Bronze Gear Pump

[BeeTeach]

I am trying to build a sump setup. I would appreciate if someone would post the make and model # of the honey pump they are using. In looking at the pump manufacturers websites I am not sure what specs. to look for. Also, any ideas for the sump? Thanks!

[MAXANT]

We use a bronze gear pump. Model 400-1 Maxant.

[BeeTeach]

Nice unit. Financially not what I had in mind though. I have plenty of motors and the means to fabricate the rest. Just need a pump. Hey, I thought I was the one fishing here!

[BeeTeach]

I am still trying to make this happen. My questions is, I notice that some manufacturers application to what they suggest for pumping honey, ie. Oberdorfer, use a cast bronze pump, but other manufacturers, ie. Viking and Roper, are steel. Are both food grade?

[RDY-B]

arnt the cavities on the steel pumps coated with food grade epoxy-from factory-RDY-B

[bermybee]

I am still trying to make this happen. My questions is, I notice that some manufacturers application to what they suggest for pumping honey, ie. Oberdorfer, use a cast bronze pump, but other manufacturers, ie. Viking and Roper, are steel. Are both food grade?

:popcorn:
DADANT AND MANN LAKE both use Roper's 1 .5 inch 2835p (the p stands for TFE [Teflon] packing) it's actually a Cast Iron pump with steal gears and iron bearing. The real nice thing about it is, it has a built in pressure relief valve so it's perfect for use with a pressurized filter after the pump.

Same pump i use....http://s562.photobucket.com/albums/ss61/bermybee/?action=view&current=CopyofDSC00868.jpg




“The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory.”

[HVH]

I have the Maxant pump which works pretty well but I would like it better it it could be reversed. Does anyone use a reversible motor or am I missing something?

[RDY-B]

if you change the wireing on the motor the rotation will change -guse you could do some kind of switch-why do you want it to run backwards :rolleyes:
is the maxant pump inch or inch and one half -i have a one inch from mannlke bare minumum BREMMYBEE how hot are you heating your honey to pump my set up is the same extractor sump and canister strainer but with one inch pump i had to dedicate a circate and wried the motor for 220 volts or it would pop the restart on mottor-which looks the same 3/4 horse :) RDY-B

[bermybee]

I have the Maxant pump which works pretty well but I would like it better it it could be reversed. Does anyone use a reversible motor or am I missing something?

Depending on the type and model of motor and the voltage used how often you plan on changing directions?????? This can be achieved by a simple Double pole double throw (DPDT) or Double pole center off (DPCO the Better choice) switch. You can also use a Drum reversing switch witch is basically same thing just cost more and probably your safer bet.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/productIndex.shtml?L2=Drum&operator=prodIndexRefinementSearch&originalValue=drum+switch&L1=Control+Switches%2C

DON'T FOR GET TO CHECK WITH MAXANT ON THE PUMPS BEHALF. THE PUMP MIGHT NOT LIKE TO BE DRIVEN IN REVERSE??????????

[HVH]

Thanks RDY-B and bermybee.

I have the smaller one inch pump and have added camlock fittings on hose ends and at the ends of my clarifier, uncapping tray, and pump. If I could reverse the pump (I will look into the switch - thanks bermybee for that info) then I could clear the lines into the clarifier, close the valve at the clarifier and remove the hoses without much mess.

[bermybee]

if you change the wireing on the motor the rotation will change -guse you could do some kind of switch-why do you want it to run backwards
is the maxant pump inch or inch and one half -i have a one inch from mannlke bare minumum BREMMYBEE how hot are you heating your honey to pump my set up is the same extractor sump and canister strainer but with one inch pump i had to dedicate a circate and wried the motor for 220 volts or it would pop the restart on mottor-which looks the same 3/4 horse :) RDY-B


:popcorn:
About 115 F, but on start up (before the sump heats up the next day) with that 1.5 inch Roper (pressure relief) I could run cold honey all day to a clogged filter. The pressured filter on the pump outlet is the only reason i would want to heat the honey up more.

As for the restart popping off, not to sound like a stooge, if the pump has a pressure relief valve [over load]( I'm betting on that it doesn't :no::no: {adjustment maybe})???????? or sounds like a wiring fault in the motor wiring how long does the pump run for??? Does it kick out right away?

