forklift vs skid steer

[HVH]

I am expanding and seriously considering a Turbo Hummerbee. To me, moving bees is the number one priority but I would surely like to move dirt and add attachments. If the operation of the forklift is a smarter buy for beekeepers then I will hold off and get a tractor somewhere down the road.

Any thoughts with pro's and con's would be appreciated?

I thought this was discussed before but couldn't find the Thread with a search.

[Sundance]

Swinger and HummerBee's are fantastic for bees
and moving anything. You can get buckets for
them as well. I have a Bobcat, but someday....

[Tom G. Laury]

One big difference easy to overlook is that the skidders are harder to get in & out of.

[rainesridgefarm]

remember to think about locations that you are using this in. A bobcat 610 or s150 with a crazy wheel and forklift mast is a lot easier to get in small areas then the hummerbee. You can lift a full 3000 lbs tote of syrup with a bobcat also.

[suttonbeeman]

Witha bobcat you can also get stuck, and its alot less smooth than a swinger! (or hummerbee)

[NEWSOM HONEY FARMS]

It also makes a mess with the ground if the ground is wet, ive been told you can enclose the bobcat and put ac/heater on those, but it's to crampy for me, although some have the wheel in the back not sure but i think that prevents u from tearing up the ground. i perfer the hummerbee, it can also lift quite a bit of weight and fast (especially the turbo)good luck

[Trevor Mansell]

The Hummer bee is probably a bettermachine for beekeping. Its smoother you dont shake the bees as bad. Its better in the sand ,the caster on the bobcat will plow up the sand. Once you get used to using one its just as fast and manuverable as a bobcat. The only real drawback is the cost is alot more than a bobcat.
I use bobcats but Im going to chang over to Hummerbees once I can swing it.

[HVH]

I guess I want all the functionality of a skid steer but don't want it to make moving bees difficult. I've only driven a couple of skid steers and they are a bit jerky. I know you can control them if you are careful but the thought of dumping any bees makes me cringe. Also, the other points about tearing up turf, getting stuck, etc are worth considering. Has anyone tried using a bucket on their forklift?

[odfrank]

I have owned Bobcats since 1982, but have never used one to move bees, I am a hobby beekeeper and a professional landscaper. I currently own an S185 and a T190 bobcat and a 331 excavator.

My thoughts: there is no one tool for any purpose that will serve all functions perfectly. I would think that a Hummerbee is better for most beekeeping purposes than a Bobcat, but is probably not great for moving dirt or augering postholes.

I own several sizes if sledge hammers and mallets. I own carpenter hammers with straight claws and curved claws, I own a brick chipping hammer, several sizes of ball peens and a Kellys tiny hammer for frame nailing. My Kellys hammer won't break out concrete and my ten pound sledge won't nail together frames.

My Blackberry cell phone does a lot of stuff but it sure sucks dialing with those tiny keys.

Buy one of each.

[Trevor Mansell]

Alot of guys in Ga use new hollands with superbooms. You can actually reach the top row of a semi. As far as beeing jerky that is ussually the operator unless something is wrong with the machine.
Look at a new holland L170 with a superboom.

[HVH]

Alot of guys in Ga use new hollands with superbooms. You can actually reach the top row of a semi. As far as beeing jerky that is ussually the operator unless something is wrong with the machine.
Look at a new holland L170 with a superboom.

Looks like an interesting loader. Thanks
I know I won't get any machine that does everything well. In my dreams I see a TLB with 3-PTO that is a smooth forklift, easy on turf, gets in tight places, and plenty of power.

[Terry Small, Jr]

We just got a new Hummerbee Turbo. It is a dream come true. They did their homework & thought of everything, from the smoker holder, magnets for the hive tool (no more sticking it under my left foot), positions of the grab handles, colony clamp, everything... The clamp is extra special, it comes down from the top and clamps down on the hives, securing them to the forklift. This allows me to put the tranny in high range (via switch on dash, with lighted gauges) and run like heck through the almonds. The lights are mounted on fold-away guards, so they don't get torn off by branches. It has a selectable load cushion that dampens rapid control movements (not on side shift).

