5 frame NUC question

[louborges]

I started a winter NUC recently, I know it too late in the season to start one but I did it because I bought a queen for a hive that I thought was queen-less but discovered she was in there when I attempted to install the new queen. So I decided to create a winter NUC. I grabbed 2 frames if brood from the strong hive and 2 frames of capped honey plus one frame of drawn comb. Not all from the same hive. They excepted the new queen a week ago. I also started to give the lot of heavy syrup. When I inspected the hive to see if the queen was laying eggs I discovered that most of the cells were filled with syrup. Little room for more brood. How do bees allocate the space between stores of honey and brood? This must be difficult going into winter and not being able to expand. Do I need to do something or will they figure it out themselves?

[Joseph Clemens]

It's been awhile since I lived in La Cienega, NM; I know it can get quite cold during the Winter, but perhaps creating Nucs can still be done successfully this late in the season. Until my current operation here in Tucson, AZ, I never really had more than a half-dozen colonies at any one time, nor had any Nucs, or raised queens, until now, here in Tucson, AZ.

[Velbert]

I would not feed a lot just enough to stimulate brood rearing to its max you want the queen to pack the frames will all the brood she can lay and for long as she will lay in the combs to get the nuc built up so if you place in more frame make sure they are of brooding quality not full of deep cells and full of honey and pollen to hinder the queens laying ability.

Then when the season winds down where the queen is not lay much because of cutting back, feed heavy with thick syrup or better yet add you a box on top add some full frames of honey directly over where the bees will be clustering put a frame that is only about half full of honey right in the center when you add your full frames of honey above the cluster they need a few empty cells the bees will move up onto the honey when they need to.
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[louborges]

Okay, I should not have feed them so early. Is there anything I could do now to help or if I stop feeding them now will they eat or move the syrup around to make room for the brood? I could also move them to a full size deep and add some empty frames.

[mythomane]

Throw the nectar up into a 5 frame super or divide two deeps, and use those. Place empty comb in the bottom broodnest and do not feed until she has filled up the frames with eggs, then feed again. Kept bees in NM for years and you can do this, but they need stores. They wont need much if you get off the mountains -- they can do with a lot less in Vaughn, for example.

[EastSideBuzz]

Are you doing a 5 framer into winter or a 2 story 5x2 framer.? If you are doing a 2 story one then you could pull a frame of honey and put it back when you add the second tier on.

[Robert Hawkins]

Give em some frames of brood from the stronger hives.

Hawk

[Fuzzy]

Your nights will get cold soon but your days should still be nice until Nov. If they were mine, I would get rid of the capped honey and give them two frames of drawn comb. Withold feed until they consume most of what they have. I would also consider putting a pollen patty on top until they fill the box. As soon as the box is full of capped brood I would move the frames into a 10 frame box, add two frames of honey, and feed until they fill that box.

But, what do I know... I don't live there -- Fuzzy

[louborges]

I decided to solve the problem by moving them to a full size deep and added 5 un-drawn frames. I intend to feed them most of the winter. I have two questions about what purpose a Nuc provides.

Is the smaller size to help them better regulate the inside temperature? Less space to keep warm? But the smaller size restricts them from growing and producing brood, Correct?
But if most Nuc's are started in spring/summer is this necessary. Over wintering makes sense.

[EastSideBuzz]

Yes it helps them keep warm. They ball up in the center and they keep warm better. I actually use a deep box and cut a 1/8th in divider in the middle and make it a 2 story double NUC for the winter.

[louborges]

Okay, Smaller is better for heat, But how about them balancing between stores of food and brood? I need to feed them heavily now for stores of food but if they fill most of the frames with syrup and leave little room for brood, is this not a problem? Like I said I moved them to a full size deep, which I think solves this problem. I'm just trying to better understand the design of a Nuc.

[denny]

Like Hawk says, I would give them a couple frames with capped brood , preferably containing pollen & honey. You need to build their numbers as quickly as possible so they have more bees to cluster over area where you're wanting the queen to continue to lay and build up their numbers of young bees going into winter. As the new young bees from the capped brood hatches out, it'll give the queen room to lay right within that center. Pollen pattie ( preferably with real pollen content) on top bars would help, too. Don't overfeed them syrup, as this will create back filling the brood nest which they should avoid right now because the queen needs room to lay and she needs young nurse bees to attend the developing brood. Good luck :)