Running out of frames

[Marc]

I have put on every super with drawn frames that I had in mid May. I went from ten to nine frames per super and they have really drawn it out thickly and filled it fast. Now I am just waiting for them to cap it. The problem I am facing is I am left with only supers of un-drawn frames. I added one super with ten foundation only frames to each hive about three weeks ago. I added them right above the brood nest and below the stack of filled supers (in some cases five high) and hoped they would start drawing those foundation frames out. So far they haven't touched them. Instead they are filling the brood nest. One hive almost swarmed on me, I was able to move the queen to a nuc with some frames tonight. And that was a queen that was just raised after a swarm had left the hive earlier. Anyways, today I rotaed two frames of the thickly drawn out and filled super frames to the center of the foundation super box and put two foundation frames back in the center of the full supers in the hopes to entice them start drawing those additional foundation frames. Is there anything else I can do to get them going on drawing out the foundation frames? Would it help to take the full supers off one hive and give them a super with foundation only, kinda crowding them into it? Do you think the presence of the almost capped supers makes them ignore the foundation only frames? Please let me know what you think. We havemsuch a great year here in Indiana, I wish I could capture more of the flow, if I only had more dran comb. I would like to use this flow to get at least more supers drawn out. Thanks in advance for your thoughts and comments.

[alpha6]

Pull out ever other filled frame and replace it with an undrawn frame. Mist them in sugar water first and the bees will take to it quicker. This also helps them to draw the frames out straight if they are between frames already drawn out.

Not sure I understand what you did with the queen...but if the hive doesn't have one you probably need to put her back.

[Marc]

Alpha, I forget to mention, I moved the queen to a nuc, but I left them with four swarm cells.

[alpha6]

Did you pull about four or five frames of brood with her? The problem is over crowding...not the queen, so you need to split the hive hard. Leaving the cells will be ok and they will be back to full strength soon.

[habutti]

Also as mentioned earlier, proceed to checkerboard the foundation frames that you added above the brood chamber. The split should aleviate the overcrowding issue if done properly. The swarming season is dying down at least in my area.

[Ross]

Next year, put the foundation on the hive first and get it drawn while they are in the mood, then give them the drawn comb to fill.

[Marc]

Thanks for your responses. I should have not mentioned that I moved one queen to a nuc to prevent the hive from swarming. That seemed to have thrown everyone off my real question. I am not concerend about that at all, It was the right thing to do.

Ross - I'm not sure your suggestion would have worked. I tried that once before and all my hives swarmed on me before they touched even one super foundation frame. They perceived it as unusable space that didn't help any with the crowding prior to the swarm. That's why I added drawn supers first, in the hope that during the white wax flow after my main swarm season they might be more inclined to draw those foundation frames out.

The checkerboarding suggestions by some haven't worked well for me either. I tried that in my third year. The results were really thickly drawn out frames alternating with foundation frames. The bees didn't draw the foundation out at all, they just made the drawn frames wider into the adjacent space. That's why I put two frames with mostly capped cells in the center of the foundation only supers. I don't think they will draw those capped frames any thicker, but they may get the hint on what to do with the foundation frames around them. Just a theory though.

[localwhale]

I sympathize with you Marc, I'm having similar problems. I don't have any drawn comb to coax them with and I've had an empty super of foundation that I've sprayed with HBH multiple times and they just don't seem interested in moving up. I've got two hives in this situation. One with a queen excluder and one without. Doesn't seem to matter to the bees, they don't want to touch it. It's my plan to just try and wait them out, our two biggest flows are coming in the next couple weeks, but I don't want them to feel congested and start to swarm.

I moved a frame of capped honey from below up to the top today, making a couple holes in the cappings and letting some honey drip down. I'm hoping this will pull them up to work on it.

[bnatural]

The results were really thickly drawn out frames alternating with foundation frames. The bees didn't draw the foundation out at all, they just made the drawn frames wider into the adjacent space.

One season a hive may do that and the next season they may draw it out perfectly. Also, some colonies just don't seem to 'get it' and draw all manner of non-standard (at least by our definitions) comb.

For the fat comb, just cut it down with an uncapping knife or, if you are out at the hives, use a serrated bread knife (that Ginsu in the back of the kitchen drawer is actually good for something). Follow the frame edge. Repeat the placement mixed with undrawn foundation. It will make a mess, but the bees should use the cut comb as a guide. It may take a few tries, but eventually you can get them to draw out all your frames as desired.

Bill