Mean Bees

[Doc5000]

I have only had a hive since May. My bees have been very gentle except for about two weeks when they were queenless. Until last week, I had never been stung by these bees. They requeened their hive and then they were gentle again. I have been feeding them because there is not much nectar flow here. About 9 days ago, I opened the hive (I only had one deep on because they have not needed more). There were over three frames of capped brood and they had drawn all the frames out and filled almost all of it. I put another deep on the next day. Since then, I have been out to the hive three times and have gotten stung every single time. Twice I was feeding them and one time I just went to look and see if they were brining back any pollen/nectar.

Tonight I changed the top feeder. It was after dark because I get home late. I took off the mason jar, put a lid in place to keep the bees in, refilled the feeder, took the lid off and replaced the feeder. In the time it took me to take the lid off and put the mason jar feeder into the hole, (less than a half a second, probably), 8 or 10 very angry bees came out and stung me three times. I walked away, and one of the bees followed me into the house (about 250 feet away) and I had to kill it in self defense. What is going on?

[beedeetee]

It's fall.

In the spring the bees don't have much to protect, there are not that many of them and there is something blooming to replace what they have. The days are getting longer and other good things in a bees life.

In the fall there are more of them (more of everything including guard bees). The days are getting shorter, they have brood and honey to protect.

In spring you don't usually need that much protection or smoke. In the fall everything changes.

[Doc5000]

I have not seen this response before, so I do not know, but it seems too abrupt and severe to be a reaction to a change of seasons. Also, it is not fall here. We will not get cold weather for at least another two months to three months. Other beekeepers tell me that we will have another nectar flow that should begin soon. I am curious if anyone has any other explanations.

[LBEE]

Hi Doc.

According to:

http://www.stingshield.com/fl.htm

the African Honey Bees have been found in Alachua County. If this is correct, it would be possible for the new queen to have mated with one or some African Drones.

The other possible explanation is that the new queen mated with Non-African drones but the progeny of the new queen are not as gentle as before.

In either case, the personality of the hive would change as the new bees hatch and the old bees died. Also, in either case, you can requeen with q queen of a gentle stock to correct the problem.

I have covered the hole with 1/8" screen so I can take the jar off without the bees coming after me. Before, I had some hives that I would sting me as I changed the jar, if I would give them the opportunity. Before putting the screen on, I would use card stock (thick paper like a post card) to slide under the lid before I removed the jar. I like the screen better, even though I believe it interferes some with the bees taking the syrup.

Best wishes from the other coast.

Larry

[Dr.Wax]

That is not normal for me in the fall as someone suggested.

Sure, they are a little more testy but not THAT testy.

[indypartridge]

I have not seen this response before, so I do not know, but it seems too abrupt and severe to be a reaction to a change of seasons. Also, it is not fall here. We will not get cold weather for at least another two months to three months. Other beekeepers tell me that we will have another nectar flow that should begin soon. I am curious if anyone has any other explanations.
My first reaction was the same as beedeetee: fall. Bees don't trigger on cold weather as much as the angle of the sun in the sky and the days getting shorter. Abrupt changes in behavior can also be the result of bad weather, dearth (no nectar), being bothered by skunks, going queenless, change in queen and sometimes for no apparent reason whatsoever.

[mythomane]

It was after dark and you pull the top off to feed and you wonder why you get stung? You also seem to be disturbing this hive a great deal. You should not be going in there more than once a week at the most. Check them in the middle of the day when the foragers are out. Use a screen in the top hole and you do not need to remove the lid. Is the feeder surrounded by another super to protect it from robbers? It is fall, and they are hungry and protective. Who knows who your new queen mated with? There are hot bees and calm bees. Every time someone gets a hot hive I hear this : "They have become Africanized." Silly, especially when there are so many inexperienced new keepers out there. It is an easy answer, but it is usually wrong. There have always been mean bees, way before the Africans. If these bees were really mean you would have more like 50-100 stings. If you want really gentle bees requeen with a Carny or one of the Cordovans from Koehnens.

[clarkfarm]

I don't read the original post as saying this hive has been opened frequently. As I read it, the poster said the hive was opened 9 days ago and since then has only been observed from the outside to see if bees are bringing in pollen and to change a hive top feeder. If I am reading this correctly, then the poster may solve the immediate issue -- feeding the bees without being stung -- by using the screen suggested or the cardboard device. I use a small piece of ply wood that has been "tooled" with a semi-circle on both ends. I place it next to the jar and slide both until the hole is covered, then lift off the jar. Reverse to replace the jar. Not one bee comes out. So this could be done at night as long as you didn't bump the hive and cause bees to come out the front entrance.