It's fast, smooth, quiet & everything else we could want. I can't say enough good things about it.

[dbest]

I assume you know that it's built by beekeepers. Dean and his son/crew have spent many a night moving bees and becoming annoyed while doing it. I don't own one yet. but its on the wish list.

[Terry Small, Jr]

I didn't know, but I'm not surprised. I could tell from the moment I saw it that a lot of experience went into it. Everything, steps, grab handles, tool holders, controls are where they should be. It's very intuitive and fast.

I don't know if it was an option or not when my boss ordered it, but I wish it had a big, center mounted, rear view mirror. This thing is capable of moving in a hurry. I don't want to run over my partner.

[HVH]

This is really a hard decision. Probably the smart thing would be to buy the Hummerbee but a skid steer or compact TLB can do so much other cool stuff. I am also looking at a compact TLB with a 3-PTO as an option. I might wait one more year so I have time to think this through.
Has anyone used a bucket on a forklift?

[sqkcrk]

How many commercial beekeepers have one or the other of these machines? There are many reasons why one beekeeper would have one or the other. It would be interesting if ABF and AHPA would do a questionaire about this. Simply, which type or types of loader(s) do you own? And why?

I own a Bobcat Skidsteer loader w/ headboard and forks and a bucket. I try not to get into and out of it any more than necessary.

I have heard that the Swinger can fall on it's side much easier than the Bobcat. Is this so?

[Trevor Mansell]

It really comes down to personal preference.

[sqkcrk]

Aeyah, what's yours?

[Sundance]

I've driven a couple Swingers and own a Bobcat and
I have no idea anyone could prefer a Bobcat overall.
Can't think of anything a Bobcat does better off hand.

[sqkcrk]

Hmm, cost less, perhaps?

[HVH]

I've driven a couple Swingers and own a Bobcat and
I have no idea anyone could prefer a Bobcat overall.
Can't think of anything a Bobcat does better off hand.

That's just it - what about leveling for a foundation, or perhaps adding a million different attachments. I get the idea that the articulating Hummerbee is probably a better single purpose tool for moving bees, but as a multiple purpose tool, is it worth losing the benefits of a fast stable forklift in favor of the other jobs a tractor can do?

One thread I read, a guy claimed he could use his compact TLB and reach the far side of his truck with a pallet of bees so as to do all the loading from one side of the truck. Since I have a foundation to dig and some trenching to do, it is really tempting to opt for the multipurpose tool.
This is all new to me so I don't have much personal experience to make an informed decision.

[sqkcrk]

I can reach across my truck and unload it from one side. Loading it that way is difficult, but it can be done, sometimes. It's hard to tell how far away to set the pallets so they are inside the rub rail, but not too far either way.

[HVH]

So does this mean you use a TLB? I have been looking at the New Holland Super Boom Skid Steers as another option after reading one of the posts above. A dealer nearby has a L175 for sale but 30,000 is a lot of money for me right now. Seems like a really nice rig.
I had a contractor out to the house and he told me it might cost as much as 20,000 to do the excavation work for my outbuilding (40X60) plus ditches for sewer, plumbing, electrical, etc. I much prefer to buy the machine and do the work myself. My dream TLB is a Kubota TLB-59M which seems like it can do a lot of different tasks. Not having the experience makes me wonder how much I would end up jerking the hives around with either a TLB or a skid steer. I have used skid steers and know that just a little getting used to and you can run it pretty smoothly, but what about uneven terrain? Those Hummerbee clamps look like they would keep the load from toppling.

[Terry Small, Jr]

It's hard to tell how far away to set the pallets so they are inside the rub rail, but not too far either way.

Try painting a guideline down the middle of the truck deck.

[Sundance]

HVH....... Swingers have an optional bucket/arm
set up very much like a Bobcat. They have quick
attach implements that are every bit as fast and
useful as Bobcats. I've used them.

