How I Raise Queen Cells

[Joseph Clemens]

I have several Nucs I built that have half-inch plywood sides, this has made them wide enough inside to fit four 1-1/4" wide frames and three 3/8" wide cell bars. I place one cell bar between each pair of frames beginning in the center, where I place new grafts, then I move the center cell bar to either side as I harvest ripe cells and graft a new bar.

I make up the cell-building Nucs with the two outer frames heavy with honey and pollen. The two inner frames nearly solid with sealed and emerging worker brood - these I replace as the brood nearly completes emergence. I also shake several frames of nurse bees into this Nuc so the cells are well fed and cared for. I keep a patty of pollen substitute available on top of the frames and a quart-sized feeder of 1 to 1 sugar syrup. Whenever I've added new frames of brood I check them carefully after a few days to locate and remove any rouge queen cells that may have been constructed from any eggs or young larva transferred with the frames of emerging brood.

After I've raised a few batches of queen cells with each Nuc I move them to a new location and place an empty Nuc box of normal dimensions in its place, then I move the frames from the old cell-raising Nuc into it, shaking the bees off the frames into the box they are being removed from - this inspires the older, field bees to return to their old location where they recluster on the combs they were just shaken from. I give these older bees, in the old location one or two of the ripe queen cells and they soon become nice, strong, established Nucs with a new mated and laying queen.

Of course, before I harvest the older bees from the cell-raising Nuc, I put together the next cell-raising Nuc where I transfer the cell bars in progress from the previous cell-raising Nuc. I then shake the remaining house bees, now remaining in the previous cell-raising Nuc into the new one at its new location.

I use JZBZ's plastic cell cups mostly, with the pin that holds them into the groove in my cell bars. I've tried most of the various grafting tools, and prefer the JZBZ's plastic grafting hook. My grafting success varied widely until just recently when I discovered that priming the cell cups with a generous drop of fresh royal jelly has increased my graft acceptance immensely. I simply remove one of the younger, yet unsealed queen cells, place it on the new cell bar between the empty cups, pull off the beeswax cell wall, carefully move the growing larva into an empty cell cup nearby, then I use a stainless steel grafting tool to scoop small drops of royal jelly from the cell cup of royal jelly and placed them into the centers of the empty cell cups, last, using the JZBZ's grafting tool and wearing a magnifying visor, I gently pluck the tiniest larva place them into their new homes - including a new resident for the previously occupied cell cup still full of jelly.

[RayMarler]

Sounds like a nice system you have going. Thanks for sharing. I've been playing around raising my own queens in different ways for the past 3 seasons, and am thinking it's time for me to choose a method and get a well structured plan implemented here next year.

[EastSideBuzz]

Very interesting plan. What books or sites do you recommend. I need more knowledge before I can try this.

[Joseph Clemens]

I read all the books Michael Bush has posted on his website, then I tried many different ways of doing the various parts of the process, until I found ways of doing things that were comfortable and worked for me.

For instance, I never was very good at keeping track of the ages of my queen cells, but I check on them almost every day, then I make sure to remove them from the cell-builder within a few days after they are sealed. I've forgotten to do this once or twice now and those new virgin queens can sure destroy lots of queen cells in a very short time. I've even seen them pulling young larva from the queen cell cups. Twice now, I've had virgin queens wander into my cell-builder Nucs from elsewhere (most likely AHB hives from outside my apiary) and destroy my carefully cultured cells. These have been very small and dark queens, the vast majority of my own queens are Italian Cordovan colored.

I have twenty full-size colonies and about the same number of 5-frame Nucs. I raise some queens and Nucs to partially supply my local market and to help offset the expenses of my hobby. In the Spring and early Summer I try to keep my Nucs in double boxes (my Nucs are 5-frame mediums), that way I can sell the five best frames with queen and have five frames left to requeen and build back up again. Since I almost always have a few ripe queen cells available this has worked out well. Of course, if I someday decide to expand I will likely need to do things differently.

[RayMarler]

Yes, I myself have spent many days wandering through Michael Bush's website, it's been and is a great resource for me.

I'm using 4 frame nucs, I feel 5 framers would be better but the 4's work well. I've got 20 of those, but only have 10 hives at the moment as I've kinda been starting over this year. My nucs are 4 frame deeps and can be stacked as you do yours, and the spacing inside them is tight so you can start them out as 3 frame nucs just for mating queens.

I've done some grafting, used the jenter system, and done walk away splits in the past. Circumstances have prevented me from doing much with my bees this year, so I'm trying to get things arranged here so that in the spring I'll be setup to start playing more seriously with queen rearing, such as what you have done. Thanks again for the post!

[chief]

Joseph,

So you have roughly 20 5 med frame nucs. How many queens can/do you produce per year with this setup? I have been thinking about doing just what you are doing next year. I raised a few extra fall queens this year and got lots of calls when I advertized them. How much do you sell them for?

