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captahab
05-12-2009, 11:04 AM
Just curious how the populis feel about the plastic Pierco frames.
Both my hives have the plastic in them and Im wondering what is
the advantage/disadvantge of them versus the wood and wax
foundation.My nucs will arrive this weekend and as usual,Im second
guessing my choices.

EastSideBuzz
05-12-2009, 11:14 AM
From what I hear you don't want to mix. I use wood frames and a mix of plastic cell and wax foundation. My wax foundation I bought built out from a guy so they did not know the difference. Once they build out the plastic starter it is like a regular wax one from a bee perspective.

I am getting Mann Lake PF-120's for my supers.

Check out these links they will answer your question.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1805232


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iwombat
05-12-2009, 12:44 PM
It's ok to mix frames. It's done all the time. I think you'll find a lot more opinions on this than data. Use what you like is my advice.

mgmoore7
05-12-2009, 01:12 PM
I am finding that I don't like plastic frames but I do like the pierco wax covered foundation in wood frames.

The plastic frames I have have not been accepted well, have places for SHB to hide and some warp.

Joseph Clemens
05-12-2009, 01:37 PM
I like the PF120's (white) and PF125's (black), both 6-1/4" deep, from Mann Lake - because I'm lazy and they come, ready-to-use. I don't particularly like the frame they come with (one piece frame/foundation), I prefer cutting the foundation out and installing it into wooden frames - but that is tedious, so I don't do it very often. I like them because they are small-cell and they add minimal wax, that may possibly be contaminated. I also use foundationless wooden frames, fastening a small strip of wood into the top bar groove.

BEES4U
05-12-2009, 04:21 PM
I posted photos early last spring for proof that they can be co-mingled!
Pierco has a very good product.
You can pay a small fee and have them sprayed with bees wax.

Ernie

gmcharlie
05-12-2009, 06:37 PM
you can mix all types with no problems.
Based on m Bush's thoughts on natural comb I started 20 new hives from pacakages (3 weeks ago) in mixed boxes 3 frames of full plastic pierco, 3 frames of wax foundation and 3 frames with NOTHING just empty frame...
and 1 frame of previously drawn comb

All pierco and wax was prayed with sugar water

Without exception the empty frames are drawn FASTER and comletly, they do stop short of teh bottom bar, but very quick. compared to the pierco and way it seems equal. they are in no way avoiding either, but work faster and neater on the bare frames.

I am not sure why yet, Michael thinks that the work from both sides better, he also makes a comment about confusion.... so I am not sure why, but I am defiantly convinced and impressed.

BUT this is for brood only. the fact the comb doesn't go to the bottom is an issue for supers. But I do mix plastic and wax in supers all the time...

iwombat
05-12-2009, 07:02 PM
They're drawing the empty frames first because they're filling in beespace violations with comb. The only valid test for this is to use 60 or so hives (20, 20 and 20) with all the same genetic stock and use only one type of frame per hive.

So far, I don't know anyone that's done it.

gmcharlie
05-12-2009, 08:05 PM
They're drawing the empty frames first because they're filling in beespace violations with comb. The only valid test for this is to use 60 or so hives (20, 20 and 20) with all the same genetic stock and use only one type of frame per hive.

So far, I don't know anyone that's done it.

fair thought but I disagree. undrawn comb be it foundation or empty frames are both violations of the beespace issue.

The goal of my experiment was to evaulate acceptance rates/ quality. I fould little or no difference ( I even had a matrix for what frame was next to each other.) what I found was that although they accepted all types equaly, they worked faster with no devider between them.

the quandry with a 20/20/20 is you couldn't balance the wax building levels of each cluster. IE one package is very quick, another is a bit slow on teh wax
I equalized that by giving them choices. within each hive. like I said they did not ovid the plastic, but in evry choice they moved to the EMPTY frame fist as the basic starting point, even when the empty frame was 2 frames away from the drawn frame given them......

and the speed. yikes 2 comlete drawn deep frames in 3 weeks, as well as buildup on the wax and plastic.

peletier
05-12-2009, 08:33 PM
I have been alternating foundation and foundationless frames in some of my supers this year. The foundationless get drawn first. I don't think it is a beespace issue, I think they LIKE to build it the way they want it. The size of the honey storage cells is really amazing. I have no way to measure it but I swear the cells were at a steeper angle than those on foundation.

I also have been putting some empty frames in the broodnests. Today I saw eggs in some truly HUGE drone cells. Can't wait to see the size of those puppies.