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Anthony Ritenour
02-06-2009, 12:14 PM
In your hive beetle traps, what do you use? Just mineral oil? Also, do any of use any other method to deal with them?

Panhandle Bee man
02-06-2009, 06:30 PM
Cheap vegatable oil. Kills good, a lot cheaper than mineral oil, I also know of people who use water, and dish soap.

slickbrightspear
02-06-2009, 06:36 PM
olive oil or corn oil or what ever is cheapest.

brooksbeefarm
02-06-2009, 07:33 PM
I use a migatory lid, a screen bottomboard with a pan of veg. oil uder the screen bottomboard. With this setup the little buggers don't have many places to hide.:D.The best preventive measure is to keep your hives strong.:thumbsup:.Good luck.Jack

little55
02-06-2009, 08:49 PM
I had a commercial beek tell me to take one of those political signs and cut it into about 10 pieces with the holes that run inside those signs. Then take one of the pieces and slit it against the grain and fold it in half. You do not want to cut it completely in two. When you fold it you can see down the little holes at this point take fipronil or roach bait at wal mart and squirt it down the holes. Next you fold it back together and tape it where the bees cannot get to the bait. Then you place it in the brood area. The beetles can crawl in and eat the bait an die but the bees cannot. The only problem is I don't think this is an approved product for bee hives but he says it works.

Panhandle Bee man
02-06-2009, 09:04 PM
laundry detergent works, also hydrated Lime

Jim Williamson
02-06-2009, 09:53 PM
I had a commercial beek tell me to take one of those political signs and cut it into about 10 pieces with the holes that run inside those signs. Then take one of the pieces and slit it against the grain and fold it in half. You do not want to cut it completely in two. When you fold it you can see down the little holes at this point take fipronil or roach bait at wal mart and squirt it down the holes. Next you fold it back together and tape it where the bees cannot get to the bait. Then you place it in the brood area. The beetles can crawl in and eat the bait an die but the bees cannot. The only problem is I don't think this is an approved product for bee hives but he says it works.

It never ceases to amaze me what some folks will put inside their hives. Here is some, hopefully, scary information on fipronil:


Fipronil is a broad spectrum insecticide that disrupts the insect central nervous system by blocking the passage of chloride ions through the GABA receptor and glutamate-gated chloride channels (GluCl), components of the central nervous system. This causes hyperexcitation of contaminated insects' nerves and muscles. Insect specificity of fipronil may come from a better efficacy on GABA receptor but also on the fact that GluCl does not exist in mammals.

Fipronil is a slow acting poison. When mixed with a bait it allows the poisoned insect time to return to the colony or haborage. In cockroaches the feces and carcass can contain sufficient residual pesticide to kill others in the same nesting site. In ants, the sharing of the bait among colony members assists in the spreading of the poison throughout the colony. With the cascading effect, the projected kill rate is about 95% in 3 days for ants and cockroaches.

Toxic baiting with Fipronil has also been shown to be extremely effective in locally eliminating German wasps (yellowjackets). All colonies within foraging range are completely eliminated within one week.

Wildlife impacts include the following:

Fipronil is highly toxic to fish and aquatic invertebrates. Its tendency to bind to sediments and its low water solubility may reduce the potential hazard to aquatic wildlife.
Fipronil is toxic to bees and should not be applied to vegetation when bees are foraging.

Jim Williamson
02-06-2009, 10:12 PM
Back to the topic at hand ...

Cider vinegar with a bit of ripe banana peel seems to attract SHB to the trap.

Of course, the flat side of a hive tool pressed firmly to their backsides also terminates their presence on the inner cover, which is where our colonies tend to herd the beetles. It is a very satisfying process and, to date, there has been no noticable resistance.