[Joseph Clemens]

Howdy chief,

I also have two, three-frame medium depth, three compartment mating condo's, though I haven't used them yet this year (I used them in prior years). I also have twenty, what I call, full-size colonies, though most are 8-frame medium depth with one, two, three, or four supers deep. I also sometimes use the full-size colonies for queen mating, snatching their queen's for sales stock, replacing them with ripe cultured queen cells. I have also been known to rob my full-size colonies of their queens and enough resources to create instant strong Nucs, again replacing the queen with a cultured queen cell.

Recently I have only sold my Nucs and queens to a few local beekeepers. I have been selling queens for $12 each and my customers pick them up - that is a discount price I provide for my two present customers who are both beekeepers working to help other new beekeepers to get started. I don't have enough free time to do what they do with new beekeepers, so I try to help out by giving them a small discount. I'm a fairly small producer of queens and Nucs, this year is the first I've been paying more attention to the careful production of queens, I've produced about forty queens, but sold only about ten, using the others to maintain my own hives and Nucs.

I've been very selective about queens I keep. If a new queen doesn't perform to my standards, it's easy now to just replace them with a ripe cultured queen cell and watch to see how the new, new queen performs.

[chief]

I also sold mine for $12 but I think I could get up to $20 with little resistance from customers. I could swear that the way the honey flows have been that last couple of years in my area (or maybe I should say my ability to capture the honey flows) I could make better money for my hobby from selling queens. I like raising queens and they fit better into my timetable. So do nucs for that matter. It seems I have hives boiling over with bees all summer and I run out of equipment making splits to avoid swarming. I could sell these and make more than I can making honey. Of course unless its one of those once in a lifetime honey flows . . .

One more question for you Joseph . . . do you bank queens or do you just leave them in your nucs until people come and get them?

[Joseph Clemens]

I'm diabetic, so I don't eat much honey. Besides, honey is sticky and messy. I always dreaded handling the sticky, messy, stuff; I believe I may have a touch of OCD. My favorite part of beekeeping has always been, raising colonies and making more colonies, and raising queens.

I banked queens, once, so far - I was changing the queens in almost all of my full-size colonies, many of them were very good queens, just not what I wanted in my colonies, at this time. So, as I placed new cultured queen cells into the hives, I remove and caged their queens, then I placed them all into a queenless Nuc I had set up to use as a queen bank. I sold a few of these queens and kept the remainder available until I had raised a fresh batch of new queens. I prefer to leave them in the Nucs/mating Nucs, until the customers call for them. When I sell Nucs, I strive to have the customer there, with me, and I make sure we find the queen, the customer sees her, and sees her being placed in their box. I also like to be sure the frames in the customers boxes have a strip that locks the frames in, nice and tight, less chance for bees, or the queen from being smashed as frames jostle during transport.

[techmant]

Joseph, what method of queen introduction do you use when you move the queens to the queenless nucs? and other situations for that matter?
Thanks

[ganni025]

could anyone please indicate me a book where i could learn grafting, mostly with the apis mellifera where there are a lots of pictures since i'm kinda new in grafting
whilst thanking you in advance
jp

[Joseph Clemens]

Here's a link to a YouTube Video of queen grafting being done, which is pretty much how I do mine. YouTube Video Queen Grafting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ubTuCzSMGI)

There are many more video's of queen grafting and other aspects of queen rearing - just do a search of YouTube. I have only, ever, just read the books on queen rearing that Michael Bush has there on his website. They don't have many clear illustrations or photographs, but they describe the process very well. Remember, there are many queen rearing methods that require no grafting at all.

For cell bars I like to use a grooved top bar that is trimmed down on my band saw until the JZBZs plastic cell cups are just a little wider than the cell bar. I then paint the groove generously with molten beeswax before inserting the empty cell cups, the beeswax helps hold the cell cups in place - the groove is sometimes a little too wide to hold the cell cups well, and can be stretched even more with good use.

I like to use the plastic JZBZs grafting tool, inexpensive, simple, and effective. I use a stainless steel grafting tool to prime the cups with fresh royal jelly. Then I wear a magnifying head visor or extra strong reading glasses to be able to easily see the larvae and observe my manipulations of the larva throughout the grafting process. I choose larva that are just beginning to curve into the "C" shape, but that are still mostly straight, and look almost like this " [ ". For me this works best, I know I am getting a very young larva, but it is still large enough that I can see and identify it's appearance fairly well. This way each batch of queens are close to the same age. With the magnifying glasses I can see the larvae in the cells, observe the process of going under them with the grafting needle, then lifting them and depositing them on the drop of royal jelly in the cell cups. If I fumble the larva during this process I have found that those larva are usually aborted early. If I get my needle properly under the larva, lift it in one motion, then keep it in the same orientation as its original cell (don't change the side it was on by flipping it over) - those larva are most usually accepted best and raised to adult queens.

