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View Full Version : Help!!! Maggots?!?



mmarmino
05-12-2009, 01:53 AM
Well first off this is my first post here and my second year having bees. So Im still very much a newb.

I believe one of my hives is queen less due to a few reasons:
1. I cannot find the queen
2.They are loud. they seemed to be buzzing a lot today when I inspected
3. There is not a definitive brood pattern and also I believe some of the workers must be laying because some cells had like five or more eggs in them and also some of the larva are coming through the capped cells.

My main concern is there are what appears to be small maggots in some of the capped honey I put in there from last year. I have a picture but cannot figure out how to make an album.

I'm not for sure if I should combine this hive with my stronger hive after taking care of the worm problem or should I try to re queen. I read that it is hard to re queen after the workers have started laying. I can get a buckeye queen next week.

JBJ
05-12-2009, 03:17 AM
Add some fresh brood to the queenless unit and then place it in the position of a unit with a good queen and a strong field force. When the unit is in the proper mood present a queen or queen cell.

Not sure about the maggots. are SHB a problem in your area?

mmarmino
05-12-2009, 09:09 AM
Thanks, from pictures it looks like shb, Im contacting the Kentucky State Apiarist to see if they can have someone come out.

Sundance
05-12-2009, 03:24 PM
Are you seeing any small black beetles?

Get the affected frames out of the hive if at all
possible and freeze them. Reduce the number of
frames to a number the bees can cover well.

If is it SHB, you have to act really fast.

mmarmino
05-12-2009, 03:43 PM
I have not seen any beetles, just larva crawling around on the comb honey. I already removed and cleaned out the hive and also put the infected frames in the deep freezer. There was also a lot of like crumbly black stuff on the bottom board in the hive. I took pictures but cant figure out how to post in here.

There are only about three frames of bees left and a lot of drones. so i put the one box from that hive on top of my good hive and separated with news paper with small holes cut in it.

SlickMick
05-18-2009, 08:14 AM
It sounds to me like you have small hive beetle.

If you are getting larva you need to act very quickly. At least you are acting on the SHB larva. The deep freeze is the way to go with them

The brood chamber is where a lot of your problem is. The beetle will eat eggs and larva of the bee and if the hive becomes overcome the colony will abscond. If you dont see any beetle it does not mean that they are not there. They hide in all the little spaces in your hive and lay heaps of eggs which become the larva you are seeing.

Firstly to make sure that it is SHB place the hive lid upside on the ground and put the brood box and any supers on top of it.. brood box first. Because the SHB does not like the light it will migrate towards the lid and after 5 minutes or so you will see them on the upturned lid as they scamper from the light. If there are SHB on the lid I would hope that your bees are acting aggressively towards them but in any case you should use your hive tool or anything else to squish them. You should also see them running around your bottom board. Deal with them

Replace the box on the bottom board and take out all frames that the bees cannot cover as these frames present all sorts of hiding spaces to the SHB.

Put only honey frames that have been frozen and are capped back into the hive. If you can put them into the brood box and have them fully covered by bees then do so but if you cant then stick them into a refrigerator or keep them frozen.

Basically you have to reduce to a minimum any spare space you have in your hive. If you do not have a full brood box full of frames then put a division board in to reduce the space available to the SHB.

You need to get traps into your hive ASAP. There are some commercial ones and some that beeks have designed. Google them and see what you can come up with.

Inspecting your hives at regular short invervals is now going to be important to see how the hive is going. You may need to combine it with a strong hive to ensure its survival or support it by adding brood to build its strength

Hope that it works out for you

Please keep in touch and keep us informed on what you did and how it is going for your girls

Mick

Bee_Sweet
05-18-2009, 08:59 AM
Look into wax moths. A lot of times wax moths will move right in when a hive is not queen right and their larva can also resemble that of SHB. I would do some reading on wax moths if I were you. However, as others have said get those frames out of there.

Matt

mmarmino
05-19-2009, 01:46 AM
I went through the hive and did find some beetles. After goggling shb images i am positive that is what i have in the hive. I squished them and added some traps so hopefully will not have this problem again for a while. Since the hive was queenless i added it to my other stronger hive and the are doing good, im gonna inspect tomorrow because i will be getting another laying queen in the morning.