Big John
02-07-2009, 12:54 PM
http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com/2007/05/small-hive-beetle-trap-saga.html

Look at Linda's Bees, making the sonney-nel small hive beetle trap, she has a good idea on the traps and recipe to attrack SHB.

idav5d
02-07-2009, 01:02 PM
I had a commercial beek tell me to take one of those political signs and cut it into about 10 pieces with the holes that run inside those signs. Then take one of the pieces and slit it against the grain and fold it in half. You do not want to cut it completely in two. When you fold it you can see down the little holes at this point take fipronil or roach bait at wal mart and squirt it down the holes. Next you fold it back together and tape it where the bees cannot get to the bait. Then you place it in the brood area. The beetles can crawl in and eat the bait an die but the bees cannot. The only problem is I don't think this is an approved product for bee hives but he says it works.

Without using poison :no:, you can use the political sign idea. Seal the end with a bit of crisco, sprinkle a bit of boric acid down the holes. The bees will corral the beetles into the signs, and the beetles will get hungry enough to consume the boric acid.

little55
02-08-2009, 08:21 AM
I was being a little sarcastic about the fipronil I know sarcasm does not always come across that way on here but any way. I went to the Alabama Beekeepers Symposium @ Auburn University yesterday and Dennis Barclift State Apiarist spoke on hive beetles. They had been doing some test on them he said that they concluded that a mixture of pollen, yeast, honey, and water inside of traps worked the best. he said they trapped outside of the hive and even larve was drawn to the concoction.

Dr.Wax
02-08-2009, 04:21 PM
They had been doing some test on them he said that they concluded that a mixture of pollen, yeast, honey, and water inside of traps worked the best. he said they trapped outside of the hive and even larve was drawn to the concoction.

I would be afraid that would lure them from miles around although I have no evidence for that. Their sense of smell is incredible, they can detect bee alarm phermone at much lower levels than the bees themselves for example, so it probably makes no difference.

I use cheap vegetable oil. It can be messy but I have found nothing beats the West trap.

In the future I plan to incorporate Russian bees into my breeding program since I read recently a study showed they have lower levels of beetles than Italians. The Russians would carry the adults out of the hive while the Italians completely failed to do so.

little55
02-08-2009, 09:46 PM
Barclift said he had witnessed bees actually feeding and grooming hive beetles he said they have some kind of genetic or pheromone disguise. He said if he could figure out why bees accepted them inside the hive for the most part that he could retire.

idav5d
02-13-2009, 03:46 PM
I had a commercial beek tell me to take one of those political signs and cut it into about 10 pieces with the holes that run inside those signs.

I got the FatBeeMan to endure the camera, and give us his version of this cheap and effective trap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_KDPp8H6PU&feature=channel_page

We're in a SHB area and you'd be challenged to find more than a few in his hives. It's one of the first things that I incorporated after checking out his operation.

beemandan
02-13-2009, 04:06 PM
I got the FatBeeMan to endure the camera, and give us his version of this cheap and effective trap.

Thanks for sharing. An interesting idea......I'll give it a try.

beemandan
02-14-2009, 04:41 AM
I'm thinkin' that I might try fatbeeman's beetle trap but make one modification. Instead of stapling it to the bottom board, I think I'll staple it to a paint stirring stick. Then I'll slide it into the hive on the end of the stick and be able to remove, clean and replace it without opening and removing all the supers....a bit less disruptive.

USCBeeMan
02-15-2009, 07:13 AM
Watched Fatman's video. While watching it I got to thinking. You don't need corragated plastic to do what he's doing. Plastic straws!!! Just glue together some small plastic straws or perhaps better yet the coffee stirring straws. Stirring straws are probably to small. Can use 2 very thin pieces of wood to glue the straws against (like popcicle sticks).

The only think I didn't like was the idea of having to take the hive down to the bottom board every 3 or 4 months.

So that made me think a little more. I purchased some SHB swatters on eBay for almost nothing. Didn't really know what to do with them at the time since I just started beekeeping. But I know that I have seen a lot of SHBs and my Italians just ignore them.

I am going to take these swatters and used them with boric acid and crisco. Then slide them in the hive on the bottom board letting the long handle just sit there. Every so often I can pull them out, check for SHBs, remove them dead beetles or kill them if still alive, and then reuse them again as described above.

