks for the pictures.

When I transfer to full size hives,I slide the feeder to the right(or add one).My inner covers have a 1/4 lip so both chambers are accessible to the bees.For stimulative or emergency feeding I pop the cover and slide to the left an inch with minor hive disruption.

The bees do build comb in the feeders but so far i've been lucky in finding the queen.

[jdpro5010]

Mr. Palmer, I am having trouble seeing how you have seperate entrances to each nuc. Can you maybe explain it to help me out?

[jdpro5010]

Also can you explain what the feeder is made out of and how you keep it sealed to prevent leakage? Beeswax maybe?

[Michael Palmer]

Mr. Palmer, I am having trouble seeing how you have seperate entrances to each nuc. Can you maybe explain it to help me out?

Notice on the pic of the bottom board. The outside rim has two cutouts, one on each side. With a box on the rim, the cutouts create entrances. Notice in the pic of the nuc yard. You can see some of the entrances on various nuc boxes in the yard. Some have the entrances on opposite sides, and some have them front and back. Doesn't matter.

[Michael Palmer]

Also can you explain what the feeder is made out of and how you keep it sealed to prevent leakage? Beeswax maybe?

The feeder has a pine rim and tempered masonite walls. All parts are glued and nailed using subfloor adhesive or exterior liquid nails. The walls are also glued and nailed to the rim.

[jdpro5010]

I am sorry I meant how do you keep the entance to the feeder seperate for each colony? In other words how do you create a feeder for each nuc? Thank you for explaining the feeder construction.