As far as the change in behavior, I am only a second year beekeeper but I had the same thing happen to me and can attest that a colony can change a lot from May to August even with the same queen. The following Spring, everything was back to calm. Love my bee jacket all all the time now and haven't had a problem even now that its fall again.

[franktrujillo]

Hello, another thing when its dark all bees are back in hive...Older bees are more aggressive than younger bees, it was night also that upsets them to remove cover or feeder ...Also the bees have something to guard food store and brood.There are many things that upsets them ants,wasps ,beetles ,moths and if you wore any dark clothing or any other pest tring to get in.You know they have to guard from these..Thats one reason i don't feed in the hives.:D too many problems feeding I'm not feeding any more i'll let them keep some stores so i dont have to feed.

[Ross]

Are you using smoke? Fall, bigger hives, bad weather, all make bees more aggressive. I would say a single sting at this time of year is normal when you are working a hive.

[Gene Weitzel]

A few aggressive guard bees at night, a couple of stings and one following you back to the house is pretty normal this time of year. If you have not experienced this in the past, then you have been pretty lucky. Someone who obviously has never experienced an AHB hive has suggested that this might be the result of Africanization, all I can say is not even close.

[MWillard]

Tonight I changed the top feeder. It was after dark because I get home late.

It's been my experience, that if I work the hives when it's getting late in the day, they become much more defensive and aggressive. Even being in the hive for a short period of time after dusk can set them off into a frenzy. If you can't avoid getting into the hive at that time, then try some smoke. Or better yet, try working them in the early morning before you need to leave the house.

[Robee]

This is my second year and it sounds like pretty normal behavior to me. My first year, I visited my bees, fed them, looked for queens, etc for a couple of months in shorts and t-shirt. No veil, no jacket, no smoke. Then around August, they got a lot more aggressive. I started weiring a veil, then had to go to a jacket, then added gloves. People answered the same way. Africanized. LOL, Bull. That could actually be a good thing as aren't they great survivors? They must be to spread from Brazil or where ever and not die out from CCD or mites. Wish they were but I am afraid they are just Italians, and just bees and bees do sting.
You should have seen my stronger colony this year. They built up fast and even with the full armor, they would chase me 100 yards to the house and a dozen would get inside as I slid in the back door. Then I remembered I had a smoker, never used the first season. It helped a lot but dang they were still mean. That colony swarmed in May and I caught the swarm. Their temperment settled right down but you know, I still need to smoke and wear the full gear if I get into the hives.
They are just bees and bees do sting.
Robee

[Doc5000]

Thanks for hall of the responses. From the comments, I guess this is normal August behavior, but the change in temperament has been quite extreme. Previously the bees were so gentle that I had never been stung, not even on a glove and to have the bees come boiling out of there so quickly and aggressively was surprising.

To clear up a misunderstanding, I use a mason jar top feeder. It holds a 1/2 gallon and I do not have to remove the top or "get in" the hive to change it. It sits in a hole sawn in the top of the hive that is the diameter of the lid. I have a spare mason jar lid that I put in the hole when the feeder is not in use. It is very convenient. I have been refilling it once a day for the past week or so.

I think most of that capped brood has hatched and the population is high. From what I have read, young bees are the ones that draw out comb, so I hope that they will draw out all of those frames and perhaps even fill the deep before "Winter". If they cannot fill it, at least they may have comb ready for next spring.

I have not actually opened the hive since the Sunday before last. I will go into it this weekend to see if they are doing anything in the new deep I put on. Perhaps they will run me out to the street. I think I will try putting some screen over the feeder hole as suggested. Thanks again for the responses.

[Sam-Smith]

I agree a couple of stings every once in a while isn't bad, and I have noticed that a few environmental conditions will make them more aggressive, sometimes they just get annoyed with us for no reason. I read a strange idea for "taming" wild honey bees, is to take some of your old unwashed stinky cloths "the smellier the better" and hang them on a pole or line near the hives so they can "wave" in the breeze. This should teach them that big flappy smelly colorful things are not a threat :D Never tried this before but have read it works really well. Bees are pretty smart for insects.


Sam.

[Slee]

What are you wearing? If you are wearing the same stuff the bee Pheromone from the other stings is still in your clothes. Make sure you wash your bee clothes.

[Michael Bush]

NEVER open a hive in the dark!

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmoving.htm#afterdark