220v 3/4HP dedicated circuit no way that should be kicking out. I'm running 120v 3/4hp with the sump heater and the 60 framer on the same breaker no problem.

[bermybee]

Thanks RDY-B and bermybee.

I have the smaller one inch pump and have added camlock fittings on hose ends and at the ends of my clarifier, uncapping tray, and pump. If I could reverse the pump (I will look into the switch - thanks bermybee for that info) then I could clear the lines into the clarifier, close the valve at the clarifier and remove the hoses without much mess.

Sounds great :thumbsup: :thumbsup:.. was going to do the same thing for clean up:cool: but I'm using a check valve to hold the honey in the air (stops form re-entering the sump) after it leaves the pump.

[RDY-B]

the problem was with the pump starting overcoming ential resistance the pump was first wierd for 110 -at the same time that i had the wiring changed to 220 and dedicated the circut-i changed lines up from one inch -to two inch lines -pump only one inch in and out-now it works ok but just ok honey needs to be very warm;) i also had a circut dedicated to the sump the extractor (60) runs on the same circut as the uncapper and cappings spiner my weak link is the one inch pump you say you could pump cold honey-these things we learn come with a price tag:p tried to be thriftey but it will probably cost double to get it to pump the way i want it-RDY-B

[Allen Dick]

We used the 3/4" and 1" versions of the pumps below for many things, and pumped an awful lot of honey through them. They are available through most good hardware stores. These links happen to be Canadian, but I should think that the US stores should have them. I see the prices have gone up a bit, but these are in Canadian dollars ($0.80 US)

http://tinyurl.com/d8hwbr http://tinyurl.com/d6cd9n

We drove them with 3/4 HP capacitor-start farm duty motors and set a small switch in the wiring boxes that are mounted on the motors or the wiring cover plate for reversal. We used FHP belts to drive them, sometimes with stepped pullies for speed changes. Ratios are not critical and can range widely 10 to 1 we used a lot, but they can run up to 1 to 1 from an 1800 RPM motor as I recall. Slower is better, though. Less whipping and wear and noise, and easier starting. They can build high pressure and blow hoses if the honey is cold or granulated.

These pumps are close-tolerance and self-priming, at least when new. Wire is hard on them. Nails and rocks and wood will stop them dead.

That having been said, these are a budget solution. We prefer the Jabsco pumps for the types of applications these were in, namely small lines to filters and drums.

[HVH]

Sounds great :thumbsup: :thumbsup:.. was going to do the same thing for clean up:cool: but I'm using a check valve to hold the honey in the air (stops form re-entering the sump) after it leaves the pump.

The check valve sounds like a good idea but my pump is too wimpy to handle cold honey. If honey is left in the hose the belt slips on the pulley and I have to resort to heating the pump with hot air and turning the pump by hand until all is well. If I ever get rich, I would like to purchase a progressive cavity pump with reversing switch.

[bermybee]

the problem was with the pump starting overcoming ential resistance the pump was first wierd for 110 -at the same time that i had the wiring changed to 220 and dedicated the circut-i changed lines up from one inch -to two inch lines -pump only one inch in and out-now it works ok but just ok honey needs to be very warm;) i also had a circut dedicated to the sump the extractor (60) runs on the same circut as the uncapper and cappings spiner my weak link is the one inch pump you say you could pump cold honey-these things we learn come with a price tag:p tried to be thriftey but it will probably cost double to get it to pump the way i want it-RDY-B

If it wasn’t kicking out the breaker on the panel box the 120v vs. 220v wasn’t the real issue, though it would help band aid the real prob. Sounds like the entail start problem could be a weak capacitor problem also as HVH said ( I don’t know how new the motor is) but that motor should be able to almost melt the belt right off the pulleys if the pump locks up.
Plus as you probably no those small pumps are not truly designed to pump such high viscosity liquids at all. Plus that pressurised canister filter is no pumps friend.

“The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory.”

[Allen Dick]

What gear ratios are you guys using? That could be a big factor.

[RDY-B]

Dont know the ratio-it is set up from supply house (mannlake) my canister strainer is the old model which is bigger and longer than the ones offered from the supply houses today-so replacement filters became a problem -I found this outfit that will make your filterer any size and any micron-so you are not stuck with the felt type or over filtering of the honey -i have great success with a 600 micron bag which is coarse and the honey is not filtered it is strained at 600 micron-if i want i use a 200 micron bag for fine filtering but they clog faster-talk to these guys about stainer bags you will be glad you did
http://www.pentairindustrial.com/products/product-details.asp?catID=4&prodID=22&pab=1_4
:) RDY-B

[Allen Dick]

The ratio may be something you can change if you are at all mechanical.

