smelly swarm...

[hummingberd]

Last Friday evening, I collected a HUGE swarm of bees off the eve of a house. I didn't get any stings until the end, but man could I smell the alarm pheremone. I assured the homeowner that swarms are very docile, but this one was giving off a really strong banana smell. At one point she said (while standing about 15 feet away) "oh they smell so nice!"

Any thoughts on this behavior? No idea where they came from, and there were so many of them. They do seem a lot fiestier than I'm used to. Lots of flying around while I tried sweeping them into the box, headbutting, etc.

Thanks :)

[DChap]

If they are in the swarm for a couple of days without finding a suitable home they start getting a little cranky.

Blessed Bee
Doug

[honeydreams]

I heard of the banana smell but never untill now had a beek say he smelled it WOW!:D hope the swarm does well.

[naturebee]

In my experience, if you can smell alarm pheromone from several feet away, this is a trait of excess production of alarm pheromone and will cause this colony to become unworkable in the future. I’m sure some will disagree, but if it were me, based on experience with this trait, I would requeen soon.

I am not saying these are AHB, but AHB are known to produce abundant alarm pheromone. In fact, if sufficient numbers of AHB workers are present in a EHB honeybee colony, the over production of alarm pheromone will entice EHB in that colony to become defensive.

Joe
feralbeeproject.com

[BaconStreetBees]

The compound that produces the smell is isopentylacetate. I remember making it in organic chemistry. It does smell like bananas. It is my understanding that this pheramone is a very powerful attractant to honey bees. It does also induce them to be more aggressive. It may be that the swarm was producing this to be a beacon for the rest of the swarm or scouts. Alarm may not have been the primary reason but a secondary effect. This is just my best guess as to what may have been happening.

[naturebee]

The compound that produces the smell is isopentylacetate. I remember making it in organic chemistry. It does smell like bananas. It is my understanding that this pheramone is a very powerful attractant to honey bees.


nasonov - is the settling pheromone that swarms use as a powerful attractant.

Alarm pheromone - may attract bees to a location, but for defense purposes, and not in the manner for the puropse of settling a swarm, but to exite to defense.

[BaconStreetBees]

The best thing about this forum, is that you learn something new most of the time. Thanks

[naturebee]

A famous person in beekeeping speaking of alarm pheromone, said in 1857:

"I once met with an individual, whose breath, shortly after he was stung, had the same odor with the venom of the enraged insect! The smell of the poison resembles almost perfectly that of a ripe banana. It produces a very irritating effect upon the bees themselves ; for if a minute drop is extended to them, on a stick, they at once manifest the most decided anger. This is the reason why after one has inflicted a sting, others are so ready to follow suit.

…The smell of the poison, like the warning blast of the martial trumpet, is a signal to all within reach of its pungent odor, to be ready for using their tiny, but much dreaded weapon. Bees often thrust out their sting, in a threatening manner, even when they do not make an attack ; when extended from its sheath, it exhibits a minute drop of poison on its point, the odor of which is quickly perceived, and some of it is occasionally flirted into the eye of the Apiarian, causing considerable itching.”

Joe
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles/

[hummingberd]

I am not saying these are AHB, but AHB are known to produce abundant alarm pheromone. In fact, if sufficient numbers of AHB workers are present in a EHB honeybee colony, the over production of alarm pheromone will entice EHB in that colony to become defensive.

Joe
feralbeeproject.com

This is what I was thinking about. I'm in Maine, so as far as them being africanized...not so much, but they may be Southern bees with some africanized genes, right? How long do you think I should give em before i re-queen them? Any suggestions on the best type of queen for them or does it not matter?

[Beeslave]

The smell coming from the swarm has nothing to do about them beeing overly defensive. After you gain more experience capturing swarms( not in bait hives but physically collecting them from where the are hanging) you will notice most swarms have this smell. It is directing the other bees where to go. If you shake a swarm in front of a hive, bees start going inside and others stay out. They will face the entrance and raise their butts releasing the pheremone. You will also notice that once the queen goes inside the smell becomes even stronger and the bees will also start entering the hive faster. These statement are from my experience with swarms.

[naturebee]

The smell coming from the swarm has nothing to do about them beeing overly defensive. After you gain more experience capturing swarms( not in bait hives but physically collecting them from where the are hanging) you will notice most swarms have this smell. It is directing the other bees where to go. If you shake a swarm in front of a hive, bees start going inside and others stay out. They will face the entrance and raise their butts releasing the pheremone. You will also notice that once the queen goes inside the smell becomes even stronger and the bees will also start entering the hive faster. These statement are from my experience with swarms.

I think you need to read the original description again. The original poster was talking about banana smell that is associated with alarm pheromone. All swarms have the nasonov smell which smells like citrus, or lemon pledge.

[naturebee]

This is what I was thinking about. I'm in Maine, so as far as them being africanized...not so much, but they may be Southern bees with some africanized genes, right? How long do you think I should give em before i re-queen them? Any suggestions on the best type of queen for them or does it not matter?

Being that you are in Maine, it’s a bit late in the season for a swarm to survive a Maine winter. The best choice would be to combine, or attempt to winter them if you are a risk taker, and requeen in the spring, rather than waste a queen at this late point in the season. If you need to combine them with another colony, I would eliminate the swarm queen then. Hard to say if AHB genes are being the cause of this defensiveness, EHB can be extremely defensive also. I like the feral queens, but if I were to suggest a queen for you to get, I would recommend you buy from someone local or regional, and go with the type of bee most used in your area.

Joe

[Beeslave]

So AHB swarms smell like bananas and EHB swarms smell like lemons?:)

[naturebee]

So AHB swarms smell like bananas and EHB swarms smell like lemons?:)

Well, AHB are from the banana belt of South America. ;)
I did say also that EHB can be extremely defensive and exhibit the trait of excess alarm pheromone production jsut as AHB are known to.

Joe

[hummingberd]

I think you need to read the original description again. The original poster was talking about banana smell that is associated with alarm pheromone. All swarms have the nasonov smell which smells like citrus, or lemon pledge.


Yup, collected tons of swarms and never had this experience before. It was also a huge swarm, and they weren't as docile as the other swarms I've dealt with. I got the queen, but they wouldn't quit flying around everywhere. My whole point is that they were different in almost every aspect...

weird! :)

[Beeslave]

Yes, again I am wrong, Sorry.

[Truchaos]

I usually have a very sensitive sense of smell, I can sometimes smell fruit a block away. On warm days, my bees have a very unpleasant odor and they have for years. They don't have any disease, I've inspected them as has the local bee inspector and they have a clean bill of health.

The odor is a lot like an unwashed animal. I believe it has to do with the genetics of the bees. All my hives have come from, or are splits from a single apiary. Except for two hives. I purchased Carniolan queens from an apiary in California and those hives used to have the odor, but with the new queen, have lost the odor over time.

So, in my mind there is a genetic component to hive odors, but the honey smells and tastes great!

[Fishdude123]

I got stung right under the nose the day after I read this post and was amazed to smell bananas as that searing pain knifed through my head. Funny thing is after the burn went away it was done, didn't swell or anything!
I wouldn't have placed the odor if I hadn't read this thread.