But I have 1 questions and 1 thought:

Does it have to be Crisco or any shortening?

Based on my experience with my bees and SHBs there ain't going to be no hearding of SHBs. My girls are not country girls rounding up cattle and I doubt any of the Italians are SHB Girls! SHBs look for very dark corners to hide and live while in the hive (like cockroaches). So I believe they are just naturally eating the crisco and then going into the dark openings.

JMHO

idav5d
02-15-2009, 07:16 PM
I don't think they're brand conscious, lol, you can probably use the dollar store brand.
I don't know if the bees are actually riding roughshod over the beetles and herding them, but the bees will bite at them and the beetles will hide in the traps and eat the boric acid.
Gluing straws together sounds more time consuming than cutting up the political signs, but I do like the idea of putting them on sticks...:applause:

mgmoore7
02-15-2009, 09:01 PM
I want to try fatbeeman's method as well. 1 point & 1 question

1. Does it work the same if I am using a screened bottom board. Will the beetles go down there. Never really looked. I usually only see them in the honey supers.

2. I guess it should only be done at the bottom of the hive in case the boric acid with spilled for some reason. The reason I ask is partially because of my 1st question and also since putting it under the top would make it easy to check and replace.

I two don't like the idea of dismantling the hives every 3-4 months to replace. I like the ideo of putting it on a stick.

beemandan
02-16-2009, 04:58 AM
Does it have to be Crisco or any shortening?I'm pretty sure I heard him say, more than once, that it didn't matter what brand.

tecumseh
02-16-2009, 05:00 AM
usc writes:
Based on my experience with my bees and SHBs there ain't going to be no hearding of SHBs. My girls are not country girls rounding up cattle and I doubt any of the Italians are SHB Girls! SHBs look for very dark corners to hide and live while in the hive (like cockroaches). So I believe they are just naturally eating the crisco and then going into the dark openings.

tecumseh:
well I would suggest to ya' usc that my italian most definitely will run groups of the shb like a herd of cattle (or more like shelties herding up sheep) along the edge of the bottom board... seen it with my own eyes and more than once I might add. some (I have no idea if this could be a genetic predisposition) will run them right out the front entrance... where I on occasions sometime find small clumps of shb hanging just outside the front entrance under the bottom board. I have nothing else here but italian of some kind or form.

ps... as a trapping device with no poison or lure: I have use one of those plastic (vinyl I think) single page sheet covers which I laid on the top bars, place a couple of very small nails (trim nails) along the slitted opening. I came back a week later and found a goodly number of shb hiding between the plastic sheet (quite evidently to get away from the bees). squishing them with my hive tool was quite delightful. I tried the same thing on the bottom board, but found the girls quickly propolized up the opening in the plastic sheet.

beemandan
02-16-2009, 05:04 AM
1. Does it work the same if I am using a screened bottom board. Will the beetles go down there. Never really looked. I usually only see them in the honey supers. .
Many of my hives have screened bottom boards. I see shb along the bottom edges of the brood box frequently even with the screened bottoms.



2. I guess it should only be done at the bottom of the hive in case the boric acid with spilled for some reason. I think spilled boric acid, even on a solid bottom board would kill bees. A screened bottom would reduce that threat.

Does anyone know where to buy bulk boric acid?

USCBeeMan
02-16-2009, 05:33 AM
usc writes:
Based on my experience with my bees and SHBs there ain't going to be no hearding of SHBs. My girls are not country girls rounding up cattle and I doubt any of the Italians are SHB Girls! SHBs look for very dark corners to hide and live while in the hive (like cockroaches). So I believe they are just naturally eating the crisco and then going into the dark openings.

tecumseh:
well I would suggest to ya' usc that my italian most definitely will run groups of the shb like a herd of cattle (or more like shelties herding up sheep) along the edge of the bottom board... seen it with my own eyes and more than once I might add. some (I have no idea if this could be a genetic predisposition) will run them right out the front entrance... where I on occasions sometime find small clumps of shb hanging just outside the front entrance under the bottom board. I have nothing else here but italian of some kind or form.