For filter bags, we made our own, buying filter cloth from the bee suppliers and sewing it into bags. We found they needed to be washed before use.

[bermybee]

I was thinking of the pulley ratio also, but if it was set up with Mann Lake I can’t see it being anything but BACKWARDS maybe??

“The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory.”

[RDY-B]

I was thinking of the pulley ratio also, but if it was set up with Mann Lake I can’t see it being anything but BACKWARDS maybe??

“The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory.”

my set up is identical; to yours same motor same frame same gaurd-same pulleys -just different pump mine is the inch and yes it has pressure relief -and yes you can still blow hoses with the pressure relieve if the honey is to hot-the price difference between the two pumps set up identical is $395 i am still suspect to the performance of the inch and one half-but the outlet on the sump is still only one inch-on the jacketed sump you can only pull so much through a one inch pipe so fast was the rational i used for the purchase -not to mention the $395 -most folks heat there honey to a temp that they wont speak of so as to pump through the fillter-that is not a option for me -but i did find it another help runing three inch from the extractor and reducing at the sump instead of reducing at the extractor and runing inch and one half-kelly has the three inch hose if you couldnt find any RDY-B

[Allen Dick]

Even when I used a 1" pump, I had 2" hose entering and leaving, using reducing pipe fittings and cam-loc fittings for easy removal.

[RDY-B]

yes overcoming resistance is key -the two pumps we speak of both come from mannlake and have 3/4 motor-I find the same inch and one half pump sold by Dadant -but it comes with a 1HP motor and variable speed pulleys-I think the mannlake set up is economical but weak -i also believe the set up DADant offers is more intune with the needs for a small pump-keeping temps down is what most folks want in a pump set up-and this is done with keeping down resistance-and plenty of drive power delivered at the right RPM and not wasted
:) RDY-B

[bermybee]

I have no problem with the set up as it stands (sump onwards). Though i have gotten rid of almost all the tubing (accept a short viewing piece) on the pump out let to get rid of the tube blowing/bending/kinking fun :pinch: as the filter gets clogged and to stop the cold start suspense. Watching the gauge climb was bad enough. The problem i had with heating the honey up to drop the pressures and speed up the filtering, was i found that the filter would clog up faster as the temperature of the sump increased.

I'm getting one of those DADANT pumps also (gotta love the gearing on an already great Roper 2835p plus a 1 HP motor) I'll use the pump I have now as a back up. Can't afford to lose a crop because of pump failure (The heart of my processing) .

How every I did wish the honey ran out of the extractor faster, honey tends to get close to the reel. Does anyone have any advise on heating the bottom of a 60 frame extractor?? :scratch: I was thinking of putting two/three heat lamps under it. Not the most efficient way but um sure it would work???

“The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory.”

[RDY-B]

i mentioned this earlier -to increase flow out of the extractor-I run three inch clear line-your extractor should be a three inch outlet -I run a steel three inch 90-three inch line about six feet to the sump-at the sump is where i reduce down to 1 1/2 for inlet to sump-honey flows beautifully and sump fills faster like every thing else the fitting cost arm and leg-three inch line i got from walter t kelly-i noticed from your pics that you are reducing at your extractor down to 1 1/2 and runing about six feet to your sump with 1 1/2 line thats where you are slowing the flow hope this helps :) RDY-B

[bermybee]

i mentioned this earlier -to increase flow out of the extractor-I run three inch clear line-your extractor should be a three inch outlet -I run a steel three inch 90-three inch line about six feet to the sump-at the sump is where i reduce down to 1 1/2 for inlet to sump-honey flows beautifully and sump fills faster like every thing else the fitting cost arm and leg-three inch line i got from walter t kelly-i noticed from your pics that you are reducing at your extractor down to 1 1/2 and runing about six feet to your sump with 1 1/2 line thats where you are slowing the flow hope this helps :) RDY-B

I wish it was that easy :( but the pump side is all 1 1/2 from the gate at the sump onward. After the SS elbow on the extractor the the gates and hose is 2.5 inch then is broken down at the sump again from the 2.5 to the 1.5. at the sumps inlet. Cant see the .5 of an inch making a big difference.

