"Green" Fishing Sinkers

[NeilV]

Ben's copper slug post got me to thinking. We have to use non-toxic shot for ducks, but at many of the same places people dump all kinds of lead fishing sinkers into the lakes. Does that cause a problem for waterfowl or other wildlife? Is there a movement afoot to require non-toxic sinkers?

Neil

[alpha6]

People do realize that lead is a naturally occurring element in the earth right? And that it is found in many places including lakes. While I am not for dumping lead just for the heck of it I think the dilution factor of a sinker in a lake would negate any effect it would have.

[MapMan]

The difference is that the waterfowl ingest lead shot, and fish are not likely to eat lead sinkers.

MM

[swamprat]

you cant buy lead sinkers in New York anymore.I dont know what they are made of now.

[Sundance]

I am all for getting "the lead out" in everything that
gets left behind in quantiles. I am sure the quantity
of lead loss in fishing per year is measured in hundreds
of tons.

[Hillside]

I think most of the non-lead fishing gear is a bismuth/tin alloy. They've been pushing it pretty heavily around here. Apparently, a lot of waterfowl are showing signs of severe stress from lead toxicity.

[Scrapfe]

I am all for getting "the lead out" in everything that gets left behind in quanties. I am sure the quantity of lead loss in fishing per year is measured in hundreds of tons.

Heck Sundance, You just agreed with Barry about the high price of .300 Winchester Magnum ammo. Did you stop to think why?

Are you also aware that the US military is firing green ammo at Afghan Terrorist at a cost increase of 10,000% over the old-time lead hardball ammo. :lookout: I know of people who have carried lead bullets inside their bodies for 50 years and have no lead issues. The most famous one I can name off the top of my head is the late former Texas Governor John Conley who was wonuded when JFK was assinated. A quick glance at the new NATO 5.56mm round will reveal a green tip. This is to show it has had the lead taken out. The old hard ball lead projectile cost 1/10 cent per round. The new green bullet cost a dime.

He who the gods would destroy they first make insane. Read the content label on a modern multi vitamin. Several of the heavy metals now promoted in vitamins, like selenium, copper, zinc, etc. were once though to be dangerous poisons, and they are....in large enough amounts, just like H2O is toxic if you drink to much or oxygen if you hyper-ventilate. I predict that one day Flintstone Vitamins will be urging you to buy their new chewable multi vitamins WITH LEAD.

http://ecochildsplay.com/2009/02/17/militarys-green-ammunition-eco-friendly-war/

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_19_16/ai_62349852

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6981996.html

[Zane]

Well put Scrapfe!!! now, lets go fishin':D

[Bizzybee]

I did the whole metallurgy thing in college, but that was way to many years ago to be sure of many things. I know that lead weights that I have pulled from waters fishing had a very nice oxidized layer on them with no evidence of decay. I'm finding it hard to believe that much if any significant amount is leaching out. And it is a naturally occurring element. Not meaning that it needs to be distributed around all over the place where it doesn't need to be, but it is very resistant to corrosion.

Lead alternatives for fishing weights around here have never taken off and I suspect they won't unless forced by law. They don't have the density to match the performance of lead. Just that simple.

I myself have been carrying a piece of lead around in my leg since I was about 14 with no problems. Never once any errors in toxicology reports and I've had many from working around some hazardous substances.

Someone mentioned waterfowl eating the lead. I guess if it were available to them in their feeding areas, they wouldn't discriminate the lead against other particulates they are picking up. They don't seem to care what they filter through to eat. Just from my observance of ducks that I used to have. Stomach acids are pretty wicked and I could see that as being a problem for the birds. But that's just a guess on my part. But I could see some of the lead being leached out of shot in the birds stomachs.

I'm wondering, where are the birds getting the lead? Is it in hunting areas where lead shot is lying around on the ground or in shallow waters where they are feeding? That would be my best guess. No where most people fish would be accessible as feeding area for birds. Birds not dive for bottom feeding that I'm aware of? Only in shoreline shallow water bottom filtering that I know of. That's not typically where fishing weights are lost. And if they are, no bird is likely to get them loose from the structure they are stuck in.

I'm no fan of being regulated to death and being told what I can do or can't. But I'm also not for harming wildlife unnecessarily for our own recreation either. I would like to see hard evidence of claims that lead fishing weights are causing problems and how. Not some cooked up garbage from a bunch of do gooders with a cause.

I know I can be as hard headed as a mule sometimes. But I'm also no moron (debatable :) ) and can be convinced to change my mind, given intelligent and accurate information to make my own determination.

[Sundance]

You're all correct. Lead is good, lead is good.
Now move this thread to Tailgator ASAP.

I remember the same crud being harped when
lead shot was outlawed. The same crud when
lead was outlawed from paint.

Lead is good, lead is great..............:doh:

[Sundance]

I think most of the non-lead fishing gear is a bismuth/tin alloy. They've been pushing it pretty heavily around here. Apparently, a lot of waterfowl are showing signs of severe stress from lead toxicity.

Exactly. Canada does not allow lead fishing weights
from my understanding. No crisis in the industry.

We absolutely know that lead in the water is bad.
It's not open for debate. When there are perfectly
good alternatives, why not?

[jeff123fish]

Around here it was because of loons that they started using lead substitutes. The loons would take up the sinkers and shot into their crops. They (biologists) were testing dead loons and finding that they were dieing of lead poisoning. Maybe the outlawing of lead is for similar reasons with you local ducks.

-Jeff

[alpha6]

"We absolutely know that lead in the water is bad. It's not open for debate."

Sundance no offense but this kind of statement is about as meaningful as saying "Because I said so."

Proof that lead in water is bad? How so? Does it dissolve? No. Please explain. And any topic is open for debate. Saying it isn't is usually a reflection that the person can't defend their argument and thus wants to end the debate.

Or... it could be that this is really a meaningless waste of time and you are trying to get us to move to another topic. :rolleyes:

[Sundance]

Sundance no offense but this kind of statement is about as meaningful as saying "Because I said so."

You are right alpha....... I phrased that wrong.

It should have read lead shot, lead sinkers, lead tire
weights......... solid lead particles.

There is no debate however on the effects of lead
ingested by animals. Similarly, there is no debate
that eating cyanide is bad for you.

As to lead concentrations in the water? I would guess
that it has some effect. But marginal. Unless the body
of water is small.

Lead leaching into water is old news. The use of lead
in home plumbing has been outlawed for decades.

[alpha6]

Good point. I forgot about the lead pipes in houses issue. I remember walking around with lead pellets for my pellet gun in my lip like chewing tobacco. Swallowed more then one. Could explain a lot... :doh:

[Scrapfe]

Well put Scrapfe!!! now, lets go fishin':D

You bring the beer, i'll buy the bait.