ps... as a trapping device with no poison or lure: I have use one of those plastic (vinyl I think) single page sheet covers which I laid on the top bars, place a couple of very small nails (trim nails) along the slitted opening. I came back a week later and found a goodly number of shb hiding between the plastic sheet (quite evidently to get away from the bees). squishing them with my hive tool was quite delightful. I tried the same thing on the bottom board, but found the girls quickly propolized up the opening in the plastic sheet.

tecumseh,

I don't doubt you one bit. But I have watched the SHBs and the bees basically walk right past each other with no reactions by either. I have seen the bees kinda bump into them and move around them like they are just another bee. What I have seen has been on supers not a bottom board. Perhaps it is different on the bottom board.

Perhaps the amount of beetles in the hive has something to do with the bees behavior with them. Mine are not infested with the beetles. I might find 2 or 3, maybe 5 or 10 at the most at any one time.

I am not a veteran beekeeper so I have a lot to learn and I guess that I am showing my ignorance.

Bizzybee
02-16-2009, 06:22 AM
I have never really paid much attention to the bottoms of the BB's. I would guess that it may be similar to what I find at my screened inner covers and that would be beetles hiding out above the wire around the edges on the wood frame. The bees typically keep the beetles pushed up in that area and I'm just guessing that they will do the same on the other end of the hive.

When I pop a top on a hive that has them, most of them of course scurry to get out of the light. Some dive off in the hive while others seem to avoid entering the hive at all costs. They are quickly disposed of with the ole hive tool, all the while those that dove off into the hive start coming back up with the bees hot on their tails so that they can meet mr. hive tool themselves.

I don't have many italian bees left that resemble a true italian much anymore. Not for any reason other than how I have been breeding the bees. Most are now predominately carnie to a more even mix of the two. Some russian and russian mixes in a couple of yards. I can only say what I have observed over time with the beetles. And that is that I have consistently saw more beetles in the italian hives than in the carnie/russian hives including the mixes. But at best, I see varying degrees of rejection of the beetles across any given yard. Some hives typically have little to no beetles on one end while some have plenty. I would say that the model would fit well into the typical bell curve.

Knock on wood, and this year may prove different but I still have yet to loose a hive to these devils. Including all three races of bees.

I have noticed on a couple of yards where the bees set under a canopy of trees that there is a pretty good number of skinks that hang out under the top covers on the screens. And I see them scurry out from under the hives if I'm moving things around. I see very few beetles in those hives and I can't help but wonder if they are waiting for free meals to be chased up out of the hives? Maybe they are dining on an occasional bee? I figure if they are, they can't eat to many and everybody has to eat somewhere. Seems like an awful strange coincidence that they are where the beetles aren't though.

I know the traps you folks are talking about. Don showed them to me some years ago. I tried them out during one season and didn't see any affect, some weren't even touched. But from what I've seen in my hives I don't really see that the beetles spend much time inside the hives to get to them. I guess if you keep bees differently than I do, probably most do, and you have a ready presence of beetles inside your hives, they would probably work well.

If nothing else it helps get rid of those stinking political signs all over the road sides!! :)

tecumseh
02-16-2009, 06:31 AM
ken:
it does appear to me that the degree to which a hive will or will not tolerate the shb is quite variable. on any number of hives (especially those with few shb which fall along the numbers you describe in your prior post) they do pretty much as you have described. on others generally with more robust worker bee numbers I have seen the herding like behavior, but only on the bottom board and never at the top of the stack.

I would also suggested that gappy equipment (ie rotten or poorly made) is perhaps a problem that encourages the shb. in conjunction with this concern I have not tried plastic type frames due to the many hiding places they provide for the shb.

as a EXTREMELY casual observation bees that seem to proposlize quite a bit seem to manage the shb better than those that don't. the bees we have here in the us of a are quite mixed (mongrols largely with the idea of pure bred bees being largely illusionary imho).. however the northern european races did propolize more than their southern european cousins.