House wrap as moisture control

[Blitzz]

I keep reading from all the northern parts about death outs due to moisture/and ventilation issues.

Has anyone use house wrap fabric like tyvek or any other similar for overwintering?


See description in uses and applications.
Weather Protection Design
http://www2.dupont.com/Tyvek_Weatherization/en_US/applications/architects.html

Blitzz

[CentralPAguy]

This was my first winter with my bees and I wanted to protect them from the harsh wind and cold. I have three hives that I bubblewrapped and then taped the black plastic bags around them except for the bottom board.

I removed the bubblewrap and bags around the second week of February.

I also had read posts in this forum about how the condensation between the warmth generated by the bees and the Top Cover would drip down and chill the bees

I thought I was a goner and would need to replace all my bees. But God smiled and all three hives are now active collecting pollen. Who knows.

[Blitzz]

This is my question about the flat top design of the top cover unlike the gable design that will provide with air flow convection that will carry away the moisture similar to gable houses with eves and ridge vents and attic isulation.

I saw in this video clip a black plastic wrap used for insulation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0eKfHBwxDo&feature=related

On this one uses hive internal convection for ventilation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVaYD3e9KOA&feature=related

Still flat tops.

What is the idea behind the use of bubble wrap (clear or Al faced)

to insulate or to warm up the hives?

[CentralPAguy]

Enjoyed both Videos.

[CentralPAguy]

My thought was to use bubblewrap for insulation qualities due to the air pockets. I wrapped the bubblewrap around the hive and super bodies at least twice and maybe three times.

I also wrapped the top cover as well and also put several layers of bubblewrap on it.

I then used heavy black plastic garbage bags and taped them to the bubblewrap in order to capture any heat from the sun.

I can say that my hives were sealed in plastic with the exception of the bottom board.

Two of my hives had wooden inner covers, while one used a screened inner cover. All three hives made it thru the winter.

I would be interested in hearing if any others had wrapped their hives with plastic and what was their survival rates.

[CentralPAguy]

I had used clear bubble wrap

[Blitzz]

Please expand on ventilation,condensation,closed or screened bottom board,entrance?

Was the setup close to the first video,leaving the top uncovered(no plastic)?

[CentralPAguy]

The difference between the first video and myself is that I completely enclosed the hive body and the top with bubblewrap and plastic and only left the opening on the wooden bottom exposed -- The Hives did not have any entrance reduce on them.

The First Hive contained 1 Hive that had 8 frames with fully drawn comb on them. The other 2 frames were partially drawn from the foundation. I had put a shallow super on it and gave it 7 frames of honey. It contained a screened inner cover. It was bubblewrapped entirely with the exception of the entrance which was exposed.

The second and third Hives also had all 10 frames within the Hive drawn out and I left a full shallow super on each. Again, I bubble wrapped them and wrapped plastic around them.

The only ventilation that was coming in for any of these three hives was from the 3/4 inch entrance on the wooden bottom.

The big difference is that in the video, the hive cover went around the hive and left the top exposed. Mine were encapsulated.

They came thru, but I don't think that I would do that again. I have a very big fear that they would have died -- But I am very much interested in the hive covers though. Hope this helps.

[Michael Palmer]

Moisture comes from inside the hive, not outside. For every pound of honey the bees consume in winter, they give off nearly that much in water vapor. I don't think that wrapping with anything will help.

Much of the moisture is condensation, on the side walls and inner cover. The best way to deal with excess moisture is to get rid of it before it condenses...when it's still vapor.

I leave my bottom entrance wide open...with a wedge of 1/2" hardware cloth as mouse protection. I also leave an upper entrance of about 2"x3/8" by cutting a notch in the inner cover rim.

You also need to insulate the top of the inner cover with some type of insulation...an inner cover sized piece of foam insulation, or a super of dry shavings, sawdust, or dry leaves.

Another thing to avoid...do you feed syrup to your bees for winter stores? When? Early enough for the bees to store, ripen, and cap it? Or are you feeding syrup right up to the time when it's too cold to take any more? All thar syrup going into a colony late is a prime cause of excess winter moisture problems. Feed early so the bees can ripen it.

[bleta12]

Excellent points Mike.

Gilman

[Blitzz]

Moisture is a byproduct of bees (beeing) breathing,heat generation.

There is a direct relationship between bees trying to maintain certain temperature and the use of reserves.

If the inside of the hive is too cold, then they will use more reserves to maintain temp and or perish.

I believe in the idea of insulating the walls and floor to provide an oven like environment and also providing enough ventilation and a design of the top cover that will aid in the convection, getting the moisture out of the hive without so much heat loss.

I keep thinking that the analogy would be the gable (^)design in houses with eves and ridge vents convection, pulling the moisture out of the hive though a top layer of thermal insulation with a non vapor barrier .

[wfarler]

Go down to the third topic - making wraps. Good article from beesource 2002.

http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/menus/topics.htm

Allen believes in upper ventilation and a good thick top blanket.

[roweston]

I'm really new here, first post, but I've been doing tons of research on ventilation of hives. It is true that the bees are creating thier own heat and therefore moisture as a byproduct. It's critical that the moisture be able to move out of the hive or the bees will become hypothermic. While doing my research I stumbled upon a unique hive designed by a man in Ontario Canada. This hive configuration works for him in the far North, and should work most anywhere else. Check out his ventilation system here: http://www.beeworks.com/index.html
The problem I've seen with wrapping hives, is that the bees will think that it's actually warmer outside then it really is, and go on a cleansing flight. If the ambiant temp is too cold, they'll fly about 20' from the hive and die of cold. Here in North Idaho, this is a real concern. Most beekeepers I know of here don't wrap thier hives at all.
Scott

[Show-me]

I'm really new here, first post, but I've been doing tons of research on ventilation of hives. It is true that the bees are creating thier own heat and therefore moisture as a byproduct. It's critical that the moisture be able to move out of the hive or the bees will become hypothermic. While doing my research I stumbled upon a unique hive designed by a man in Ontario Canada. This hive configuration works for him in the far North, and should work most anywhere else. Check out his ventilation system here: http://www.beeworks.com/index.html
The problem I've seen with wrapping hives, is that the bees will think that it's actually warmer outside then it really is, and go on a cleansing flight. If the ambiant temp is too cold, they'll fly about 20' from the hive and die of cold. Here in North Idaho, this is a real concern. Most beekeepers I know of here don't wrap thier hives at all.
Scott

I've been reading a lot on this too, here is my two cents.

Bees being warm and toasty in the winter can cause starvation because the become to active and eat too much. Keeping them out of the wind, having a small ventilation space at the top, and having some insulation on top to help prevent condensation is as far as I would personally go. Wet bees in winter are dead bees.

I was going to wrap my hive this winter and decided not to after a seminar and reading a lot here.

Ventilation in the winter is a good thing in moderation if you live in a humid region, m. bush studied that. If you live in a arid region the bees will use some of the condensation for drinking, bwrangler studied that.

Basically you have to adapt to your region to help the bees. Don't over insulate and don't over ventilate.

I am 10 for 10 so far this year and my plan for ventilation this summer is the M. Bush plan, using cedar shims on my top cover when the temps get higher.

[roweston]

Show-me,
I think we're on the same page. Did you get a chance to check out Beeworks? Really good info there. I'm trying his Mod Kit this year on 4 hives. I'll post results later.
Scott