Hay and Honey

[555JM]

Hi,
I'm new here and planning my first hives for this Spring. I'm also planning to reseed some played out hayfields on the farmland I own. There's not a lot of acreage involved, maybe 15 acres at most. I'm wondering if anyone else is trying to get both a hay and honey crop off their acreage and, if so, what they're planting.

Back 15 or 20 years ago, my Dad and I used to raise hay on this land and sell it to horse people. They wanted low grade hay for the horses, so orchard grass with a little alfalfa was fine. However, I doubt orchard grass would provide a honey flow. I've still got the haying equipment.

I'm now thinking of seeding to red clover and selling the hay to some local dairies. They often run short and are looking for high grade hay and love to feed red clover.

So, how does red clover work out for honey? I notice Kelley sells white and yellow clover seed, but I don't know if these clovers would provide a good hay crop...anyone know?

How about alfalfa or trefoil? Good for hay but how about honey?

I suppose I could always go with white and yellow clover, mix in some rye grass for the deer and forget about haying. There are plenty of deer to keep fed.
Bob

[brooksbeefarm]

Hi,
I'm new here and planning my first hives for this Spring. I'm also planning to reseed some played out hayfields on the farmland I own. There's not a lot of acreage involved, maybe 15 acres at most. I'm wondering if anyone else is trying to get both a hay and honey crop off their acreage and, if so, what they're planting.

Back 15 or 20 years ago, my Dad and I used to raise hay on this land and sell it to horse people. They wanted low grade hay for the horses, so orchard grass with a little alfalfa was fine. However, I doubt orchard grass would provide a honey flow. I've still got the haying equipment.

I'm now thinking of seeding to red clover and selling the hay to some local dairies. They often run short and are looking for high grade hay and love to feed red clover.

So, how does red clover work out for honey? I notice Kelley sells white and yellow clover seed, but I don't know if these clovers would provide a good hay crop...anyone know?

How about alfalfa or trefoil? Good for hay but how about honey?

I suppose I could always go with white and yellow clover, mix in some rye grass for the deer and forget about haying. There are plenty of deer to keep fed.
Bob

I would go with alfalfa or ladino clover for bees and hay. White and yellow sweet clover doesn't make good hay, the bees toung is not long enough to work red clover and i don't know anything about the trefoil. Good luck, Jack

[magnet-man]

You might look into hairy vetch it makes good honey and decent hay. Alfalfa I have been told doesn't make all that good of a table honey.

[RayMarler]

alfalfa honey is light and sweet, similar to clover honey. It sells well, but most of us beeks prefer a honey with a bit more flavor other than just sweet. Alfalfa should do good for the hay, can get multiple cuts a season.

[slickbrightspear]

if you do the alfalfa you have to wait until after the bloom to get a honey crop and then you get stemmy alfalfa hay wich is not real good hay. sweet clover can also produce coumarin which can cause problems as a hay if it gets moldy. ladino clover good honey doesn't produce a whole lot of hay but it would be real good quality usually.

[Camp9]

slickbrightspear has got that right. In order to have high quality hay to sell to a dairy farm you need to cut it before it blossoms. Trefoil will have a very long blossom peroid, so you can make high quality hay and get bee forage at the same time. It won't yield as well though, and takes a while to establish itself. We plant red clover with it, and by the time the red dies out the trefoil will assert itself. Some dairy farms are looking for low quality forage to mix with in their TMR, so you might be able to find a market for that hay, but just won't get a high price for it. There are lots of give and take. Depending on how many hives you want, a alfalfa timothy mix is great for horses, you can let some of the alfalfa bloom and then cut it for hay. The timothy won't come back in the second cutting because its a cool season grass, and you'll get another bloom off the alfalfa.

