Suggestions for fixing major mistake?

[manymongrels]

Situation: purchased nuc on Friday before Memorial Day weekend, couldn't install it until Saturday afternoon. By Sunday PM, probably 2/3 to maybe 3/4 of the bees died (Don't ask me why -- it's WAY too embarrassing to admit :o). By Monday PM (Memorial Day), I panicked b/c the remaining bees seemed disoriented, no sign of eggs, and I was worried that the queen had died too. So, I ordered a new queen, who should be arriving today. This morning when I looked at the hive from the outside there are bees arriving w/ pollen, they seem to have stopped taking the sugar syrup, and when I lifted the outer cover for a peek, there seemed to be normal hive activity. Now I'm thinking that maybe I overreacted and there is still a queen there. So here's the questions: Do you think there are enough bees to survive until the nuc queen starts laying, if she's alive?? If there is a nuc queen, can I take one frame or maybe 2 from the nuc hive to start a new hive with the replacement queen that should be arriving today? Am I dooming one or potentially two hives and queens to failure b/c there isn't enough "critical mass"?? I'm not too worried about long-run b/c even in November here (Texas), it can still be pretty warm. Thanks for any suggestions to help out this RANK NEWBEE!

[alpha6]

I would suggest you go into the nuc and look for the queen. You will have to do this sooner or later if you are planning to into a new queen. Before you decide to split your nuc you need to know how many bees you have to work and how many frames of brood. You can make two frame splits but you need a sufficient about of bees to care for the brood in each split. If you spit and there are not enough bees in either you will have two dead outs.

You need to keep the feed on the bees and build them up.

Last see if the person you got the nuc from has some frames of brood w/nurse bees that they would be willing to sell. If you can get some extra frames of brood you can into the queen you ordered into these and not break up an already weakened nuc.

Good luck.

[manymongrels]

I plan on looking for the nuc queen late this afternoon, but she is unmarked making things a tad more difficult. Appreciate the suggestion re: purchasing additional frames. I will investigate that. So, would you consider two frames of brood and nurse bees to be the minimum 'critical mass' to keep the hive(s) from deading out? Thanks for your suggestions!

[beedeetee]

Two frames of bees with no brood and a queen would be minimal in my opinion. Two frames of brood (especially capped) and bees will be 4 frames of bees in a couple of weeks.

With that few bees in the nuc finding the queen should be pretty easy. It would also be a good time to practice since the chance of success is pretty high.

[Countryboy]

I would just look for eggs. Eggs are less than 3 days old, so if you see any eggs, you know the queen survived.

[Beeslave]

Situation: purchased nuc on Friday before Memorial Day weekend, couldn't install it until Saturday afternoon. By Sunday PM, probably 2/3 to maybe 3/4 of the bees died (Don't ask me why -- it's WAY too embarrassing to admit :o). By Monday PM (Memorial Day), I panicked b/c the remaining bees seemed disoriented, no sign of eggs, and I was worried that the queen had died too.

I would be more concerned about why all the bees died. They were in a nuc in your possesion for 1 day then you transfered. They shouldn't die just because they are in a nuc. Did you have the box you transfered them into stored by any chemicals or use any pesticide spray around the boxes in storage? The only problems I can think of caused by leaving bees in a nuc to long is they will get honey bound and swarm. Did they starve?

[NewBee2007]

Situation: purchased nuc on Friday before Memorial Day weekend, couldn't install it until Saturday afternoon. By Sunday PM, probably 2/3 to maybe 3/4 of the bees died (Don't ask me why -- it's WAY too embarrassing to admit :o). By Monday PM (Memorial Day), I panicked b/c the remaining bees seemed disoriented, no sign of eggs, and I was worried that the queen had died too.QUOTE]

I would be more concerned about why all the bees died.

Also, just curious, what type of nuc was it? Could they have overheated?

[gmcharlie]

definatly look for eggs, and single eggs laid in the bottom of the cell.........anything else and they are queenless

[manymongrels]

OK -- looked very carefully again for queen and eggs late yesterday afternoon and didn't see anything. Found lots of pollen and uncured honey/sugar syrup, and a fair amount of burr comb between frames but nothing more. So I decided to install replacement queen in her cage. The moment I put the cage in between the frames, the workers seemed magnetically attracted to the queen cage. The hum inside the hive changed in pitch -- lower, softer, and many, many of the workers began fanning and exposing Nasonov gland. Others appeared to be trying to feed queen through screen. I'm taking all of this to be a good sign that they were in fact queenless and they would be accepting the replacement queen. So the extremely hard part now will be not peeking for a week.:)

As to why nuc bees died, part of it is I think they did get overheated, even though they were out of the sun, and the other part is my stupidity. As hugely embarrassing as it is to say, since this is semi-anonymous, I will admit to probably having overdone the spraying w/ sugar syrup the afternoon and subsequent morning after I purchased the nuc and before being able to install it in the hive. (Self-flagellation will now commence again.)

