Smelly plastic fondation

[bleta12]

Today I received by UPS some considerable amount of plastic foundation for medium frames, not coated with wax (plain), which I ordered days ago from a beekeeping supplier company with which I had done business for years without a problem.
The boxes were really rough like some one had repacked them back. There was no broken foundation but the foundation was smelling really really bad, like a petroleum base smell, very notable smell.

Yesterday I did receive from the same company the same amount of deep frames and deep plastic foundation, same color not wax coated and there was no problem.

I am going to use medium foundation foundation in my honey suppers so that smell really concerned me. I called the beekeeping company and explained the problem with their medium foundation smell. After going back and forth I was talking with the owner of that company which tried to ensure me that the foundation I had was OK and what I was smelling is oil because all plastic is made from petroleum. I told him that there was something wrong with that smell but he refused to take responsibility and I could return the foundation for a refund but I was responsible for shipping both ways.
He kept doubting my smelling and even said that that may be something that I had done to the foundation or the shipping company. All this while the foundation was sitting on my drive way, minutes after being delivered.
I could not believe it, after so many years of doing business.

I went and showed that medium foundation to a friend of mine. He gets his from the same place, he had some he received a week ago and his was fine. No smell.
I was mad all day but the reality is that I have to do something with this foundation to take that smell out or ship it back and pay for both shipment.
I am not comfortable to use that foundation like that but my friend suggested to air it out in the sun so what ever is there can have a chance to evaporate.

Has anyone had any similar problem with plastic foundations and are there any solutions.

Any suggestion is appreciated.

Thanks Gilman

[Michael Bush]

It sounds like a raw deal, but some soap and a power washer might improve it greatly. Maybe it actually got oil on it from some source.

[bleta12]

Thanks Mike, I put some to air outside and tomorrow I will live some in the sun. My friend recommended that I wash them with some Simple Green all purpose cleaner solution, a non toxic biodegradable solution.
I can ship them back and pay both shipment but I am left with a bad taste, I lost trust in them and I really feel bad about it.

Gilman

[Matt NY]

Help the rest of out and name some names.

A certain amount of off gassing should be expected, depending on the age of the product. The difference in the two items can be the age. Somehow I doubt it.

My problem would not be the money or the product, but the treatment involved.

[BEES4U]

Raid???
I would give them a call to keep them informed and ask them to explain the odor.
Ernie

[VA Farms]

Get two tubs of clean water, dip one that smells in one, and a clean one in the other. If there is oil on the one (like from a small spill) it should cast a noticeable amount of sheen (rainbow color on top of the water) more than the clean one.

You would have a better argument for return at their cost if this showed something wrong?

[bleta12]

I will try to put them in water ans see if anything comes on top.
At this point I would not mention the name of the company but strongly suggest that you smell your plastic foundation before using it and ask questions before you pay for it.


Gilman

[bleta12]

Raid???
I would give them a call to keep them informed and ask them to explain the odor.
Ernie

I had a long talk with the owner and there was nothing I was saying that he would listen. They were trying to tell me that the smell was OK.

Gilman

[PCM]

I use solid plastic frames from Mann Lake, they are very very lightly wax coated,
I smell only the wax, however I do put them in hive boxes, let them air out in the sun for several days, then recoat with a heavier coat of wax.

Really, no odor other than the wax.

Bees take to them fine.

I'm more than satisfied.

Some thing about yours isn't right !

Remeber, Beekeeping is just another expensive hobby !

PCM

[Josh Carmack]

I had a long talk with the owner and there was nothing I was saying that he would listen. They were trying to tell me that the smell was OK.

Gilman

As an ex injection molder (laid Off) I can assure you that a fuel oil odor or other strong petroleum smell is not normal. In normal molding cases, but there are tons of scenarios that would make it normal. Albeit not acceptable for shipping to the customer.

1 The mold was either new or returned from repair or storage and was coated in a preservative to prevent rust. This preservative was not properly removed and the run commenced before the mold was clean.

2 The take out robot was experiencing difficulty for various reasons in removing the moldings from the machine so the operator repeatedly sprayed mold release into the cavities.

3 The cleaning solvent was not dry before molding run commenced. Or the cavity/cavities were gas burning which caused the operator to repeatedly spray the cavities with cleaner during the molding run.

4 The material was allowed to set in the barrel to long or the barrel temp was too high causing a chemical breakdown or change in the molding material. (really easy to do with polystyrene. The material typically used in plastic foundation.)

5 The molder had recently made a color change or material change and the purging material had not completely been purged from the barrel.


I could possibly be incorrect, but I do believe all plastic foundation must be molded with a material and method of molding that is FDA approved for products in direct contact with food.
That being the case I would recall the vendor and explain to them that the foundation MUST be FDA approved for use in food contact, and therefore the petroleum smell you are experiencing has made them unacceptable for food contact and by most state laws they are bound to make every effort to correct the problem. Give that a try, and explain to him you will be sharing you full experience with their company with the hundreds of beekeepers on the internet and other places. If that doesn't help any, then this particular entity is not interested in customer satisfaction, and at which time I would feel quite comfortable telling everyone the names of everyone involved.

[bleta12]

I will try again tomorrow.

[iwombat]

If they're a reseller of the product, you might have better luck with the manufacturer.

[Jack Grimshaw]

Gilman,

The power of the internet.You've gotten some good suggestions.

How about taking one piece,from the center of the box(ie. the smelliest),placing it in a plastic bag and mailing that back to your supplier.then make phone contact.

The problem could have been with the shipper.Who knows what could have spilled in the load.In this case ,the supplier should be your ally

Jack

[J-Bees]

I will try again tomorrow.

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what happened


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[bleta12]

Gilman,

The power of the internet.You've gotten some good suggestions.

How about taking one piece,from the center of the box(ie. the smelliest),placing it in a plastic bag and mailing that back to your supplier.then make phone contact.

The problem could have been with the shipper.Who knows what could have spilled in the load.In this case ,the supplier should be your ally

Jack


Hi Jack,

I called again this morning, we were both in much more reasonable tones.
He agreed to take it back and to pay for the return shipment and he is going to replace the foundation, all what I did ask him originally yesterday. The tone from both parts was conciliatory and it looks that the my problem is solved.
He is going to destroy the bad foundation, it looks that was just a bad batch or so and be much more careful to check all future shipments of that foundation expressing his commitment to good business and beekeeping.

So I believe that was a positive solution.

I would like to thank you all for your suggestions and support. I believe that the Beesource is a very important factor and our supplier read our postings here and our postings and concerns matter. They recognize the power the internet have in this day and age.

I did express to him some of the possible reasons of the problem possibly done by the manufacture and he was listening carefully. Those possible reasons were explained in detail in this thread by Josh and i want to thank him very much.

Thanks again Gilman

[Doxtator]

Mike, Are you using the plastic frames? If so, are you using them for both brood and supers?