Queenless swarm?

[Beegreen]

I caught a very nice swarm about 7 days ago. They were on a low hanging limb and I was able to get a very large burlap bag around the entire swarm and then dump them in a box and very few bees were able to escape. I opened the super today to check for brood cells and there aren't any. I did find pollen in some of the cells and some cells have the beginnings of honey in them. The hive is very active every day but the temps are dropping to the upper 30's/low 40's at night. How long does it take for a queen to start laying eggs and cells to be capped? I was thinking about merging this swarm with a hive that I know has a queen? Any help or ideas is appreciated. I've learned a lot from all the postings on this site. :) Thanks in advance.

[franktrujillo]

hello, There not queenless shes waiting for more drawn comb at least 3 combs and food stores..need to place a feeder with 1:1 i use self watering dog dish with piece of bark floating away from hive they will find.The reason keeps ants and other pests away from hive.Reduce hive entrance to at least 3"to 4" to free up bees...need to feed:popcorn:

[D Coates]

I'd wait for another week. You may have a virgin queen that's got to get out for mating before she can start laying. Is the hive acting like they've got a queen (calm, quiet, acting with a sense of purpose) or queenless (agressive, meandering, dull roaring sound)? That can tell you alot as well. You can also drop a frame in there with some eggs. If they make queen cells you're queenless, if not you're not.

Even with a Queen you may not have time to get them up to a population density that can survive your winter. I'd also talk to some locals so you know how much more time you can expect them raise brood before the first freeze. If you end up having to, combining them with another hive is a great way to save the resource for a possible early spring split as well.

[earthchild]

Hey beegreen. Where are you in Northeast MI? We could be neighbors...of course, anyone is a neighbor if you live this far north. Is it possible that you have over-looked the queen and any eggs in the cells? It's a bit hard to spot 'em if you're new to this. It sounds like you have yourself a nice swarm, so I wouldn't combine it with another hive until your absolutely certain she's not in there. I'm curious to know what you're using for foundation and if you're feeding them.

[Beegreen]

This is only the 2nd swarm I have ever caught (the first one was caught in July) so they appear to be acting normal, always out looking for food, easy to be around and quiet. I pulled the frames today and looked for a queen and did not see one. Since I have never seen a queen before maybe I overlooked her... As far as frames, I'm using some which already have atleast 80% drawn comb on them. I got them from a guy that keeps hives behind my house for the summer (he lives a long ways away). I bought some Megabee patties as well as a frame feeder and they arrived today so I will start feeding them tomorrow. I pulled a frame from the first swarm that I caught that had some larvae in it and put it in with them. I read on one of the previous posts that it was a good idea to try. I'll give 'em a week and if everything still looks the same I guess I will merge them with the swarm I caught in July?? I'm over here in Lincoln which is not far from Lewiston. Thanks for the help everyone...

[earthchild]

Good luck Beegreen. Congrats on catching the swarm, too. There seems to be an awful lot of late season swarms, which I don't get, but those bees do their thing when they want. Keep us posted on how things go and what you decide to do. I'm sure it will work out.

[Josh Carmack]

You say you haven't seen a queen yet, I can say for me it wasn't hard for me to see the difference once I actually saw my first queen. Everyone is different, but for me I was getting false positives everywhere I looked. a worker with an extended abdomen, a drone they all got my heart pumping thinking I had spotted the queen. Then I really saw her. A mature queen will stand out like a sore thumb once you spot her. Now, a virgin on the other hand is different, once you get used to what a virgin looks like, you'll never mistake her again either. But if you see a virgin/young queen for the first time its quite possible you'll mistake her for a worker. The next guy may be different, I'm renewing my self to all this after a coma and a 10 year break from doing it as a kid on the farm. So in the spring of 08 I spotted my first queen with my own eyes. Now it's much easier to distinguish her, but I still will often look in my hives that I know are queenright, and still not see a queen.

You say you don't see eggs, so you have a few choices,
1 wait and do nothing with possible death of the colony
2 check back in a few days and check for eggs at which point you'll be back at this decision again if you do not see eggs
3 order a queen and do an egg test while waiting for her to get there.

If they make queen cells from the eggs you give them, you know they need a queen, and an introduced queen will be accepted rapidly
if they ignore the new eggs, you can do a thorough search for and replace the queen, or start a late nuc with the ordered queen if you have enough brood from other colonies to do it with. If the original queen never does lay, then again search and destroy and then combine with the nuc


4 Lastly, if you feel you have the time depending on your region, you can wait for them to develop a queen from the eggs you provide, which is somewhat chancy as say may be eaten on her mating flight