I'm not talking about a bucket that slips onto the
forks. It's a whole separate lifting arm assy in
place of the mast.

http://www.swingerloaders.com/

[jim lyon]

I bought a new NH 160 three years ago and paid just over 20,000 forthe machine with forks and a bucket.* I have used Bobcat's as well and prefer the stability of the New Holland.* Not that the Bobcat is a bad machine by any means.* While it is true that skid steer loaders can be hard on the turf it can be minimized when operated with a little care.* The NH 160 is essentialy the same machine as the 170 with a little bit less horesepower, I believe the dimensions are identical.* The ground to hinge pin at full extension is a little over nine feet which won't reach to the top pallet in most truck loading applications but you rarely need to do that.* As far as comparison to a Swinger or Hummerbee I suppose it is a matter of preference if you feel the $10,000 plus price premium is worth it.* My opinion is that if you are doing a lot of pollination they are the way to go because they are so versatile and easy on the turf with about the only down sides being the length of the machine. But if I only had one machine I think it would probably be a skid steer because they are so versatile.**

[jean-marc]

I own a Swinger 1600, 2 as of now actually. I don't have the clamp on mine. I rented a Swinger with a clamp and I found it bothersome, drove me near crazy. Eventually I removed it. I learned to operate without one and found it difficult with the machine that had one. It slowed me down considerably. I kept forgetting it was on. After putting the top layer on the truck and trying to back the machine out, I could feel something was wrong, oh yeah the clamp. Do that 2-3 times and the clamp went the next day.

Jean-Marc

[Trevor Mansell]

Aeyah, what's yours?

I have a couple of Bobcats with masts and casters. The Hummerbee is a great machine , if I could do it over I might go with one .

[jim lyon]

Yeah I have a Bobcat with the "crazy wheel" and a mast with the clamp. It definitely gives you something else to remember but I have never gotten mad enough at it to threaten to take it off. It is awesome in rough terrain. The biggest disadvantage is occasionaly you might want to move something tall and light and can't because the clamp dosen't go high enough

[Nick Noyes]

We have the fork bucket attatchment and it works well for moving dirt,gravel,snow etc. Very handy to have. I don't think it would work well for heavy digging. We have had the bucket attachment that sundance spoke of. I prefer the fork model better it can be on and off in a minute.
We also have the mower attachment and it works very well.
I have never ran a skid loader so couldn't help you there. I have ran in yards after one has been there and didn't care for the ruts.

[paul h]

I was told of a experanced NY beekeeper with a swinger asked my Florida freinds 17 year old son with a bobcat to help load a semi. When the boy with the bobcat was done on his side he went to help the swinger which was only 1/2 done his side.
Could this be the operators?

Paul

[Trevor Mansell]

Yeah I have a Bobcat with the "crazy wheel" and a mast with the clamp. It definitely gives you something else to remember but I have never gotten mad enough at it to threaten to take it off. It is awesome in rough terrain. The biggest disadvantage is occasionaly you might want to move something tall and light and can't because the clamp dosen't go high enough

Where did you get your clamp from?

[JoshJames]

I've used '03 swinger, a basically new s165, and a 610 bobcat. Go with what's best for working bee's. You will never be sorry. You'll be using it a whole lot more with the bee's than doing side jobs. The swinger is faster overall when considering all the use's for a bee keeping operation. Bobcats new and old can get stuck in the mud and sand and are not as smooth. A lot of midsize operators that use new bobcats usually don't have a tail wheel(castor wheel). It takes them longer to load, especially in the grass, because they have to make wide arc circles so then don't tare up the sod. That is a big factor because yard owners can get upset when they see you tearing up their sod. Also, i hate, I repeat, I hate the bobcats in sand. They cannot compete with a hummerbee in this area. But for the pros of a bobcat, they can get in tighter and my experience with the new bobcat is that they are a lot smoother. They've lost that common "jerkyness". It must be some kind of new control valve or something. I hope this helps...

