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kwest
05-17-2009, 04:37 PM
I have two new hives packaged two weeks ago. they are building good and laying good. I have been feeding them a steady supply of sugar water by putting 3 quart jars upside down on the frames and putting a second deep box over the jars then the hive top. My one hive has about six frames drawn (i started with plastic wax coverd foundation from mann lake) and i have a ten frame box. i scraped off some come above the frame friday and today they had it rebuilt. so i put on a second box with ten new frames of undrawn foundation. Is this a mistake? They seem as though they want to build up rather than fill the outer frames up.

no1cowboy
05-17-2009, 05:26 PM
you need to put an inner cover on then put your feeder on the inner cover over the hole in it, this will keep the bees out of the top box.

kwest
05-18-2009, 09:18 AM
thankyou for the info. is it bad to put on a second hive body like I did? or should I remove it and put on the inner cover?

NasalSponge
05-18-2009, 09:23 AM
thankyou for the info. is it bad to put on a second hive body like I did? or should I remove it and put on the inner cover?
Anytime you violate the bee space the bees will respond according to their nature.

alpha6
05-18-2009, 09:31 AM
To answer your question they will fill out the center frames of the second box before they fill out the end frames of the bottom box. They prefer to work the center first because thats where they like to hang. Try this. Keep rotating an undrawn frame into the position right next to your frames with brood (don't place it between the brood frames though) and move the drawn frame to the outside. This way they will fill out all the frames for you. Another way is to move a frame of partially drawn comb from the center of the second hive to the outside of the first hive. Once started they will finish it off. Keep feeding them. The move they feed the more comb they will draw out.

Hope that helps.

Oldbee
05-18-2009, 09:51 AM
If the package was installed only 2 weeks ago and they have about six frames drawn out, it's too early to put on another box; especially if it is a deep. The bees will do better in the beginning with a smaller space. They might start chewing holes in the foundation if there is little right now in the way of a nectar flow. { "Undrawn foundations should be given to only rapidly growing colonies such as a package, swarm, or colony split or to established colonies during a major nectar flow. When foundation is given to colonies during a nectar dearth, the bees will often chew holes in the foundation." --Mississppi State Univ. Entomology.} Wait another 1-1-1/2 weeks when they will have new bees emerging; 100-200+ per day. It is not a major 'mistake'. Some of the timing for that depends on your local weather; wet, cool, cloudy >>not so good. If it's dry, normal spring warmth and flowers blooming>>not too bad. You can move those outer frames a little closer to the center; 7-8-9 position, if you want to.

D's_Bees
05-18-2009, 11:00 AM
They might start chewing holes in the foundation if there is little right now in the way of a nectar flow.

what does this behavior do for the bees?

Oldbee
05-18-2009, 11:21 AM
What does it do for them? :scratch: I don't know; reduce stress; :D like,..'washboarding'? It seems that's when I have seen them do it the most, [little nectar] especially in the fall. You have seen it and you were not feeding. There is probably a 'scientific' explanation. I have read that since it is new wax [sort of], they can chew little bits and use it in other areas of the hive.

Gene Weitzel
05-19-2009, 10:11 AM
If you don't want to deal with the small amounts of comb they build on top of the frames, you can stuff newspaper around the feed jars in the empty deep. I feed the same way only I give them a 1 gallon can. I don't bother with the newspaper, I just scrape off the comb periodically. If they build it all the way up to the top and are putting brood in it, then I would say it is definately past time for the second deep. On new hives, I usually put the second deep on when there is 7 to 8 frames drawn and covered with bees in the first deep. You can rotate the outer frames in a position or two to get them to draw them out if it bothers you. I find that they eventually draw them out anyway so I rarely move them in. I do bait them up into the second deep by switching out a frame or two of brood up from the bottom deep into the center of the top deep. Do not put the undrawn frame(s) in the center of the brood nest in the bottom deep, close the gap and put them in at the edges. However, if you have empty drawn frames, you can safely put one of them into the gap in the brood nest.

Michael Bush
05-20-2009, 06:01 PM
A package is a comb building team. They are looking to build comb everywhere they can. Don't give them space to build it places where they shouldn't. This includes putting empty boxes on top that they have access to, or a spacer for a baggie feeder etc. A frame feeder, a jar over the inner cover with duct tape covering any access or something similar is good. A bottom board feeder is good. Baggie feeders on the bottom board are good IF you put the bees in first and the baggie feeders on after the bees are off of the bottom.

You can add another box. If they are still making a chimney up the middle you can pull some frames of brood down from the top box and swap them with the undrawn combs in the bottom box.

Bluidshay
05-21-2009, 09:40 AM
Mine keep building what I call the "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" sculpture, right up through the hole in my inner cover, until it meets the feed jar. I've scraped it twice now. So if I'm reading this correctly, I could put an undrawn frame NEXT to but not BETWEEN the brood...even if it moves my two frames of brood a bit to the right or the left (in otherwords, now the brood is in frames 5&6, it would move to frames [4]&[5] if I switched out Undrawn Frame [1] with drawn honey/pollen frame [3])? I'm anxiously awaiting my first brood hatching and I don't want to mess it up.

Michael Bush
05-24-2009, 12:39 PM
>So if I'm reading this correctly, I could put an undrawn frame NEXT to but not BETWEEN the brood...even if it moves my two frames of brood a bit to the right or the left (in otherwords, now the brood is in frames 5&6, it would move to frames [4]&[5] if I switched out Undrawn Frame [1] with drawn honey/pollen frame [3])? I'm anxiously awaiting my first brood hatching and I don't want to mess it up.

If the hive is strong I'd put it BETWEEN two nice brood combs. If it's not so strong then I'd put it on the edge of the brood nest. You will have to pull a frame out if you are at the maximum number that will fit, and put it somewhere.