Annual requeening

[Boris]

Many commercial and hobby beekeepers practice annual requeening, while others only requeen hives with failing queens...

The Betterbee catalog contains a description of the book "The Hive And The Honeybee" (by Joe M. Graham, Dadant & Sons): "The 25th edition of the 'bible' of practical beekeeping. This 1,324 page reference work covers every aspect of bees and beekeeping through 27 exhaustive chapters (each by a different expert). A must-have! An ideal gift for any beekeeper."

According to this "bible," "The average queen lives one to two years, but she is dependable as a vigorous egg layer for only one year. This is why requeening colonies at least once a year is very important." (p.349)

I do not agree with this recommendation and would like to provide some facts and calculations:

- The average queen mates with 15 to 20 drones within one to two days. Since she will never mate again, these sperm must suffice for the duration of the queen's reproductive life (QRL).
- In the process of natural mating, queens collect about five to six million sperm. The sperm migrate to and are stored in the queen's abdomen (called spermatheca) for years.
- Bees are unlike most animals, in which one sperm fertilizes one egg. Queens need to retain 5-6 million sperm to fertilize about two million eggs.
- A naturally-mated good queen can lay up to 3,000 eggs a day (but not every day) and totally from 150,000 - to 300,000 eggs per season!
- Usually, a naturally-mated queen lays more eggs on the daily basis and lives longer than an artificially inseminated queen.

A simple calculation shows us roughly the real potential of a good queen:
QRL (number of years) = 2,000,000 : 150,000 (300,000).

The result of this calculation is very close to Gilbert Waldbauer's statement: "...Since she will never mate again, these sperm must suffice for the duration of her reproductive life. During her tenure in the colony, usually about two years, but as long as eight years if she is coddled by the beekeeper, she lays as many as 2 million eggs..."

Therefore, I think annual requeening could be recommended for an artificially inseminated queen, but not for a good, naturally-mated queen.

My beekeeping practice is very similar to G.M. Doolittle's approach:
"After experimenting in the direction of superseding queen for years, I now decidedly prefer to leave it to the bees to decide when their queens are worn out... As a general thing, the bee will make fever mistakes in directing this delicate matter than the wisest apiarist is likely to make...I never supersede a nice queen, no matter how old, until she shows signs of failing powers."

More details will be posted here:
http://www.beebehavior.com/requeening.php

Boris

[Brandy]

I would respect what you say and your right to say it. But my concerns with older queens are you don't know when the bee's decide that they need to supercede their queen. If she starts failing, Nov., Dec., Jan., Feb., March, April, I'm out of luck. Going into winter with young queens is insurance in my mind. Just my two cents.

[beemandan]

Although I don't practice it myself, I understand why many good beekeepers replace their queens annually. The amount of stored sperm and the potential limits to laying fertilized eggs are only part of the equation. There are any number of other failure modes. Stored sperm becomes unviable. The queen's exposure to high and low temperatures. Her nutriton. Pests, parasites and diseases. Old age. Other things I haven't even considered. I've had any number of hives fail in the spring when the existing queen fails. The queen's still there but she either isn't laying eggs at all or unfertilized eggs. At the end of the previous season she looked fine. Its been relatively common, in my experience.

Having said that, I had one queen who made gobs of brood for three full seasons before being superceded in her fourth. Personally, I just can't bring myself to pinch a queen who is going gangbusters....so I don't. But, I surely understand why some very good beekeepers do.

[livetrappingbymatt]

I have a problem killing a queen? this is what I do.
find old queen,catch her and put her in a 5 frame nuc box,add 1-3 frames of brood,honey,pollen.
install new queen in hive.If she takes,Good! if not I still have old queen.Can be put back! if new queen is excepted in hive the nuc is left as is. Nuc will grew quickly,some how this revitalizes that old queen? Shortly she will lay replacement.These cells can be used for more increases and one left in nuc.
it's a win,win project.
bob

[ME Beekeeper]

I've played with this a bit myself. As I re-queened, I took a two year old queen and put her in a nuc box to continue in a smaller environment. She was able to continue being productive for another 2 years in the nuc box. Her hive was turning hot, very ugly. When she was in her prime, she controlled a very gentle hive, productive, and wintered very well. Her nuc just succumbed this winter season to nosema. I used her for breeding queens for two years. I guess it's time for her daughters to step up now. :applause:

[Texas Bee]

I have a problem killing a queen? this is what I do.
find old queen,catch her and put her in a 5 frame nuc box,add 1-3 frames of brood,honey,pollen.
install new queen in hive.If she takes,Good! if not I still have old queen.Can be put back! if new queen is excepted in hive the nuc is left as is. Nuc will grew quickly,some how this revitalizes that old queen? Shortly she will lay replacement.These cells can be used for more increases and one left in nuc.
it's a win,win project.
bob

Bravo !!!! Exactly what I did, pull the old queen out, the nuc box grew quick. I had 6 new queens ( more than I knew what to do with ) in the old box. I think it's called a walk-a-way split.