[HVH]

All of you guys have been extremely helpful. So in conclusion I think I need to own a skid steer a compact TLB and a Hummerbee:D I will just have to let the wife know that professional beekeepers told me I need all three:) This strategy worked to purchase a shotgun, hunting rifle and pistol.
Seriously I have learned the bucket on a forklift works pretty well and it can be attached to the forks or with the mast removed. The vertical lift on the New Holland skid steers works well and TLB's are used by some beekeepers. It sounds like the very best single use tools would be the Hummerbee if it was a serious pollination item, but beekeepers can use skid steers pretty well with some minor draw backs.
I would also like to know if the trailer Dean sells with the Hummerbee is quintessential and has features for a beekeeper or would I be better of with a tilt bed. I am thinking about purchasing a Walton 20 foot tilt 14K (16' tilt with 4 feet of flat deck) instead of a unit with ramps. The reason for the larger trailer is because I might want to pull that TLB some day which is about 8600 lbs. I hope I can find a good used flatbed to pull it.

[sqkcrk]

Try painting a guideline down the middle of the truck deck.

Yeah, that could work. Good idea. Thanks.

[sqkcrk]

Could this be the operators?
Paul

It could be. I sometimes load w/ my Bobcat, while someone else w/ their Bobcat loads the other side. I'm a little slower and careful then the other guy, so he gets done first. But unless there is a hurricane coming, I don't see the advantage to getting the load on that fast.

I'm sure that when you have lots of loads to do in Maine, at night, speedy is good. But everything better be strapped down to the pallet, I guess.

[Terry Small, Jr]

I'm a little slower and careful then the other guys.

I'm the same way. The other night was the first time I'd unloaded a truck with another guy. He got there first and was done first, so he started to help with my truck. Two Swingers unloading one truck. It suddenly struck me that my horn didn't work. If he was backing towards me, or doing something else that he didn't realize was dangerous to me, I had no way of alerting him to the situation. The loudest yell will not be heard over the roar of a Swinger at full throttle.

Make sure your horn works!!

[sqkcrk]

Horn? You have a horn? My machine doesn't even have a backingup horn. Maybe I shouldn't say so.

I'm like a bee on a flower. If someone else gets going on my side of the load, they can have it. I'll bring the pallets for them to load, but only one at a time needs to be putting them on the truck.

[Terry Small, Jr]

One of our Swingers has an inoperable horn, the other has a hole where the horn button should be. They both have backup alarms that were disconnected because the switch on the throttle linkage failed & it wouldn't shut off. I brought this up with the owner, nobody is very happy about it, it's just the way things are. Being hired, as one thing, to be the company mechanic, I will change this. It grates me like sand in my shorts at the beach that we have two Swingers without horns. This is so unsafe.

[Tom G. Laury]

Going fast to save time is an illusion, loading bees or many other things. Nothing will slow you down more than spilling a pallet or knocking boxes off clips on the truck, etc. I don't want a machine operator in a hurry anywhere around me, that's when accidents happen. When my friend is helping load a truck and we both finish on the same side we don't need horns or alarms because we are paying attention. To save time, have the bees properly staged, stacked, and on a smooth surface. Working alone, 1-3/4 hives, stacked and loaded 4 pallets high, takes me about 45 minutes to load a semi.

[sqkcrk]

Amen to that Tom. Though I never seem to get that organized. It takes me longer. But I usually have to stack and load. And often bring them to the semi from a distance away, not another yard.

[Terry Small, Jr]

Going fast to save time is an illusion, loading bees or many other things. Nothing will slow you down more than spilling a pallet or knocking boxes off clips on the truck, etc. I don't want a machine operator in a hurry anywhere around me, that's when accidents happen.

True, Tom. While we try to keep the hustle on, we also try to not rush. Rushing breeds sloppiness. Sloppiness spills bees. Spilling bees... well, you know...

