Missing queen in first-year hive--help!

[3pianists]

Background: I'm a first-year beekeeper with one and only one hive.

When I checked my hive this afternoon, I observed that
1) there was no activity in the super I put on in mid-July, not even any comb being drawn.
2) there was very little brood. In previous inspections, there was a ton of brood in a great pattern.
3) the brood that was there was capped. There was not an egg or uncapped larva in the whole hive.
4) there was very little pollen/nectar and NO capped honey.
5) there were about seven swarm cells, and three or four supercedure cells. All were open, with no larvae inside.
6) there were fewer bees than on previous inspections. Even from the outside it was evident that there was less activity.

From this I conclude that there is no actively laying queen. :eek: I know that there was one about three weeks ago; the hive was vibrant, there were plenty of eggs, and I did actually see the queen. If it takes 23 days from egg to laying queen (see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brood_(honey_bee))) there could be an up-and-coming new queen within a few days. But if I wait and see if there is a new queen, I could also end up with laying workers. And this late in the season, the last thing I need is to get rid of my young workers with hardly any brood to replace them!

I removed the super and swapped the upper and lower deeps in hopes of stimulating some activity, not that it'll make a difference if there isn't a queen!

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

[JOHNYOGA2]

I'll take a swing:
1.The fact that there has been no activity in the super since Mid July tells me that there has likely been a dearth since then and they just haven't had the stores available to need to expand.
2 and 3 do point to the queen having stopped laying. Wether that was because she left via swarm or abscound or death is a question with an unknown answer. Combined with the dearth and lack of eggs, I would favor abscound-they left seeking better pastures, not knowing that this year generally was a bad one all over.
4. Is very troubleing this time of year especially. Six weeks before the end of the season, they have no stores.
5. They tried to make a new queen. Even bees that are queenless, if there is the possibility of a queen, generally continue to function and gather stores.
6. What you have now is probably bees that were brood when the hive left. You said that there was a lot of brood three weeks ago.

I would say that this hive was in a very desperate state and if at all possible, I would IMMEDIATELY try to locate a nuc with a laying queen and fresh brood to combine with it. If you just get a mated queen you're still looking at three to four weeks before you have new bees. By then you're into October. I'm pretty pessimestic about this hives chances. Sorry.

[3pianists]

Wether that was because she left via swarm or abscound or death is a question with an unknown answer. Combined with the dearth and lack of eggs, I would favor abscound-they left seeking better pastures, not knowing that this year generally was a bad one all over.

If they had absconded, wouldn't the hive be abandoned now? And does the old queen or the new queen leave with a swarm?

You're right, there was a big lapse in the nectar flow. I put on the super and stopped feeding during this lapse, which wasn't the best idea I guess. Any ideas what would have put them in such a desperate situation?

Thanks!

[Brent Bean]

What is the temperament of the bees when you opened the hive?
If they were loud and seem aggressive flying at you veil there may not be a queen.
If they seemed quiet on the comb they more than likely have a queen that hasn’t started to lay yet, you mentioned that their was open queen cells. They may have a queen that has shut down due to lake of nectar or colder weather. Russians are more likely to do this that other races of bee I have had.
If your hive was vibrant a few weeks ago and the queen died they would have had ample brood to raise another queen, this process can set you back around 40 days.
Make very sure you are really queenless or you could lose a new queen that you paid for because they are actually queen rite and will not except her. Sometimes patients is the best course of action, wait a few days and check again.

[3pianists]

What is the temperament of the bees when you opened the hive?

There were probably 4-5 flying at my veil throughout the course of the inspection; they'd give up pretty quickly, though. One actually managed to get inside. :(


If your hive was vibrant a few weeks ago and the queen died they would have had ample brood to raise another queen, this process can set you back around 40 days.

Do I have the time to wait for a new queen to start laying? The first frost date is 9/19 for my area. As far as I can tell, the most time that could have passed since the queen stopped laying is 3 weeks (since there's still capped brood), giving me a best case wait of 19 more days before I get any new brood. :(

Thanks for your reply!

