new TBH beekeeper with questions about installing a package

[spiritfreedom]

Hi to anyone who comes to this sub-forum. Guessing it is a lot quieter here.

So, a friend convinced me to start beekeeping this year. I built my own TBH and it's mostly done. I had missed all the bee classes so I'm still mostly in the dark and my package of bees (not a nuc) are coming THIS WEEKEND.

I'm anxious as I don't know how to install them. Just need to find cliff notes for top bar hiv beekeeping so I don't kill or allow to fly way forever, when they arrive due to my ignorance at what they need.:doh:

[kaisfate]

First off, welcome to TBH beekeeping! I am also a TBH'er, just starting out this year.

There are responses to your question somewhere...I know someone else has asked this...but basically its the same as installing in a Lang hive. Secure the queen cage in between 2 top bars and dump the package in the hive. Close up the TB and you are good to go.

Just curious, what are the dimensions of your hive and the length of your top bars? Also, what are you using as a comb guide? There has been lots of discussion here and over on the BioBees forum (check them out, lots of TBH keepers there) about crossed comb and the best comb guides to use...

Good luck and welcome again!

[REWERT]

I've only done this (install packages in TBH) twice but had great results. I have heard LOTS of horror stories of hanging cage from bars, resulting in cross-comb issues. Here's what I did: Dump the package into the front end of the hive then close up the bars and put the (nearly) empty box in front of hive so remaining will find their way in. Spray the queen cage with 1:1 syrup. Then open up 2 bars in the BACK end of hive and reach in and open up the queen cage and let her go (I set the open queen cage on the bottom of the hive and recovered it about a week later) and replace the 2 bars. I would also recommend putting some queen excluder on your entrance for a few days. I've heard that absconding from new packages can be an issue. Good luck!

[Cacklewack]

I simply pulled out the queen cage, stuck in the marshmallow and placed her in the bottom of the hive. I removed 5-6 bars, opened the package and dumped them in on top of her. A week later I removed the empty queen cage. I've done that with 20 packages and all queens have released properly.

Matt

[dan k 1]

Hi, Welcome to the forum. I’m new at this also. I installed my bees on Tues. April 28th I think everything went well. All I did was remove about 6 bars from the hive (I counted 6 bars from the front of the hive then removed the next 6 bars) Opened the bee box (mine had a small massonite cover that I had to pry off), Removed the queen cage and syrup can, coved the bee box/pkg to keep the bees inside the cage while I hung the queen cage from the 6 or 7th bar. Floral wire works good for that. Then I shook the bees into the hive. I left a few bars off for about 15 min.'s to a half hour. I closed up once most of the bees were inside. I also placed the box/pkg in front of the hive for the few remaining bees to fly out of and find the entrance. A small pair of needle nose pliers, hive tool or small flat head screw driver, and a spray bottle with 1:1 syrup would be good things to have on hand.
Before I installed the bees I placed a 1 quart Jar feeder inside the hive and they devoured that in no time. I think less than 3 days .
I checked on them after 3 days. the feeder was bone dry,The queen was out of her cage, they did build a small piece of comb on the queen cage that I removed and my dog found and ate. lol.
I’m not sure if that’s the most correct method, but, it has worked this far. The bees have drawn comb on a few bars and taking a lot of syrup.
You can find a bunch home video's of this on YouTube if you want to see this done before your bees arrive.

Enjoy
Dan

[Hambone]

Here are some pics of an install. About 3/4 of the way down shows him installing a package.

http://www.fourmagicacres.net/pages/apiary.htm#March292008

[spiritfreedom]

Just curious, what are the dimensions of your hive and the length of your top bars? Also, what are you using as a comb guide?


I built it from the biobees pdf. The top bars are 17" long and 3/4" thick. They have a groove on the underside that I just filled with beeswax.

[spiritfreedom]

Dump the package into the front end of the hive then close up the bars and put the (nearly) empty box in front of hive so remaining will find their way in. Spray the queen cage with 1:1 syrup. Then open up 2 bars in the BACK end of hive and reach in and open up the queen cage and let her go (I set the open queen cage on the bottom of the hive and recovered it about a week later) and replace the 2 bars. I would also recommend putting some queen excluder on your entrance for a few days. I've heard that absconding from new packages can be an issue. Good luck!

What should I expect to get when I pick them up? You say "box". What sort of box? I'm *such* a newbie. What sort of syrup should I be using? Can you point me to some links on what you mean when you say "put some queen excluder on the entrance"?

[spiritfreedom]

I simply pulled out the queen cage, stuck in the marshmallow and placed her in the bottom of the hive. I removed 5-6 bars, opened the package and dumped them in on top of her. A week later I removed the empty queen cage. I've done that with 20 packages and all queens have released properly.
Matt

You sound quite confident, Matt. What is this marshmallow you speak of? How many top bars would be good to leave in the hive to start? You say you remove 5-6. Does that mean of the 20 or so you have you remove 5-6?