SlickMick
05-19-2009, 02:39 AM
Mmarmino, it is going to be crucial that you monitor the hive that you combined your troubled hive with. There wil be shb in that hive for sure. I would go through the process of breaking the hive down to get your brood box on the upturned lid to allow time for the shb to get down into the lid where you can squash them. That way you get to know what you have to deal with. Make sure that you get some traps into the combined hive to support your colony and also that you have all your frames covered with bees.

Glad to hear that you seem to be getting things under control.

Mick

mmarmino
05-24-2009, 05:52 PM
I have since gotten the problem under control but have finally got my pics on the computer and would like to know for future reference if my diagnosis was correct. Are these small hive beetles and larva?

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff270/mmarmino/IMG_5204.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff270/mmarmino/IMG_5363.jpg

Tom G. Laury
05-24-2009, 06:03 PM
Yes. The distinctive "horns" are quite visible. SHB larvae are a little difficult to crush,lots of pressure until they pop. WM larvae are easy to crush.

mmarmino
05-24-2009, 06:44 PM
ok thanks for the fast reply now I know how close to look for these critters but now im taking preventative measures.

SlickMick
05-24-2009, 07:56 PM
Yep definitely SHB.

Glad to hear that things are under control. You will still have eggs hatching so watch out for the return of the larva

Mick

mgmoore7
05-26-2009, 07:19 AM
Also be aware that many larve probably got to the ground an will complete their life cycle and become a beetle. Keep your traps in.

Loonerone
05-27-2009, 09:28 PM
I've had bees now for 9 days and have wax moths and SHBs - which must have come in the two nucs - should I ask for my money back and get rid of these colonies? One colony has a lot of bees, the other, not that many. Should I combine the two hives and kill one queen to make a strong hive that might be able to fight these two pests?

If I remove frame and add a divider - won't they swarm as their numbers grow - or will the SHB and moth keep the brood down so removing frames is the better choice?

Should I exchange the top feeder for a pail feeder as the bees build up the comb? Someone suggested the top feeder gives SHB a breeding ground.

I made a Sonny and Mel SHB trap but don't know where to put it....on the tray in the SBB?? It won't fit under the top feeder....


I can't believe I am facing this in my first adventure with bees. How discouraging - but, reality is here, I guess.

Thank you!

SlickMick
05-27-2009, 10:34 PM
From what you are saying I believe that you still have your bees in the nuc boxes. Not having had to deal with wax moths but have to do so continuously with SHB I will try to answer what I can.

Firstly Shb need room to hide in the hive where they can lay their eggs so it is important that you have only the number of frames that can be covered by your bees. It sounds as though one colony maybe able to do so but your other may not. You may need to remove frames that can't be covered adequately from both hives. If you do remove frames even if they have honey, freeze them for 24 hours as this will kill all stages of the shb

It would be a shame to destroy one queen when strengthening up the weaker hive may be an option. This could be done by simply swapping places with your hives. Your returning field bees will go to the place where came from and will now enter the weaker hive and build up its numbers.

I would slot in some shb traps urgently and there are a number discussed on this forum and others.

The biggest thing with the shb is that they are able to quickly overcome a weak hive so if you are going to actively approach the shb it is better to do so quickly before they are able to cause havoc. The shb is managable but you just have to be aware that they are a really serious pest.

I believe that wax moth is much more manageable. Can you see maggots? The maggots of the shb and wax moth appear similar so you may need to do a search on both to be able to identify them. If the shb came with the nucs and has been laying from day 1 they will be hatching now and turning into maggots. In very short time the shb maggot will be active within your honey frames causing a smelling slime as it moves through the comb defecating.

I would not give up trying to deal with your hives at this point. If you can strenghten you hives and if your bees are actively attempting to rid the hive of the beetle you should be ok

Stay in touch and let us know how you get on

Mick

mgmoore7
05-28-2009, 07:42 AM
I've had bees now for 9 days and have wax moths and SHBs - which must have come in the two nucs - should I ask for my money back and get rid of these colonies? One colony has a lot of bees, the other, not that many. Should I combine the two hives and kill one queen to make a strong hive that might be able to fight these two pests?