[KQ6AR]

If you have a second hive, or can get a frame with eggs on it from someone. Put it in the hive. If they make a queen cell they are queenless. I don't know if you have time for them to raise one where you live.
Some of the guys in the northern states where talking about seeing drones being kicked out of their hives.

[JOHNYOGA2]

3,
The reason I favor abscounding (and I agreee that they would normally all leave at once) is that, if they swarmed, you would still have a viable population of bees who would still be actively working at bringing in supplies. Your comments 4 and 6 seem to imply that you have few bees who aren't working. Swarming is generally done immediately before a new queen emerges and the hive which she will one day rule (hopefully) continues to fully function as a hive. The bees don't stop forageing for nectar and pollen waiting for her to begin. Swarming is generally the sign of a hive that is so successful it outgrows it's home. Doesn't sound like (statements 1 and 4) your hive was booming.
It could have been abscounding, it could have been a swarm, the queen could have just died/been killed. We don't know. Doesn't really matter. What you do need to do is decide what you do from now on and I would recommend trying to get a nuc with a laying mated queen who has a nuc frame or two of brood because it's so late in the season. Since you only have the one hive and can't rob from another, I'm pessimestic about your chances of pulling it through. But I wish you the best of luck.

[franktrujillo]

hello,there is a difference on were the cells are placed..supecedure cells are on the middle of the combs.swarm cell are hanging down at the bottom of the frames.so supercedure cells are built if your queen is,hurt,wing broke,leg hair damaged,antena so on.it will take about 43 days to see new foragers.In a weak hive newly hatched bees will actually fly after a few days to forage if need to be done..but they are bad flyers:D most likely they will be fine.no both queens will not leave only older one.some times they will produce 2 laying queens to try to save the hive.I wouldn't try to introduce 2 queens tho my self i leave it to the bees.some times the bees leave the queen cells up and not tear them down..insurance i guess sudden loss of queen cells are built.Another thing since i have an observation hive they will move eggs and small larva to other cells.have not seen them move them yet but i marked on the glass what cells eggs and larva was in and the next day they was all moved to the top of the comb :scratch:continued to watch next day more eggs on that side scratch.no queen present made sure since they have supercedure cells I placed frames of eggs i watched them make and cap. again they made cell then they added larva.The hive is doing fine she is a good layer.

[BarbaraL]

Your situation is identical to mine. The hive (one of 2 hives) was booming in July and they made supercedure cells at the end of July. I let them requeen and there was a new queen but I found her dead a few days later - not sure what happened but she may have been stung. They then made about 20 supercedure cells. Activity was pathetic - 2 bees on the porch but there were bees inside but I know population was really down because of lack of brood for so long. I bought a queen and installed her yesterday in a queen cage. I crushed the supercedure cells. I know it's touch and go if this hive can survive but I'm a new beekeeper and was hoping not to fail in my first year. I'm in southern Ontario and I knew that I couldn't wait for those cells to hatch on there own because it's so late in the year.

I can certainly sympathize with you.

[JOHNYOGA2]

Barbara and 3,
You can't think of this experience as a failure. Every Beek on this forum no matter whether they have 1 hive or 4000, no matter whether they have just started or are celebrating their 40th year, have lost hives. The only Beek whose never lost a hive is likely also the only Beek whose never been stung!
Bees sometimes do things that are completely mystifying. You can "usually" make some sense out of what they did, but often times not. Everything that you've learned this year will make you better next year. Remember in Beekeeping, next year is always the best year.

[3pianists]

Thank you all for your comments and advice.

With the help of my local beekeeping expert, I think I figured out what happened. During the second week in August, I took out a frame of brood and the queen for a temporary observation hive. My theory is that they killed the queen when I put her back and began raising new queens--thus the queen cells I've been seeing. So if that's the case, there are a couple of virgin queens running around; fortunately, I still have drones in the hive, so I should see new eggs next time I inspect (next Wednesday). Let's hope, anyway!

Barbara, best of luck to you. I have at least a little more time for my hive to get back up and running.

Thanks to everyone! :)