[kaisfate]

I would say leave 8-10 topbars, blocking off the rest of the hive with your follower board. I would also suggest using a better comb guide then a kerf filled with beeswax, check out the biobees forum for recent discussion on this. The marshmallow refers to a small marshmallow that beeks install in the hole on the queen cage after they remove the plug. The bees eat the marshmallow and eventually release the queen..

[spiritfreedom]

All I did was remove about 6 bars from the hive (I counted 6 bars from the front of the hive then removed the next 6 bars) Opened the bee box (mine had a small massonite cover that I had to pry off), Removed the queen cage and syrup can, coved the bee box/pkg to keep the bees inside the cage while I hung the queen cage from the 6 or 7th bar. Floral wire works good for that. Then I shook the bees into the hive. I left a few bars off for about 15 min.'s to a half hour. I closed up once most of the bees were inside. I also placed the box/pkg in front of the hive for the few remaining bees to fly out of and find the entrance. A small pair of needle nose pliers, hive tool or small flat head screw driver, and a spray bottle with 1:1 syrup would be good things to have on hand.
Before I installed the bees I placed a 1 quart Jar feeder inside the hive and they devoured that in no time.
Dan

Did your bees come with enough food to last for an extra day or so in the "package"? I'm so nervous and I'm not sure I'll have figured out what plan I want to follow and am most comfortable with when they arrive.

You say you covered the bee box when you removed the queen. Did they come in the same box so that when you take the queen out all the bees could get out too?

[Tomas]

Here’s a photo of packages of bees. For part of the year I work with commercial beekeepers in Wisconsin. We were making up these packages off and on during the last several weeks. The ones in the picture were the ones for my own top bar hives in Wisconsin.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Bees%20in%20Wisconsin/Beepackages.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Bees%20in%20Wisconsin/beepackage.jpg

The queen is inside a small cage that hangs inside the box with the bees. With these packages you can see the little metal tab from which the queen cage is hanging. Sometimes there is a plastic tab.

In the center of the package is the syrup can. The syrup is usually high fructose corn syrup (with is normally bought in bulk by the commercial beekeepers). But it might also be a sucrose-type syrup. But you can make up something yourself by mixing regular dry sugar with water, usually in a 1 to 1 ratio for this time of the year. It works just a well as the fructose corn syrup.

There is usually enough syrup in that can to last the bees anywhere from three to seven days. My own had been made up four days before I installed them. Most used less than half of that can.

The queen cage will either be plastic or wooden. There are different types. The second photo shows plastic queen cages that were being installed in these packages. Most, however, have some sort of tube where the queen comes out of. Sometimes it is filled with a type of sugar candy (Other times maybe not, hence the need for the marshmallow or some other type of sugar candy to plug it for a bit. Granulated honey works well).

Usually the package bees have been with that queen for at least three days so they are more then ready to accept her. She could be released almost immediately after you get the bees shaken into their hive but you run the risk of her maybe flying if you direct release her, (as in opening up the cage so she can crawl right out). That’s why you let the rest of the bees eat out that candy so the queen can get out later after you have the hive all closed up.

Normally there is something covering the candy in the tube while it is hanging in the package box (you don’t want the bees getting at that and releasing here while they are still in the package box). Make sure there is no covering on the tube once you are ready to put the cage in the hive after the bees have been shaken in it.

And what kaisfate says about the comb guide is good advice. Some sort of guide should hang down below the top bars. This helps to ensure that the bees will build the comb directly in the center of the bar and keep it straight along its length. It helps ensure they don’t cross the comb between bars. Here is a photo of my top bars with their guide. It’s just a strip of wax covered paper that I glue into the groove with a bit more wax.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/topbarswithstarterstrips.jpg

Good luck.

---------
Tom

[LenInNorCal]

It's not complicated so don't be intimidated by it. A box is a six sided wooden structure but two of the surface-faces have wire instead of wood walls so you can see and hear the bees. Be gentle at all times in moving the box. It is a not big at all and weighs about 6 pounds. Inside the box there are two other thingys. One is a can-container of water-syrup. The other is the queen cage, which is about the size of a big guys' thumb, and contains the queen. She is dangling by a thread suspended on the box surface to keep her seperated from her hive. That is for your purpose so you can find her.
Anyway, when you get the box, keep it in a cool dark place for no more than a few hours as they may run out of food. The can in the box has about a three day supply of syrup, and the person that is getting box to you should tell you when they put that can into the box, so you can figure how long the food will last. Prior to release have a spray bottle of water or a mixture of water-syrup, one to one; that is a one cup of water to one cup of white sugar, like C&H or Safeway sugar. Do NOT use molasses, brown sugar, confectionery, or any other sugar but plain cheap white sugar. Have it mixed well so the water is clear in your spray bottle. Truthfully, just spraying them with water works about as well.
Have all your materials ready and be on site before opening the box. Spray the bees in the box with your water, or water syrup. Remove the can. Take the queen cage out of the box and set her aside. Dump and shake the bees into your hive which will consist of about 10 bars. You will add more bars later.
See other posts on how to release the queen since there are many methods and opinions.
Spray again.
The box will have a few bees left in it so put that outside the hive so those remaining bees will smell the wax, other bees, and their queen and will simply and eventually go into the hive. They will all be in the hive by sunset-dark.
Leave alone for a few days (MOST difficult). A good bee keeper will supply that same sugar-water (1:1) for a while preferably from the inside of the hive, so have that ready as well when you put your first colony in their new home.
Breath.