Camp

[justgojumpit]

I second the cutting before bloom for the best quality hay. The best value off the land, balancing between quality and quantity of hay, is right at the onset of flowering, when the flower just starts to come out of the grass. This is called the boot stage. After this point, the grass gets stalky and digestibility goes way down. I would plant the field for hay, and manage it that way, and then throw some seed from a good bee forage plant at the edges of the field where you can't quite get to with the baler, as well as along hedgerows, and maybe you could even donate some pretty flowers along the road if you live in a rural area and won't be messing up anyone's garden! In my area, the edge of the road only gets mown once or twice a year.

justgojumpit

[justgojumpit]

I second the cutting before bloom for the best quality hay. The best value off the land, balancing between quality and quantity of hay, is right at the onset of flowering, when the flower just starts to come out of the grass. This is called the boot stage. After this point, the grass gets stalky and digestibility goes way down. I would plant the field for hay, and manage it that way, and then throw some seed from a good bee forage plant at the edges of the field where you can't quite get to with the baler, as well as along hedgerows, and maybe you could even donate some pretty flowers along the road if you live in a rural area and won't be messing up anyone's garden! In my area, the edge of the road only gets mown once or twice a year.

justgojumpit

[555JM]

Thanks for the guidance, guys. I was beginning to wonder about timing an alfalfa cut. In the past, the hay was always better if cut before the blossoms took over. Maybe should talk to some horse people and see if hay from past-its-prime alfalfa that has bloomed would be OK for their steeds. They were always pretty steady customers in the past as few had the acreage or the machinery to tackle haying.

I have plenty of edges and areas planted to well-spaced evergreens...semi-open spaces, but too tight for the baler. Looks like they'd benefit from a sweet clover planting. Could experiment a bit with mixing in some rye grass and maybe turnip seed for deer winter forage. Seems like I've seen deer plot mixes that mixed sweet clover, rye grass and turnips. Also could try to get some trefoil established...never worked with that before.

Probably alfalfa with a timothy mix would be best for the open acreage, like Camp suggested. If I can cut the alfalfa, before it before it blooms it can go to the dairymen as high grade hay. If I'm late, the bees can take a crack at it and then it can be sold to whoever wants low-grade hay when it's cut.

Only planning a few hives to start with. I figure the maximum for that property would be something shy of a dozen...maybe 8 or 10. Being new, I really don't know. On three sides I'm surrounded by game preserve. To the east there are a few neighbors and some light agriculture.

BTW, what happens to alfalfa if it blooms, goes to seed and isn't taken off for hay? Would it mess up the field for next year, die out or....what? If it messes up the field, would bush hogging it be sufficient?

Thanks for tolerating my rambling.
Bob

[Camp9]

BTW, what happens to alfalfa if it blooms, goes to seed and isn't taken off for hay? Would it mess up the field for next year, die out or....what? If it messes up the field, would bush hogging it be sufficient?

Thanks for tolerating my rambling.
Bob

It goes to seed if conditions are right. We take seed crops off all the time, but alfalfa is a little trickerier than clovers. It won't reseed itself very well and won't mess up the field, won't die either, except that you'll have the old hay mixed with your first cutting the following year.

Camp

[Kieck]

Why not plant a mix? Say, alfalfa planted thinly over a planting of white clover or ladino clover? Leave the clover for the bees, cut a little higher and get a little less volume of alfalfa hay from on top.

[justgojumpit]

Clover gets pretty tall if it is not continually mowed. It will grow to the same height as the other forage, so you will not be able to separate it out without a toothpick! Good thought though.

justgojumpit

[Kieck]

Hm, out here in drier climates, white clover tends not to get very tall unless it gets pretty crowded. If the alfalfa is planted pretty thinly (and I know this means that the hay crop will be significantly reduced), the clover between would get taller than if it were mowed regularly, but wouldn't reach the height of the alfalfa. Some of the clover might get cut and mixed in with the alfalfa, but I suspect you could hit some sort of compromise between flowering plants (clover) for the bees while getting high-quality hay (pre-bloom alfalfa and some clover) off the same ground.

The species or cultivars in combination will likely need to be adjusted for your location, but I think you could come up with some combination to meet both goals.

[talkingamoeba]

As a farmer and beekeeper, I have been planting alsike clover and trefoil mixed with timothy, cut when trefoil is half bloom you still get high quality first cutting and the bees get some too.