Signs of starvation/when to feed

[CPS]

I have a few hives in Santa Barbara, CA, near the beach. It never freezes here, but we have a dry Summer and Fall with variable honey flows in the winter and Spring. I have never fed my bees as I assumed the hive loss was from varroa mites. However, I am now wondering if the frequent swarms, lack of honey, and weak colonies, are primarily the result of nectar dearth in this dry environment. The only clear honey flow I have observed has been from eucalyptus trees that flower in December and January. The vegetation around my house is native coastal scrub. My question is, how can I tell if the bees are not getting enough nectar? What are the symptoms of nectar dearth so I can decide when to feed?
Thank you,
Cris

[RayMarler]

More info is needed...
How many hives do you have? and what size are they?
are you running queen excluders?
how long have you had these hives?
you never feed, but have you ever pulled off any honey?
do you work the hives and have you noticed nectar being stored or honey being sealed?
you've assumed varroa, but have you ever seen signs of varroa such as bees crawling on ground with deformed wings?

You're assumption of dearth conditions might be right, but only you can determine that. Run a queen excluder keeping the brood nest to 1 deep box or to 2 mediums, depending on what you use, and see if any honey ever gets stored above the queen excluder. If you don't use excluder, check for nectar and pollen stored on top and sides of broodnest. Check for sealed honey stored above the broodnest.

[bigbore]

One clear sign is when you look through a dead out, the bees that are there dead are head down in the comb looking for the last scrap of honey in the cell as they die.

[CPS]

THANK YOU FOR THE HELPING ME ID THIS PROBLEM.
How many hives do you have? and what size are they?
4 NOW , HAD UP TO 6. 2 ARE WELL DEVELOPED WITH 2 DEEPS. THE OTHER 2 WERE NEW SWARMS FROM THIS YEAR SO THEY ARE JUST GETTING ESTABLISHED. ONE OF THE NEW HIVES HAS DEAD AND CRAWLING BEES AROUND THE ENTRANCE
are you running queen excluders? YES. I PLACED THEM IN THE SPRING BUT THERE HAS BEEN NO ACTIVITY IN THE SUPERS.
how long have you had these hives?
THE LARGE ONES FOR 2 YEARS. I HAD OTHERS FOR THE LAST 6 YEARS BUT THEY DIED OR SWARMED IN APRIL AND MAY, SEVERAL TIMES, UNTIL THERE WERE NO BEES LEFT IN THE HIVE.
you never feed, but have you ever pulled off any honey?
2007 WAS THE ONLY YEAR I PULLED OUT HONEY AND ONLY FROM 1 OF THE HIVES. GOT 5 FRAMES OF HONEY.
do you work the hives and have you noticed nectar being stored or honey being sealed?
I SEE HONEY AROUND THE BROOD BUT NOT ON THE SUPERS. THEY ARE NOT EVEN DRAWING THE CELLS OUT ON THE SUPER.
you've assumed varroa, but have you ever seen signs of varroa such as bees crawling on ground with deformed wings?
I SAW VARROA ON A HIVE THAT IS NO LONGER ALIVE BY PULLING DRONE LARVAE OUT OF THE CELL.

You're assumption of dearth conditions might be right, but only you can determine that. Run a queen excluder keeping the brood nest to 1 deep box or to 2 mediums, depending on what you use, and see if any honey ever gets stored above the queen excluder. If you don't use excluder, check for nectar and pollen stored on top and sides of broodnest. Check for sealed honey stored above the broodnest.[/QUOTE]

[Ross]

Its a short and easy answer. If there isn't a flow and they don't have stored honey, FEED. Bees can starve in any month of the year without food.

[RayMarler]

From your reply, I'd say you don't have enough nectar flows in that area for the bees. Keep in mind that here in CA we've had a pretty dry drought conditions for the last 2 years. Here where I'm at, I get good spring flows, but for last 2 years had to feed the bees from june thru the end of october.

[tecumseh]

cps writes:
I have a few hives in Santa Barbara, CA, near the beach.

tecumseh:
this plus your latter comment that not much foundation was pulled (the bees will not pull foundation except in a nectar flow or when fed for a period of time) suggest to me that your location may be the problem. this could be due to high winds (my first concern) or lack of floral possiblities..... or quite possibly both.

[LtlWilli]

Desperate bees will resort to Depression Days tactics by wearing placards that say something like "Will work for honey/or I'll dob your butt!

[Tom G. Laury]

Hi CPS
You are living in a beautiful place! But not always good for bees. Your assessment of variable winter/spring flows is correct. Eucalyptus is probably main flow where you are, also avocados yield but the fog belt is too cool and damp for much nectar secretion. Try finding a location inland where it gets warm (or hot). In wet years the sages can yield phenomenal flows.

[cow pollinater]

I saw in your posts that you've had swarming problems, you are using queen excluders, and that the bees aren't drawing out foundation in the supers. While I don't think you'll have any real big flow in your area, that information makes it sound to me like maybe they don't want to cross the excluder.
I had that problem when I first started with bees and lost alot of swarms before I figured out to let them draw foundation in the supers before I put on the excluders.
Some bees will build up and swarm rather than start new work on the other side of an excluder. I let them get most of the foundation drawn before I add the excluder.

[jjgbee]

Quite a few commercial bees are wintered along the coast for build up. The winter bloom is brazilian pepper trees, ice plant, wild indian tabacoo eucalyptus and others. Have you ever had a large population in one hive,(60,000 bees). One strong hive is worth more than 4 weak hives. Santa Barbra is almost tropical and should yield a huge flow in the spring. The city is full of tropical house plants.

[DoubleB]

"Food for thought" (pun intended)....the bees use up their stores by working up inside the hive. By winters end they can be found just under the inner cover, where the last of their food is to be found. If inspection finds them deeper in hive, then there should still be stores above them. Me....I just cooked up fondant and have raw sugar....and ready to feed them weather permitting. Good luck all!!

[walking bird]

I would echo jjbee's note--- Santa Barbara is so heavily landscaped with blooming flora that spring shouldn't be a problem, and it's loaded with eucalyptus groves for the winter. So, if you're close enough to the city proper...

But having driven through that area umpteen times, you're a bit above Santa Barbara proper, and more into coastal sage area. You might be too far from Santa Barbara proper to take advantage of its diversity, forcing your hives to be dependent on the spring sage... and not a whole lot else that I'm aware of.

[Tom G. Laury]

jjg., wb, try putting bees in there as I have. You will find that things are not what you think. Experience is the best teacher. Winter is actually the best flow.;)

[walking bird]

I believe you Tom, especially if we're talking about the SB area itself. I guess my concern is that maybe he's too far up in Goleta to take advantage of it? But maybe not--- as you note, I haven't ever tried it up there, and I can't claim to be totally familiar with the area. It's always been a drive-through on my way up to one kid or another's college...