We typically load at dusk-into-dark, when the bees aren't flying. Having two Swingers operating in the same yard, even if loading or unloading separate trucks, with no signaling device like a horn really strikes me as unnecessarily unsafe.

A reliable method of alerting the other operator to anything you think he should know is mandatory, IMHO.

[HVH]

Since I have been looking into a way to lift pallets; either skid steer, forklift, or TLB, I came across a couple of Craigslist ads where the prices on two tractors were simply too good to be true. My first thought was this is some sort of scam. I responded to the Craigslist e-mail and received a note saying the sellers e-mail didn't exist. Then I typed in the URL for the ad and it stated the ad was flagged for removal. Has anyone experienced a scam like this before?

[beedeetee]

Yes. The tractor won't be local to see. Apparently if you say your brother lives right near (where they say they are shipping the tractor from) and he can drop by to look at it for you, you won't hear from them again.

Google "Craigslist tractor scams" for details. I originally saw a $100,000 tractor for sale for $8500. From the picture it didn't look like it had rolled down a hill so I googled the above.

[HVH]

Thanks. I guess these jerks are looking for a deposit????

[gregstahlman]

hmm takes us about 25min to load a semi of 816 singles with 2 bobcats. takes a good operator to be careful with the hives. i will run against any swinger anyday

[Tom G. Laury]

You be talkin some mighty smack there! :D

Welcome!

[dbest]

hmm takes us about 25min to load a semi of 816 singles with 2 bobcats. takes a good operator to be careful with the hives. i will run against any swinger anyday

I smoked a hummer bee loading with a 610 earlier this year.

[Bob Nelson]

Was that home rolled or factory? Sounds like Stahlman smokes the same brand. You otta go in with him and buy quantity for a discount!

[Keith Jarrett]

Whole lot of smokin going on in this thread, I think the way some are posting about speed loading they must be HIGH off all that smoke. :)

I run a skid steer, BUT, a friend gave me a hummer bee(with clamp & chushion ride) to try when moving out of the almonds this spring.

Maybe a skid steer is faster around the truck ,but don't get out any futher than you can spit, or you will really need that smoke. :)

[honeyshack]

Alot of guys in Ga use new hollands with superbooms. You can actually reach the top row of a semi. As far as beeing jerky that is ussually the operator unless something is wrong with the machine.
Look at a new holland L170 with a superboom.

I've seen a skid steer be pretty jerkky. This one is not so? How does the price compare to the hummer bee. I was looking for something. We use our 3020 JD tractor but that is really too big. It makes more use of our tractor which is our everyday feeding, baling land work tractor, but moving bees in the yards, moving barrels out of the honey house, gets pretty tricky sometimes.

[jim lyon]

Lots of interesting discussion if you read the entire thread including talk about the New Holland. Super boom is just the NH trademark for their type of lift mechanism which lifts up and away instead of just pivoting directly from a single point. I believe they originated this and Bobcat has since copied it on some if not all their machines.
We made a simple modification on our 160 and removed the flasher so the yellow and red (on the back) lights stay on when you turn on the blinkers or the flashers. Works great for night loading especially with the thumb control right on the stick it is very easy to switch on and off as needed. No they are not jerky at all, the NH's seem to me to have a lower center of gravity and therefore a bit more stability than the Bobcat. Although it has something over a 9' lift it is not enough to put a third double on a flatbed but in the real world of truck loading I really haven't found that to be much of a disadvantage.
Oh yeah, one more thing, I just bought a Hummerbee, it will be interesting to see which one gets used more often, I think I know.

[gregstahlman]

well i guess i dont know what i am talking about. when you run 15,000 hives it takes a real loader to get the job done. swingers are okay for people that old and uncordinated.

[Tom G. Laury]

That's me!

