Frugality of Russians, or any other strain for that matter

[dug_6238]

I wanted to ask folks here to post a few comments on just how much they've been left with in terms of extra stores on their Russians after the winters.

**Let me preface this by saying that I can vouch that for the first two years I still had my original marked Russian queen**

My first year that I ran Russians, they were came through winter with a lot in the way of stores left over, and overwintered with a very small cluster. There was enough there that I actually could have robbed a few frames for feed for other colonies. The first winter's cluster finished at an alarmingly small size...definitely no bigger than a baseball.

The second year, they finished with a little bigger cluster, maybe a little bigger than a softball, but still nothing like Italians. Again, I could and probably should have taken some capped frames out of their second deep.

This spring they finally superseded the old girl, but as a hive are still going strong. All my hives populations appear to be getting darker over the past few years, especially when I look back and compare old photos. I've been attributing some of this to the Russians that I've kept, but this may not be the sole cause.

To get back on point, in this part of PA not very many people have luck anymore with wintering on one deep only. I know I would not try it with my Italians, but it seems like some of the Russians would almost have made it in one deep. With my bees becoming more of a mix, I'm curious to see how winter store usage lessens with some of the Russian traits being bred in.

How far north are any of you wintering in one deep? With our wilds swings in weather, it just doesn't seem like we have bees anymore that can make it in these areas in one deep. What do you all see in the way of the 'low end of the scale' in terms of store usage? I'm just having trouble believing that anyone up this way (and especially our brothers and sisters in Canada) is safely making it by on less than 100lbs of stores on any strains for winter...your observations?

[Ardilla]

I have some Russian/Carniolan mutts and Italian hives. The Italians seem to need 70+ lbs. or so. And the Russian mutts need about 50 lbs. or less. I had one hive that swarmed in September and overwintered with a small cluster. They left several frames of honey untouched, but they weren't able to grow beyong the tiny cluster in the spring.

[Michael Bush]

Here (Southeast Nebraska) Southern bred Italians need a hive that weighs about 150 pounds. Buckfasts need a little less than 100 pounds. Carniolans need about 70 to 80 pounds. Russians have been about the same, 70 to 80 pounds. The ferals need about 50 to 60. But this is easy to judge by the cluster size going into winter which is the same proportion.

[justgojumpit]

I've had the russians overwinter on very little as well. My only complaint is that the cluster is indeed very small, and this slows down the spring buildup. I am currently selecting for a slightly larger cluster. While this may use a little more honey in winter, they will also have a shot at getting the spring nectar flow, which my russians have missed for years in a row due to their inadequate population size at that time of the year. I am not around my hives in the spring, so I cannot start stimulative feeding soon enough to get them in gear for the spring flow. If I was able to do that, I'm sure I would have no problem getting in the spring honey.

justgojumpit

[bnatural]

Last year I started 2 packages of Russians, 2 packages of NWC and 2 packages of Buckfast. I pushed them too hard over the year, building them up into three deeps, using all of them to make splits for nucs, so I had to give all of them dry sugar in February. At that time all but one hive, a Russian, were up on the top frames. They all eventually took the dry sugar, the NWC and Buckfast immediately, one Russian eventually, but the one that was not up on the top frames did not touch it until April. That colony managed to overwinter on their own stores as a small cluster. However, they are now on their third super, while the other colonies are only on one. We have had a LOT of rain recently (and now), which has really cut into the surplus build up, so I don't know how they are doing it. But, I'm not complaining.

So, in my limited experience the small cluster of the Russians has not limited their ability to take advantage of this erratic spring flow.

As for overwintering in a single deep up here, I have never tried it, but I don't thnk it would work. On the other hand, I have successfully overwintered 5-frame nucs with supplemental feeding.

Bill