[bleta12]

I do a lot of requeening, mostly with cells, which helps me with swarm prevention in my honey comb production season.
All the queens with good brood pattern and other desirable characteristics are saved and given a chance to lead other smaller colonies. The queens that are not impressive are killed.
Genetics is the main reason that I like there good old queens around, they may produce some drones that may mate with the virgins.
Last year I did graft some larvae from a good looking, nice brood very dark old queen marked Green, I believe she was 4 years old. She was put in a nuc and some time in summer she started failing, and was superseded.
Under normal conditions a queen reared and matted in good conditions in a healthy not stressed colony, may lead the colony for at least 2 years or more.

Gilman

[Michael Bush]

It also seems to me that doing a good job of replacing a failing queen successfully is a genetic trait. And since it is, we should be breeding for it.

[alpha6]

It also seems to me that doing a good job of replacing a failing queen successfully is a genetic trait. And since it is, we should be breeding for it.

It seems to me that I read somewhere where we actually may have breed this out of bees when they were trying to prevent bees from swarming. :scratch:

Not nice to fool with mother nature. :lookout:

[wayacoyote]

Also, in our haste to "out breed" the mites, keep our hives at Maximum production versus Optimum production, etc, etc I've wondered if we're not pushing for queens that are what we are trying to avoid - short-lived productivity. A lecturer at our recent bee school said, "the Best thing you can do to prevent swarming in the spring is to requeen in the fall."

I began to wonder: If a hive's goal is to have as healthy a colony as possible come spring so that it can reproduce (swarm) with the nectar flow, Why doesn't this guy's swarm? What is it about these new young queens that convinces a hive that it shouldn't/couldn't swarm?

But on the flip side of the coin, Walt Wright pointed out that his nectar managed hives will supercedure. Perhaps bees Want a new queen each year. "Send any old sucessful mother out with a swarm, any that can't produce a swarm, supercedure her." What really do the bees want to do when we aren't in the way?

[Michael Palmer]

It seems to me that I read somewhere where we actually may have breed this out of bees when they were trying to prevent bees from swarming.

It'll never happen. You can't breed swarming out of bees. But, in my opinion, you can select for bees that have a lower propensity to swarm. Some bees requeen themselves by supercedure, and some by swarming. Select from stocks that don't swarm at the drop of a hat, and you'll have bees that aren't swarmy. Leave them to get their broodnests plugged with nectar, and they'll swarm for sure, no matter what you've selected for.

[Michael Palmer]

I've wondered if we're not pushing for queens that are what we are trying to avoid - short-lived productivity.

What I wonder is...if we're requeening all our colonies each year, how can we select for queens that will last two years, or three years.

[wayacoyote]

Exactly, Michael P.

Reading about the "Fathers" and their queens' longevity, I'm trying to comprehend. For some of them, swarming wasn't an undesirable trait and was prefered as it increased their hive-count. Perhaps these queens that lived so long were found year after year, not in the same hive, but in their apiary in each year's swarm. I don't know.

In humans, we're living longer and longer thanks to the addition of medicines and treatments. In bees, the queens are living shorter and shorter because of it. As I said under the Surviver Stock thread, it seems that the greatest hazard the queens have to survive is the pinching fingers of their beekeeper once they've lived to the ripe-old age of 12 months.

[Boris]

The key element of Gilbert Waldbauer's statement is here: “…if she is coddled by the beekeeper…”

I can avoid (prevent) swarmings and keep my queens healthy for at least 3-5 years by providing plenty of room (!!!) for queen egg laying in the brood nest and so on...
Therefore, for me personally, annual requeening is a nonsense.

Boris

[BEES4U]

:thumbsup:The late summer or fall introduced queen is both physiologicaly and chronologicaly young. She has not been taxed by the rigors of spring build up!

Regards,
Ernie