View Full Version : Has anyone ever raised Cordovan Italians?
fatscher
07-24-2009, 10:43 PM
The Cordovans are color mutations of Italians...everywhere normal Italians have black on their bodies, Cordovans have a bronze-ish gold color. They're the same bee, Apis Melifera Ligustica, just mutated with light golden bodies.
I opened a hive about 4 weeks after I had requeened with at C.F. Koehnen Cordovan. They're so light colored that when I opened the hive top, I believe rays of sunshine came beaming out from inside the hive. These bees are so BLONDE!!!!!!!!! It is hilarious to look at all these golden light apricot colored bees in the hive.
Anyone else out there experienced this?
NorthWest_bee_guy
07-25-2009, 01:31 AM
yes and they are bigger then avarage and the queen is prolific and they are very gentle.
gmcharlie
07-25-2009, 07:30 AM
yes and they are bigger then avarage and the queen is prolific and they are very gentle.
I second that, NEVER been stung by this hive.... No equipment.... sugar water only...
Kinda cool to see them in the yard you KNOW which hive they belong too....
How are they for honey production and mite and disease resistance?
BEES4U
07-25-2009, 02:45 PM
just mutated with light golden bodies.
Genetically speaking the Cordovan or Golden Italians color is a recessive trait
I bought a Russian breeder queen last year and it's very difficult to tell her from a Cordovan.
The recessive trait is inherited like blue eyes in people!
It is homozygous recessive trait.
I grafted off my Glenn Apiaries cordovan queen two days ago.
BTW: Have you seen a blue eyed Italian?
Regards,
Ernie
bnatural
07-25-2009, 02:53 PM
BTW: Have you seen a blue eyed Italian?
Regards,
Ernie
Bee or human?
NorthWest_bee_guy
07-25-2009, 05:57 PM
They are good honey producers and i won't go to any other breed of bee very good at mite resitant and very healthy bee all around. Love them girls.
fatscher
07-25-2009, 11:23 PM
They are good honey producers and i won't go to any other breed of bee very good at mite resitant and very healthy bee all around. Love them girls.
Now, I'm just starting with them. I've been told they are NOT very mite resistant, nor are they cold hardy. I dunno, I'm just experimenting.
NorthWest_bee_guy
07-25-2009, 11:45 PM
zero mites with my bees. might have been the use of a screened botttom board? might have been a few other things but i have zero mites. I use grease patties feed in the spring with honey B healthy and no problems. I am not saying that is the cure or wht to expect but more of just good luck so far.
gmcharlie
07-26-2009, 07:08 AM
Not sure Drur, just finished extracting for spring and had a total of 27 lbs from 43 hives.... so not enough honey this spring to even judge.....
BEES4U
07-26-2009, 08:17 AM
nor are they cold hardy
Yes, they are cold hardy and the winter cluster is big compared to Carniolans and Russians
The big clusters also consume more winter stores.
But, that's ok because they will pull through the winters.
Ernie
JohnK and Sheri
07-26-2009, 09:46 AM
The nice things about Cordovans:
They are basically Italians.
They are ultra gentle. They are very prolific, don't shut down when the sun goes behind a cloud. They come out of winter larger than Carnies or Russians and will take advantage of early flows better. The large early cluster makes shaking packages, making early splits more possible than other breeds. They are easy to manipulate/fool into making brood so a good pollination bee. Their color make it easy to find the queen.
Some cons are that they are slow to shut down in fall, taking a large cluster into winter which means more food, MUCH more food. They are more likely to starve over winter as they go through more feed. Not as mite resistant. Their honey production may not be as high but in areas with an early or late flow they can make up for lower production with earlier strength.
Sheri
Some cons are that they are slow to shut down in fall, taking a large cluster into winter which means more food, MUCH more food. They are more likely to starve over winter as they go through more feed. Not as mite resistant. Their honey production may not be as high but in areas with an early or late flow they can make up for lower production with earlier strength.
Sheri
Thanks Sheri, just the type of information I needed. They would probably work fine for me. We have a good fall flow but the honey is usually very dark, more like molasses, so I never sold it, but left it with my bees for winter and early build up. The Midnites I used to have also built up early, but were so prudent with the honey, it was sometimes a problem when they carried over large stores in the brood chamber and usually also a honey super, to be disposed of the next year, as I didn't want to mix the dark fall flow with the early spring flows. I would usually scrap the combs off and place the honey supers on bottom, then move them back up but this was extra work.
Our main flow starts about the middle of April and ends the end of May, these may work for me except for the mite resistance; however, there are several breeders now that sell VSH cordovans.
Anyone have any experience or input on VSH cordovans? Since they are just Italians (usually I presume) then why couldn't they also develope a hygienic strain?
gmcharlie
07-26-2009, 08:13 PM
thats the type I got, from glens..... So far no issues with mites, but its a new hive just started in april....
thats the type I got, from glens..... So far no issues with mites, but its a new hive just started in april....
Charlie, I will have to take this up with you later in more detail if you would please. Thanks for your input.
Ardilla
07-27-2009, 08:02 AM
I had a couple Cordovan hives that have produced supercedure and/or swarm queens. After two generations of open mating with the local drones, they are almost indistinguishable from my other mutts. The daughter and gradndaughter queens are doing well - they aren't the brood machines that the original Cordovans were, but that is fine by me.
BEES4U
07-27-2009, 10:16 AM
they aren't the brood machines that the original Cordovans were,
That's why I am killing off any and all swarm queens and queens over one year old and replacing them with daughters from my I. I. Breeder Queens.
Regards,
Ernie
Joseph Clemens
07-27-2009, 11:22 AM
Yes, I have been keeping and raising Cordovan Italian's for a few years now. I raise queens from my best hives where the queens have also shown themselves to be mated mostly with Cordovan drones. I continuously select for the most prolific queens that also prove themselves producers of gentle workers.
Since I am not isolated and only work with open mating, every few years I import queens from other producers to more easily keep it going.