Question how long does it take you to spin a load and do you use auto or manual?

[RDY-B]

I run on manual and i run the line myself so there is many things to do it takes about 15 minutes for me to stay caught up with uncapping -and i also stack my suppers on dollies and roll them in and out of hot box-i stack them six high so every spin i get a fresh stack that is warm and if the holding tank gets full then i fill buckets or drum so i can keep going moving empty boxes ect-if cappings spinner is full then that needs to be looked after also so i dont have time to mickey around with my slow pump-the auto is nice but i like to drive it myself-RDY-B

[bermybee]

I run on manual and i run the line myself so there is many things to do it takes about 15 minutes for me to stay caught up with uncapping -and i also stack my suppers on dollies and roll them in and out of hot box-i stack them six high so every spin i get a fresh stack that is warm and if the holding tank gets full then i fill buckets or drum so i can keep going moving empty boxes ect-if cappings spinner is full then that needs to be looked after also so i dont have time to mickey around with my slow pump-the auto is nice but i like to drive it myself-RDY-B

Sound pretty much like my self but while I'm running around changing filters and loading/unloading the extractor (My dad won't touch the controller, just got my brother to use it :applause:) brother[when he manages to mosey on home from school], dad and a crew of his friends decapp then if i'm not doing anything i go back to decapping. Takes about 25 mins for the frames to dry out on auto (highest setting) any less time start to blow frames. I am away in collage so when i come home for thanksgiving break (week) this is when we take off the crop. Every thing from taking off the boxes, cleaning and setting up the equipment, extracting, putting the empties back on the hive and re-cleaning and packing a extracting equipment away within that week. So there is no room for anything to go wrong. :lookout: I usually start at about 5 am and finish at 1 am the next day by the time i am done extracting the last bit of frames they did that day and getting things ready for the next day.
I am looking in to getting an auto uncapper some time soon and was wandering what kind of uncapper you use or any one else for that matter what is the pros and cons of it.
Also we run an DADANT mini wax melter, i was wandering what spinner you have and your opinion on that.

[RDY-B]

I run a Maxant chain uncapped that sets over there 1200-30 spinner it saves a lot of space -it is not as fast as a cowan but my cappings are spun dry at the end of the day-and i can do every thing myself-i melt my cappings in a jacketed tank -are you happy with the mini melter-wonder if you could auger the cappings to it from a power uncapper would it keep up if you went slow -seams like everything you buy sets up the next set of circumstance - so i have come to about max capacity with this line and i think i will keep it :thumbsup:RDY-B

[bermybee]

How clean/complete do the frames come out of the uncapper i've read several postings saying that a lot of wax is left on the frame with the flail type uncappers.

[RDY-B]

Knives are cleaner for shure -but with jacketed clarifier (sump)-and in line canister strainer-honey still warm when it goes in holding tank by morning any minute bits of wax float to top and honey is drawn from bottom -i would suggest with chains that you would change the micron in the strainer bags to something around 200-600 micron -the bags over the counter are 50 microns and they will clog to fast -with knives there is a whole nother set of things to deal with -manly cappings and amount of room you have for the line-the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence -but it is just as hard to mow
you will have to make changes with ethier type-if i pulled more honey than 10.000- 15000 lb then i would go whole hog cowan syestem RDY-B

[bermybee]

you will have to make changes with ethier type-if i pulled more honey than 10.000- 15000 lb then i would go whole hog cowan syestem RDY-B

Cowen's systems are grate and all but there are a lot more moving parts and Cowen makes most of them there self. So if somethings brakes on one of there system and they don't have the part in stock or the model you are using is discontinued .:eek::scratch: and there is no way it's getting shipped back.
Gets back to the whole living in Bermuda thing the ultimate test of durability and longevity. Things become very expensive pieces of scrap metal very fast here just ask some BMW owners they'll tell you about it.
Plus, and i might be wrong but they are also very dependent on the ears on you frames being in good shape????
:popcorn:

[RDY-B]

one thing i never took in consideration was that with the maxant -was that the plastic pierco frames would flex in the machine -wood frames never flexed and problem solved -just had to buy several thousand wood frames-:D but i think the frames on ethier system are a deciding factor for best preformance
I only run white wax for honey suppers and now they are all wood bound money well spent-RDY-B