[spiritfreedom]

And what kaisfate says about the comb guide is good advice. Some sort of guide should hang down below the top bars. This helps to ensure that the bees will build the comb directly in the center of the bar and keep it straight along its length. It helps ensure they don’t cross the comb between bars. Here is a photo of my top bars with their guide. It’s just a strip of wax covered paper that I glue into the groove with a bit more wax.
Tom

Anxious........ after getting that advice to not use the kerf filled with wax, I ripped, glued, and nails 1/2 " wood over the length of the kerf on all of my top bars.

Is 1/2 " too wide? I'm just about out of time as I go and get them tomorrow....

[Michael Bush]

1/2" by what? I usually shoot for about 1/8" wide by 1/2" and then glue it into the groove in the bar. Or a chamfer just cut and nailed and glued on. Whatever you did, if it's in the center of the comb it will probably do ok, but if it's actually 1/2" wide and square on the bottom they will wander from one edge to the next or maybe build part on one edge and part on the other. On 1/8" wide this is not noticable.

[dan k 1]

Is a 1/2" too wide? I'm not sure. Other than the wax filled kerf, the only other bar guides that Ive seen have been Popsicle sticks or the 3/4" triangular shaped wood strip or in my neck of the woods they are called chamfer strip. I used paint stirring sticks in one hive and chamfer strips in the another.

The one question I have is how tall are the bar guides you made? I read a thread on a different site about bar guides where a beek suggested that the depth of the guide may also encourage the ladies to build straight comb.

I think You could try the bars you made to start. The bees will not fill the hive with comb over night. This would allow you to monitor how they are building comb on the wider strip, and give you a little more time to make bars with a thinner guides If necessary.
My bees seem to be doing fine so far, this coming Tues. will mark 2 weeks in their new homes. I'm going to take a quick look in side my hives tomorrow and I'll let you know how the guides I made are working.

If it helps? I was a complete wreck at last 3 days before my bees arrived. and at least 3 days after, but, that nervousness has dwindled and I can enjoy watching them flying.
I hope all goes well
Dan

[spiritfreedom]

Inside the box there are two other thingys. One is a can-container of water-syrup. The other is the queen cage, which is about the size of a big guys' thumb, and contains the queen. She is dangling by a thread suspended on the box surface to keep her seperated from her hive. That is for your purpose so you can find her.

*This* is how naive I am. I seriously thought the queen herself was tied to a string and I wondered how the heck someone managed to do such a thing.

[spiritfreedom]

1/2" by what? I usually shoot for about 1/8" wide by 1/2" and then glue it into the groove in the bar. Or a chamfer just cut and nailed and glued on. Whatever you did, if it's in the center of the comb it will probably do ok, but if it's actually 1/2" wide and square on the bottom they will wander from one edge to the next or maybe build part on one edge and part on the other. On 1/8" wide this is not noticable.

My strips of wood are a 1/2" wide by maybe 3/4" deep.

[spiritfreedom]

The one question I have is how tall are the bar guides you made? I read a thread on a different site about bar guides where a beek suggested that the depth of the guide may also encourage the ladies to build straight comb.

I think You could try the bars you made to start. The bees will not fill the hive with comb over night. This would allow you to monitor how they are building comb on the wider strip, and give you a little more time to make bars with a thinner guides If necessary.


They are about 3/4" tall. I think I'll go with that (since they were installed this evening) and check on them tomorrow.

[Michael Bush]

If it came to a point that would work fine. I'd go with 1/8" thick stock and cut it about 1/2" to 3/4" and put it in a groove in the top bar. Or just buy a chamfer molding and cut it to length and nail it on.

[LenInNorCal]

*This* is how naive I am. I seriously thought the queen herself was tied to a string and I wondered how the heck someone managed to do such a thing.

With a really, really, really tiny lasso. That's why it's so popular out in the country side more than the cities.
Seriously, if you put the queen cage into the hive, try and remove it the next day or they'll start building a mess.

Take flicks of your new hive and post them, but since you installed them last night you should wait a few days which is the hardest part in beekeeping, so that's why you need more than one hive.

[spiritfreedom]

With a really, really, really tiny lasso. That's why it's so popular out in the country side more than the cities.

Sounds like an extreme sport to me...


Take flicks of your new hive and post them, but since you installed them last night you should wait a few days which is the hardest part in beekeeping, so that's why you need more than one hive.

I shall (post pics, that is). Seeing as I got a bunch of stings a few days back, and I'm nervous as hell right now, I think I'll hold off on that second hive. Quit drinking the koolaide.