If I remove frame and add a divider - won't they swarm as their numbers grow - or will the SHB and moth keep the brood down so removing frames is the better choice?

Should I exchange the top feeder for a pail feeder as the bees build up the comb? Someone suggested the top feeder gives SHB a breeding ground.

I made a Sonny and Mel SHB trap but don't know where to put it....on the tray in the SBB?? It won't fit under the top feeder....


I can't believe I am facing this in my first adventure with bees. How discouraging - but, reality is here, I guess.

Thank you!


When you say that you have both of these, can you be more descriptive. Having them and them being a problem are 2 different things.

Are you in full deeps or nucs? How much honey is in there now, I am guessing not much.

Both of these pests fly into the hive in your area. Therefore, it can't be blamed on the source unless you got a nuc that was already infested with either that is unlikely.

I would put a divider in now. As they grow, move the divider out a frame at a time. Also get some traps of some kind for the beetles. They are not a 100% solution but do help a little.

sc-bee
05-28-2009, 10:21 PM
SHB it is!!! As stated above, act fast!!! Folks say keep a strong hive. This was a strong hive --- what made it weak was a swarm. After the swarm to much comb space to protect.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g24/sc-bee/Beekeeping/Picture193.jpg


http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g24/sc-bee/Beekeeping/shb.jpg

terri lynn
05-28-2009, 11:51 PM
Boy, those photos make you want to puke! I'm going to start being very diligent here! Guess I need to study preventative measures more. I've had just 2 or 3 of what I guess were SHB, but the bees got rid of them. Thank God they didn't advance to this stage. Sure would be nice to not have to deal with mites and beetles.

SlickMick
05-29-2009, 12:57 AM
My 2 hives that were overcome did make me want to puke.. it was absolutely disgusting and I still have nightmares from it. All I did was extract my supers (1 from each hive) and put the stickies back on the hives to be cleaned up. 2 weeks later that is what they looked like.. 20 deep frames like that and worse...ugggh. I dont take anything for granted now.. oil traps in the bottom board, AJ traps in the boxes.. checking all the time.

Mick

terri lynn
05-29-2009, 11:04 AM
Thanks for that info, Mick. That's good to know. You're right - it is disgusting, plus it would make me sick just because of worrying over my hive. I'm afraid I may be thinking of them too much as pets...can't stand any losses, however hard I have to work to prevent it. Pest control is one thing I haven't been as diligent as I should have been about, mainly from lack of knowledge and not wanting any more chemicals than necessary. I'm going to take that pest class that was mentioned on this forum and try to learn more about the traps, etc. This was a good wakeup call for me. I appreciate the photos also...sure helps in knowing what you're looking at.

Chick
06-07-2009, 03:43 AM
The beetle, in the pupae stage, has to go back to the ground, to mature. The beetles don't like high pH, so lime the ground all around the hives and lightly mist the bees with 1 cup of salt mixed with 1 quart of water, which will raise the pH on the bees themselves. Don't drown them, just a light mist. This works with mites, too.

Loonerone
06-07-2009, 08:08 AM
I never heard of misting with salt water....sounds chancy to me.

jlovell
06-23-2009, 12:42 PM
If you do remove frames even if they have honey, freeze them for 24 hours as this will kill all stages of the shb.

Looks like I also have a small infestation trying to get a foothold. I have pulled the bad frame and frozen it. Next question, if you freeze a frame to kill the SHB larvae, how long do you need to leave the frame to thaw before you put it back in the hive to be "cleaned off"? Do not want to chill brood or cause further hardship to the hive. On the flip side, I don't want to leave it out, unattended by bees, and have it get re-infested somehow.

mgmoore7
06-23-2009, 12:52 PM
Looks like I also have a small infestation trying to get a foothold. I have pulled the bad frame and frozen it. Next question, if you freeze a frame to kill the SHB larvae, how long do you need to leave the frame to thaw before you put it back in the hive to be "cleaned off"? Do not want to chill brood or cause further hardship to the hive. On the flip side, I don't want to leave it out, unattended by bees, and have it get re-infested somehow.


Depends on your temperature but in FL, I would put them back in the hive within a few hours if need be. I don't recall that it takes a long time to thaw