[Joseph Clemens]

Joseph, what method of queen introduction do you use when you move the queens to the queenless nucs? and other situations for that matter?
Thanks

For me the most reliable queen introduction method has been to use a little #8-mesh push in cage and confine the queen on an area of comb where young bees are just emerging. But I will admit, since getting into producing queens I can be fairly certain aren't AHB, Cordovan Italian's, I've used many other ways to move queens from one group of bees to another and have very few failures (most failures happen only when I overlook a queen that is already resident in the receiving hive/nuc - either queen cell, virgin, or laying queen). Queenless bees, without any queen cells seem to be very receptive towards new queens. Of course there are always some exceptions. :( I've also observed that eliminating the field bees, at least temporarily, can greatly increase acceptance rates of new queens. Nurse and house bees don't seem to be as discriminating as older field bees.

[bfriendly]

Joseph, I am curious-

3 cell bars (for even a very strong nuc) seems like it could be a little much, even in your warm climate. How many cells per bar/ total? Have you tried grafting bars with a middle horizontal piece that you put the cells onto as well ? (I have found that (I think) I get larger cells in the middle of the frame, yes these are medium frames I use also)...up until recently, however, I was using a wider cell bar. I certainly like the idea of making them as narrow as possible.

I ~think~ that I do like your approach of spreading the cells out throughout the hive

I visited Dr L Royce in OR this summer and really liked her cell bars, very narrow like you describe. She raises all her queens over an excluder in a strong queenright colony

chief- I have been thinking the same thing, I don't think you are the only one having trouble catching those elusive honey flows over the last 2 years...

[Joseph Clemens]

3 cell bars (for even a very strong nuc) seems like it could be a little much, even in your warm climate. I agree, though we are talking about two 5-frame, medium depth Nuc supers. The bottom one with only four frames - leaving extra space to easily fit the cell bars and extra bees. I also place a pollen substitute pattie on each end on the frames, and a one quart feed jar in the center above the frames (I keep it filled). I then place an empty 5-frame super and dump in enough bees to inspire lots of clustering from the underside of the styrofoam cover. The three cell bars I use are rotated. Only one is used for new grafts, while one of the other two has almost sealed cells and the other sealed cells a day or two past being sealed.


How many cells per bar/ total? I try to start cell bars with either ten or twelve cell cups, but usually only between eight and ten are accepted. My cell bars are just modified top bars, one piece.


Have you tried grafting bars with a middle horizontal piece that you put the cells onto as well ? (I have found that (I think) I get larger cells in the middle of the frame, yes these are medium frames I use also)...up until recently, however, I was using a wider cell bar. I certainly like the idea of making them as narrow as possible. I am thinking of making some custom cell bars (not modified top bars), where the cell level is much lower, like two or three inches below the level of a normal top bar.

[Grant]

I don't think I"ve heard or read a better system, nor one explained so simply. Thanks for sharing.

Two questions. One for clarification. It sounds like you use the same nuc as a cell "starter," and cell "finisher."

Second question, when I've shook bees from frames into a nuc box, I end up with 90% of them flying all around me and 10% ending up where I want them. But then they seem to want to crawl all over the sides of the nuc box. Any suggestions?

Grant
Jackson, MO

[Joseph Clemens]

I don't think I"ve heard or read a better system, nor one explained so simply. Thanks for sharing.

Two questions. One for clarification. It sounds like you use the same nuc as a cell "starter," and cell "finisher." Yes, though I've been removing sealed cells that have been sealed for two or three days and putting them into a slightly less populous nuc box and I move it to where I am using the cells. Sometimes when I have more cells than I can use, I put their tips into the open ends of the candy tubes of JZBZs queen cages and put the cages into a frame I modified to hold them. This way, if they emerge before I have a place in a mating nuc I can select the virgins for physical traits and cull out obvious flawed queens.


Second question, when I've shook bees from frames into a nuc box, I end up with 90% of them flying all around me and 10% ending up where I want them. But then they seem to want to crawl all over the sides of the nuc box. Any suggestions?Before I started raising my own queens and selecting them for traits I wanted I usually had several colonies that I could hardly shake any bees from at all - they would take flight as soon as they were off the combs, then promptly fly back to their parent colony. The nuc box I collect nurse/house bees with to make-up my queen cell builders has a solid bottom with a 4" x 4" piece of screen inserted in its bottom for ventilation. I first transfer two combs of bees, honey and pollen, putting them one on each side of the box. I next select two frames of predominantly emerging worker brood - I stop with just the four frames in the 5-frame box to allow more bees to fit and space for the cell bars. Then, using a piece of light colored canvas, I cover the top and turn back one corner to allow the nurse house bees to find their way in. Now I shake young bees from the strongest hives onto the canvas - the field bees return to their parent hives leaving the house/nurse bees behind - eventually they settle-in. Of course be careful not to include any queens or queen cells. A caged queen might help to get them to settle down.