[beedeetee]

I would be pretty surprised that you could spray enough syrup to kill bees. I have had 3" of bees in an open feeder that I put out. I found them about an hour after I set the feeder out. The float (plywood with holes drilled in it) had started to sink due the the weight of the bees.

When I realized what was happening I got a strainer out of the kitchen and got a strainer and scooped the bees out of the syrup. I just dumped them on the grass. They were a good 3" deep by then.

By night there were only about 10-20 dead bees left. The rest had cleaned themselves up and gone home. I had but the open feeder away.

[Nan3902]

Beedeetee,

I read your story and feel that there is someone who is learning, like me. I think I killed off a queen supersedure that I shouldn't have. And I have plans to buy a new queen when I don't know if I should.

We are learning alot. And sometimes it is the hard way.

Some day we will have happy bees.

:)

Nancy in Ovid , NY

[beedeetee]

Yes, this is a hobby for me so learning is a big part of it. I have had bees since 1985 and every year I have one (or sometimes all) hive that does something that I completely don't expect or know exactly how to deal with.

This forum also gives us ideas on how change our beekeeping ways, but I have tried some things that I found on here that just didn't work for me. Probably because we all have such different climates, flora, flow dates, etc.

I had successfully used open feeding in the past with the same equipment, but I think that during the other times, some hives had something else to forage also. When I had the big soaking it looked like everyone came to the party.

The poster that started this thread may not have actually killed his bees by soaking, but probably learned that a light misting would be better. Lesson one down, many thousand to go. What a great hobby.

[manymongrels]

Just thought I'd post an update. I installed my replacement queen in her cage last Thursday and managed to resist peeking until last night. But last night the itchiness was too great, so I had to scratch. The workers have been taking some sugar syrup, but at a reduced rate than before. The existing workers had eaten most but not all of the candy plug. The workers were feeding and "kissing" her through the screen, so I decided to release the queen without waiting for them to eat the remainder of the plug. She's been intro'd while in the cage for 5 days, so I figured it would be OK. Queenie scrambled away down the frame, workers right behind her. It looks like my panicked guess about queenlessness was sheer beginner's luck. Now to wait another 5 days or so to see if Queenie starts laying. I can hardly wait.

One thing I did notice while watching the last couple of days is that I don't see a lot of workers bringing back pollen. Should I feed them patties, to help w/ brood rearing??

Thanks!

[daknoodle]

Do note that it can take up to 9 or 10 days before a new queen with start laying eggs. And that's after release.

We have had some showers the last couple of days so that will limit what the bees can collect. Though you made it sound like they had been bringing in pollen already so they might have what they need.

Typically, they can be left alone to collect what they need, when they need it. The only feed I put on them is sugar syrup.

And anytime you want to come take a look at some other hives, give me a holler. Though I'm in south Arlington, which can be a little bit of a drive, I'm always open to having fellow beeks over.

And welcome to your new addiction! hehe

Doug

[gmcharlie]

I wouldn't feed pollen patties this late in that area. SHB invatation, and they probably won't take it. keep up the feeding and check for eggs in a day or two (assuming she was a bred queen she should lay within 24 hours. use very little smoke, or just try sugar water....

Hey and You DID GREAT noticeing and correcting the problem!!!!
:applause:

[Nan3902]

You accidentally killed your bees. I intentionally killed my queen. All for the hive, I know.

Nancy

[Ted n Ms]

Was this a nuc or package? No need to spray sugar water on a nuc.

[manymongrels]

It was a wooden nuc. And the seller, whom I won't name b/c I think he's pretty well known, advised me to spray w/ sugar water. I think I way overdid it, though. As one acquaintance put it, I candied the bees. Like I said, REALLY embarrasing to admit.

Thanks for the hint about SHB. I didn't realize pollen extender/substitute would do that.

But thank you, gmcharlie, for telling me I did good to recognize and correct. I appreciated that. Just sign me one big Newbeek! ;)

[manymongrels]

OK -- another quick update. Checked today and new queen has begun laying! YEAH! :applause: No larvae yet, but it's only been 4 days since she was released from queen cage. Now I'm concerned there aren't enough bees left in hive to make it through the next couple of weeks till new generation starts hatching. Think I need to buy a frame or 2 of brood. But I finally feel like I've done something right!

Manymongrels -- a true nubeek

[Ted n Ms]

When i buy a nuc i want it to have atleast 3 drawn combs and two frames of sealed brood with the queen out and laying. The purpose of a nuc is to get a head start. Unlike a package where you start from zero. A nuc should be like minuture bee hive.

[Batman]

Went out to look at another hive today and the guy had full hives for sell and have tons of nucs in the works. Just a older chap enjoying his hobby and making a little $ in the process. He even took the time to let me know how to do my own nucs for later on down the road. Told me to come back anytime I had any questions about anything. Good local asset to have. Most beeks I have met around here seem to think I'm stealing from them for trying to start my own backyard hive. He was even considerate of my being a newbie and didn't seem to mind a blunder in calling something the wrong thing, he just pollitely corrected me. Even more important, he actually raises queens himself so if I screw up too bad and kill the queen and can't fix the problem myself, I know where to go for a replacement