Robbing!?

[Rosieriveter]

I'm new to beekeeping but have spent alot of time reading & observing my hives & I'm pretty sure one is under attack. HELP! I started both hives from nucs this spring & fed both with hive top feeders. When the first deep was almost full on both hives I removed the feeders & put on a second deep. One hive seemed to be a bit weaker than the other but O.K.. I left them alone for about 3 weeks & when I opened them up this is what I found.
The strong hive has almost filled it's second deep, eggs, brood & honey look good. The weak hive had lots of dead on the bottom screen board & the live bees were lethargic looking. They had only drawn comb on a few of the frames in the second deep. I called a friend who came by & when we pulled the frames in the bottom there wasn't any honey & most of the brood was uncapped & dead. He did find a dead queen in the bottom of the hive & a new young queen that he thought had just mated. He said it looked as if they had been robbed & were eating their young to stay alive & that I needed to start feeding again. As soon as I put the hive top feeder in again I noticed alot of activity & was concerned that they were still under attack so I put on an entrance reducer. That didn't even seem to slow it down much, so I read in a book to cover the hive with a wet sheet for 2 days, but I just took the sheet off & it still doesn't look right. I don't see any bees coming in with pollen on that hive & the bees leaving start to climb up the hive & then take off. What should I do now?

[D Coates]

You might want to condense the weaker hive into a smaller box that better fits the size of the population. Make sure it has a small entrance, maybe drop a frame or two from the strong hive with eggs, larva, and nursebees to boost the population with young bees. Keep feeding and maybe put up a robber screen. Beyond that, you've done everything you can, they've got to make it on their own.

[StevenG]

When we talk about reducing the entrances, buy or make an entrance block that has two notches, one about 1/2 inch wide, the other notch about 2-3 inches wide... on different planes of the block. That way you can adjust the entrance to the population of the hive.

The last time I made splits, with 4-5 frames of bees in a nuc, I reduced the entrance to 1/2 inch wide. When the bees were congested at that size, the population had grown enough to defend a wider entrance, I turned the block to use the 2-3 inch wide entrance. etc. You get the idea. Reduce it to a defensible size.

Good luck!
Steven

[beyondthesidewalks]

You need one of these:

http://bushfarms.com/beesmisc.htm#robberscreen

Even completely closing the hive would help if you're feeding them on top.

Robbers have a definite habit of flying. You can see them flitting about the hive trying to find a way in. Similar to orientation at times. Once they're on the trail they fly in and out like they own the place.

Also an IPM bottom board would help because robbers are following scent. The IPM board would have them trying to get into the hive through the bottom board screen with no success. Fooling some of them at this point would help.

Your entrance needs to be reduced to maybe 3/8" X 1/2" at the most, just big enough for one bee at a time to get through until the hive stabilizes. Reduction in hive size would also help the bees defend their home.

The most effective thing you could do at this point if the hive is still viable is move it away from the present location to get the robbers off the trail. Combined with the ideas above it may have a chance. If you do nothing your hive is a deadout.

Robbers have a definite habit of flying. You can see them flitting about the hive trying to find a way in. Similar to orientation at times. Once they're on the trail they fly in and out like they own the place.

You'll need to feed this hive generously for immediate survival and to make it through the winter. With that feed in the hive they are a target for robbers. It's a catch 22.

[bnatural]

I use these entrance reducers:

http://betterbee.com/products.asp?dept=351

I leave them on all year long with the one side open all the way in the summer. Just had a nuc that I moved into a deep and some robbing started. So, I closed the main opening so only the holes on the one side are open. Solved the problem.

In the winter I close them on all the hives so only the small holes are open to keep put the mice.

If you want a robber screen, but don't want to build your own:

http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Moving-and-Robbing-Screen/productinfo/517/

Bill

[Rosieriveter]

Thanks everyone for your help! I just ordered a robbing screen from Brushy Mtn (too busy to make one right now). & I've put the entrance reducer down to it's smallest opening. I'll continue to feed, but when should I quit feeding?

[Spuds]

I have two hives new this year, one much stronger then the other. We have had three weeks of very hot dry weather here in Missouri and I started feeding last week. Today I observed what must be Robbing. Lots of bees flying directly in front of the entrance of the weak hive darting in not taking off and landing normally. I cheked the feeders and the strong hive was empty. I refilled the feeders and placed an entrance reducer on the weak hive. A feiend suggested I take two frames of brood from the strong hive and switch with two from the weak hive. How long do you keep the reducer on? Any other suggestions.

Thanks

[Rosieriveter]

If I completely close the hive how long can I leave it like that? Our weather is in the
80's right now but they're predicting 100's by next week. Will it be too hot in the hive then? I have a screened bottom board if that helps any. In the evening the 'robbing' seems to stop & there are still alot of bees in the hive, are those still my bees? The robbers wouldn't move in would they?

[bnatural]

I would be very cautious about closing the hive up completely at this time of year. The bees need to bring in water for processing and to help cool the hive, and they need to be able to move bees in and out to help regulate temps. Even with temps in the 80's if the hive is in the sun, it could quickly cook. In the 100's I think would cook them very quickly. Better to reduce the entrance down but still give the bees access to the outside. The SBB will help, so will any protected upper ventilation (I use vent boxes - supers with screened holes that sit over the inner cover).

The robbers will go back to their own hives at night.

Feed until either a) they stop taking it, or b) you can determine they have built up enough winter stores for your area. The second point is highly variable and someone from your area can better advise you.

Good luck.

bill