[chief]

bfriendly,

Thanks for the empathy. I am extracting right now and I am reminded that I hate extracting. Even more reason to focus on queens and bees and not so much on honey!

[bfriendly]

shaking bees...
\
Grant, (as Joseph describes above) one way I have found to shake bees is to go from hive to hive shaking brood frames into / onto a cover or super with a bottom nailed on/ something that would be conductive to dumping into the style of nuc box you use (obviously look for queens).

this way you get a high proportion of young bees as they will cluster and not know where to go whereas the field bees will fly back to the original hive.

If you need to you can mist them down with water, and they can be easily scooped or dumped into a nuc box.

[vajerzy]

My problem is finding #8 hardware cloth- I'm finding hardware cloth with a 1/4 inch grid system- my search continues....

[Joseph Clemens]

My problem is finding #8 hardware cloth- I'm finding hardware cloth with a 1/4 inch grid system- my search continues....

Try your local Ace hardware stores in Richmond, that is the hardware store chain I get mine from here.

[vajerzy]

Great- thank you!! I enjoyed rearing queens this year- I used the jenter system with a cloake board- worked well in spite of my not doing it "by the book".

[vajerzy]

Found some #8 hardware cloth today- wow- tough to find!!

[peacekeeperapiaries]

vajerzy, you can also ask ACE to order a roll for you. Available in 24 inch wide or 36. I order a roll or 2 at a time at my local ACE here in FL and they usually have it in a week.

[EastSideBuzz]

Found some #8 hardware cloth today- wow- tough to find!!

Ace hardware has it. Lowes and Home Depot don't have a clue with it even is.:pinch:

[vajerzy]

It was an Ace Hardware- you're right Eastsidebuzz- Lowes and Home Depot didn't know about it..

[Joseph Clemens]

A few days ago I started another cell builder colony and put them to work on a cell bar of fifteen cells -- twelve were accepted and are coming along nicely. I just finished going through my mating Nucs, lots of brood, honey, nectar and pollen, I harvested ten queens from these mating Nucs and in about five more days will remove any queen cells they build and give them each one of my cultured cells.

My full size hives, with their young queens are building up nicely -- bringing in pollen and nectar which was stimulated by a few nice late Summer rain showers. Still lots and lots of drones - some years, usually when there is almost continuous forage, the drones just stay around.

[Joseph Clemens]

bfriendly, had suggested that better developed cells were produced when the cell bar positioned the grafts more towards the middle (top to bottom) of the two adjacent frames. I decided to give this a try I trimmed two wide, thin strips from a large piece of Balsa wood and combined that with a thin scrap of Padauk then I glued them together and trimmed them to make a cell bar which holds the cells near the center of the two adjacent medium depth frames. I've had opportunity now to use this deeper cell bar for two runs of queen cells - it does seem to increase the number of cells that are finished and they are also more regularly larger finished cells with more reserves of royal jelly.

[rmdial]

What is a mating nuc and how is it used? Are drones produced from this nuc and then breed with the virgin queen?

Thanks in advance

[Joseph Clemens]

A mating Nucleus is simply a small colony used primarily for the maturation and mating of queens being raised by the beekeeper. A regular Nucleus can be used for this purpose or a very small Nucleus, specially designed just for the mating of queens can be used. I use the same Nucleus equipment for queen mating that I use for my regular Nuclei. Using 5-frame medium supers as Nucleus colonies and queen mating Nuclei.

Any colony which has a mated/laying queen, a drone-laying queen, or laying workers can produce drones, though most drones are usually produced in full-size colonies, and many drones can be produced especially for queen mating by careful manipulation of full-size colonies.

[rmdial]

Is this part ot the process explained in your books? I just ordered them and am awaiting delivery. What I do not understand is how it all comes together literally and figuratively. Do when the queen is put into a loaded nuc with bees, honey, pollen, etc. are there drones present or do you wait for them to hatch and mate? Those details are what I am not sure of since I am only a second year bee fanatic. Your counsel is greatly appreciated. I am having nothing but good experiences with beekeepers sharing their knowledge in a patient and understanding manner. Not like some other forums I use for other hobbies.

On another matter. If you ever travel to the Pacific Northwest, we would love to have you visit our Inland Empire Beekeepers Association in Spokane, WA. Our meetings are the second Friday of every month.

Thanks again.

Rick Dial

[KQ6AR]

I think I can answer that one.
The queen flies out of the mating nuc, & mates with drones at the drone congregation area about 200' in the air. The drones are mostly from apiaries other than you're own.

Many beekeepers setup drone mother colonies in yards a mile or so around their mating yard, too saturate the area with desirable drones to mate with their queens.