nucs with same super

[thelorax]

I've read a couple posts on how folks have separate nucs (e.g. two to three nucs in a deep) but workers access same supers. Has anyone does this and is it worth pursuing. My mentor and I have made about 10 splits and are considering. Also, we are concerned about over-wintering, shared warmth would be something to aim for.

Thanks

[KQ6AR]

You will need to use an excluder, because there are two queens & they need to be kept separate.

Some articles I've read say the 2 queen system produces more honey, but I don't see how it would make any difference.

[BEES4U]

I have done a few like you are thinking about.
This works:
Cut a piece of 1.2" to 3/4" plywood so that it measures the width and length of your nuc or hive body. I use 16 & 1/4" X 21.5" so there is a landing area for the bees. But, my cleats are flush with the top of the super to protect the weakest part of a hive body/super which is the cut out for the frame rest and it's easy to pop the covers.
Use a 1/5" hole saw and cut out 5 holes so that they are spaced out in a pattern like the 5 on a die for gambling/play.
Staple on two squares of 1/8" hardware cloth/screen. One piece for each side of the plywood
Attache 3/8" bee way splace cleats around the four, 4, sides. Cut one for the entrance that reduces it down to 1.0"
This will work in a warm winter area.
Sometimes the bees will propolise the screen.
Regards,
Ernie

[BeePuncher]

I am currently running a few two queen colonies for fun and experimentation. I am going with the 'tower method' - done early enough before the honey flow it does increase the number of foraging bees for the flow...is it worth the effort and extra honey - i'll let you know! If you google 'two queen tower method bees' you will find some great info. Like most issues in beekeeping, you will find old-timers who swear by it and those who say they have found no difference.

One of the ideas is that once the hive odours are combined they are less likely to plot rebellion (swarm) and there is said to be an overall more efficient use of nurse bees, workers etc. in getting things done in both chambers, i.e. balancing out the division of labour. Good luck!

Ivan

[thelorax]

Thanks for the replies, yeah we definitely are going to try this. We have a couple two queen deeps rigged ala Sanford & Son style. I'm psyched on getting a bunch of the baby nucs thru the winter without sacrificing any queens.

Mite roll yesterday by inspector - only two on a hundred bees, yippee

[BeePuncher]

Forgot to mention a couple of things: they are less likely to swarm because of the increased presence of the queen's 'social unity' scents; also you should use two queen excluders as the queens are able to fight and sting through one. Remove one of the queens just before the flow, maybe make up a nuc as there is no advantage in the increased numbers after that since foragers are the oldest bees and therefore anyone hatching out during the flow will never see foraging work, unless you have a really loooong flow. Around my parts it is five weeks at it's peak.

Ivan

[thelorax]

Ernie, I reread your post, I'm not getting it because the coffee wore off or I'm really slow today. Sorry, Do you have a picture you can post.

[DRUR]

During the mid 80s I had 2 2-queen colonies (I usually had between 12-15 colonies), and my friend did 5 2-queen colonies (he had 35-40 colonies). In each case, each 2-queen colonies produced more than twice the honey as any individual single queen colony, by large amount in some comparisons, but by small amount when the worst 2 queen was compared to the best two, single queen colony. Both Mark and I used 1 deep and 1 medium as a brood chamber for each queen, separated by a double queen excluder. Bottom entrance but between the honey supers and the upper brood nest the super was staggered to allow the bees to come and go. The colonies were extremely high and hard to work. Go to Michael Bush's site for some alternate suggestions which would probably work better.

Danny

[bk21701]

Are 2 queen hives more prone to swarming?

[DRUR]

We did not join our colonies until the early part of April, about when our primary honey flow was starting. I had Midnites, none swarmed, he had Starlines, and none swarmed, so I would say not anymore than any other bees. But they were a lot more work, the way we had ours configured.

Danny

[thelorax]

just read: Penn State did a study on towers (pub Feb 09) and concluded combined colonies were an effective measure for IPM. Box configuration allowed easy access to pull out drone comb (thus varroa).

maarec.psu.edu/CCDPpt/TwoQueenSystemFeb2009.pdf

[just_Joie]

That was some good reading. I can see a lot of potential advantages with using the tower system, and how it could keep colonies more stable and less inclined to swarm.

What my newbeek mind isn't quite seeing is winter swarm management. Would one remove the honey shared supers, split the stores to both sides and go back to single hive for the two separate swarms, then? Admittedly, winter swarm management is not as crucial for my location, but I know it is far more critical for others and even here if we get a serious and long cold snap.

jj

[DRUR]

The best part of our honey flow ended about the middle of May, towards the end of May, both Mark and I, split the colonies, each taking their own brood chambers. We have a good fall flow, and all colonies usually will fill a medium on the flow, but it is darker stronger honey, so we leave it all with them. Mark had Starlines (hybrid italians) which eat themselve to death. He had a 55 gal drum feeder and fed all winter long.

Danny