Sex-Allele and queen breeding

[wayacoyote]

What's the best book(s) for understanding genetics. I'm particularly interested in understanding the sex-allele issue. I want to "set" some traits, so I don't mind some inbreeding for that purpose, but I then have to nurse the hive to keep them from superseeding the poorer mated queen.

I have a hard time with tossing out a queen who has a poorer brood pattern just for that one purpose. Sure, she may not make a strong hive and show herself as a good producer, but what if she holds some secret gene pattern that, once added to my genetic pool, would give other hives just what they need.

So how do you handle a poorly mated queen which shows great hygienic traits and resistance to disease and parasites?

[BEES4U]

Here is a start:
http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/bkCD/HBBiology/breeding_genetics.htm
http://www.glenn-apiaries.com
Regards,
Ernie

[Barry]

3. Breeding Improved Honey Bees.

http://www.beesource.com/pov/usda/index.htm

[Michael Palmer]

So how do you handle a poorly mated queen which shows great hygienic traits and resistance to disease and parasites?

I wonder. If she was so poorly mated, how would you determine if she shows great hygienic traits, disease resistance, and mite tolerance?
I would replace her with a properly mated queen, and select from those that show the above.

[deknow]

So how do you handle a poorly mated queen which shows great hygienic traits and resistance to disease and parasites?

well, if in your judgment, you have a great queen with great genetics...but you think she is inbred (shotgun pattern, assuming it's diploid drones being removed), your best bet might be to use her for rearing drones (as the quality of the drones is determined by the proper mating of the queen's parents, not by proper mating of the queen). perhaps a hive that is booming despite a shotgun pattern would be a good candidate for this.

but, i'd agree with michael...it's much easier to be working with good queens.

deknow

[Brandy]

Anyone take a look at Barry's link?? There was a topic on Breeding Hybrid Queens. Interesting that they first use older 24-48 hour larva into their swarm box. After 24 hours remove the larva that have been fed and cell cups are now filled with royal jelly that they graft into again with the younger 12 hours larva from their Breeder Queen. For some reason this type of double grafting really hit me like a great idea. Better than just adding a drop of royal jelly to prime the cells. This takes priming the cell cup to a new level in my mind. Anyone using it, twice the work for nothing, or are you liking the results??

[BEES4U]

Double grafting was "the" thing back in the 70's

Regards,
Ernie

[adamf]

wayacoyote wrote:

"I have a hard time with tossing out a queen who has a poorer brood pattern just for that one purpose. Sure, she may not make a strong hive and show herself as a good producer, but what if she holds some secret gene pattern that, once added to my genetic pool, would give other hives just what they need. "
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Besides all the other traits one selects for in bee breeding, one must also
"select" for a good expression of the sex-alleles: a heterozygous one. If you
find you have a great queen but feel she's got a poor pattern due to loaded
up (homozygous) sex-alleles, you're somewhat stuck. Usually bee breeders
breed in groups rather than single lines, to increase the chance that the
sex allele combinations will remain somewhat heterozygous, while other
desirable traits/combinations might become expressed.

Simply, you can drill down with breeding bees to a certain point, but then
you have to pull back and regain vigor. This slows breeding progress.
Closed population breeding programs address this bee breeding dilemma,
but not without their own specific challenges.

Adam Finkelstein
www.vpqueenbees.com

[wayacoyote]

Michael Palmer,
I had the answer to that question after asking myself that a hundred times, but I forgot it. Then I remembered it...

A poorly mated queen will have a shotty UnCapped brood pattern, as the diploid male eggs are removed by workers and not given the chance to reach larval stage. And this is rarely mentioned in the forums (here and elsewhere I have my ear).

My concern is, if we're trying to select for bees that show hygienic behavior (any of the many hygienic behaviors), but we're illiminating any queen with a shotty Capped brood pattern right off the bat, we're not taking care to insure that the reason for the spotty patern Is Not the very trait we want. Or at least that is the way it seems to me.