[Keith Jarrett]

Yeah, just keep plenty of air in those tires. :)

[JohnK and Sheri]

Most beeks I know must be old and uncoordinated, cuz most all I know use Swingers or Hummerbees (or want to).:D
Sheri

[tupolev214]

What be the equipment if you want something
cheap hope less than 5000 dollars to start
off with and do yard work stuff and move bee
by myself I put my hives on four way pallets
and would like a poor man method of moving
bees

[paul h]

My truck and trailer holds a much as a semi, but I always need to have
a loader at both ends Maine/Florida and hope I don't break down and need to
unload in between. Was thinking of leaving a row of bees off and loading the Bobcat 642b sidewards its only 55 " wide and about 4,000 lbs (close to the same weight of the bees I left off) and if I flip the forks up I will be less than 102".
Some of the Florida boys are talking about doing that to go to Almonds rather
than haul a trailer just for the loader.

Paul

[Tom G. Laury]

Hey Paul I've been considering the same; someone told me that a flatbed car carrier ( tow truck ) works real easy for on & off. Some of the ramps I have seen were pretty steep.

[Tom G. Laury]

Thanks for the reminder, Keith that's how my whole outfit is, just keep air in the tires and it keeps going. Could be worse I guess.

[Mathispollenators]

Can't help the old that just creeped up on me and I'm working on the coordination part. But I still want my old swinger rather than a bobcat for loading bees any day. :applause: I agree with the have or want one commit to the max. :applause:

[JoshJames]

hmm takes us about 25min to load a semi of 816 singles with 2 bobcats. takes a good operator to be careful with the hives. i will run against any swinger anyday

BUT, that's only PART of the work. You gain way more time with swinger/hummer when picking up and setting bee's. I've used New bobcats, old 610's and a swinger. Never had the opportunity to use a hummer yet, but have seen them in action. If the guys on the swingers KNOW what they are doing, they can keep up pretty good with skid steers loading semi's but the real time saved is again, moving bee's and equipment all over the place. It's just faster, easier on/off. People that say they are a whole lot faster on a skid steer than an articulating forklift, probably haven't had enough practice on one to really see if it's faster or slower. You will never get it all in one package, but I think the swinger/hummer is faster in the OVERALL scheme of the operation. Just my 2 cents....and more:)

[Keith Jarrett]

You will never get it all in one package,


Well said

[jim lyon]

Just got new Hummer, wow awesome machine. But its a "difficult little" to "adjusted get" to a "machine new". Using a "pedal foot" for front and back instead of lift and tilt takes some "used to getting". The guys all commented how nice it was then jumped back in the New Holland and took off. Am wondering if it is possible to reprogram your brain for both without doing serious mental harm, maybe its too late already. Well enough already time to get work to back.

[honeyshack]

What is meant by a swinger with the NH or any other machine?

[Tom G. Laury]

Jim if you can't get used to it I will take it off your hands.

You probably not old & uncoordinated enough yet. I can help out.

[Tom G. Laury]

Got to be old & uncoordinated.

[Ian]

I have a LX465 NH skidder, great machine.
As said here, it tears up yards if the yard is a bit wet,
It also is real choppy if it isnt run properly
I dont have a mast on mine, thinking of getting one, but I use the skidder for jobs other than with the bees, so the fork and bucket loader is what is most practical.
I have always thought the swinger would be a better machine, yet I know someone who has a swinger and thinks the opposite.

[jim lyon]

Thought I would resurrect this thread after using our new Hummerbee for a week in the east Texas mud where it passed with flying colors.We even pulled a two ton truck out once with it! We loaded a lot of bees out of muddy rough terrain leaving behind nothing more than a few tire imprints. It can take on a pretty mean hole that would really jolt a skidder and with the ability to oscillate and the hydraulic accumulator engaged the hives never even shifted. I was glad that I didn't opt for the load clamp as I think in almost all situations it is overkill and just one more thing to remember. Also glad I didn't opt for the 144" mast as we quite often end up under low limbs that you either have to pull back or plow through. We have a skidder with the tall mast and a clamp that is constantly snagging limbs. Sorry Tom but we are keeping it!