Question about Converting From Mediums to Deeps

[Durandal]

I started out in all mediums but have been doing the math in terms of time taken too go through mediums and the cost of setting up mediums and I decided to go with a mix of deeps and mediums.

I am looking for the best method to do splits and introduce to deeps this spring.

Will simply putting a deep on top be enough or can I get them to work down and put the deep on the bottom?

I'd like to do some early splits in March and see how they do. I was going to split some of them into five frame medium nucs with undrawn deep nucs on top and LOTS of syrup.

Should this work? With plastic frames?

[AR Beekeeper]

I have found it easier to get comb drawn above the brood area than below it. It helps to add wax to plastic frames, the bees are attracted to the frames and draw comb out much faster. It may be best to have strong colonies draw your deep comb and then use drawn comb for your splits.

How many colonies do you have and intend to split? How many boxes will they have full of adult bees and how many frames with brood?

Would it be best to use a double screen and place the nuc in a full size box above a strong colony for warmth?

Where do you find a supply of queens in March? Do your nectar flows come late enough for a nuc to build and collect it's winter stores? All these are questions that would have a bearing on making early splits for increase instead of waiting and making splits after the main nectar flow (for better varroa control).

I think you will like using a mix of mediums and deeps for your hive configuration. Using the deep for the primary brood chamber and the mediums for food chamber means you will only have to lift 45 to 50 pounds in the mediums and not much more in the deep. I have found a deep full of brood is usually 50 to 60 pounds. If you don't use a work stand I recommend you start.

[brooksbeefarm]

It is natural for bees to move up in the spring they will always be in the top super(at least mine are).I had the same problem with making nuc!s,so I made some 5 frame med.and some 5 frame deep nuc!s so I can split either med.or deep hives.The biggest problem is you have to bring so much different equipment with you when you do splits.Most of my older club members have gone to all med.hives(the difference between 40lbs.and 80lb.supers).They like the less wieght, and when working bees they only have to have med.supers with them:thumbsup:If plastic frames is all they have to work on they probably will,but don!t mix plastic with wax,I have found they will go to the wax and not go back to the plastic?I would use either all plastic or all wax.In my experience nuc!s build up faster when I use wood frames and wax foundation.Hope this helps.Jack

[Musashi]

I've been facing the same decision and have decided to stick with my original idea of One deep brood box and one medium for their own honey/expansion area. I'll have queen excluder above that and add supers when appropriate.

As I'll be buying some medium super nucs from a supplier in Florida, I'll just put a deep on top of the medium that I'll be getting. In these cases, I've also considered that wax foundation in the deep over the medium would probably be more helpful to the process with that much drawn foundation to be worked on before the colony is really "normal".

[NashBeek]

IMO I think you made the right decision on configuration, it's a lot easier to find nuc's with the deep frames. I run two deeps for brood and it takes three mediums to make the equivalent so that means 8-10 more frames you have to buy and as to the weight of deeps, you're not going to be lifting them all that much when used as only brood boxes.

[Musashi]

Nash,

That's exactly what I figured out eventually as well. There is the intial inability to move deep frames up into medium supers to start them from being drawn out but that is only the first year problem. I also figured I would be lifting the heavies very often at all, so the weight issue is somewhat mute, unless I ever get to moving my hives around a lot. I don't see that being an attractive option in any event.

There is definately a cost issue too. Not that I think it's critical, but drone brood is also mainly available in deep size. Nucs for sure mean that it's a bit tougher to just plop them in there. I'm still going to get some nucs from the medium super nuc supplier but I was planning on running all mediums on those hives. Now I think I'll just stick a deep on top and have the same setup for everything.

I did also buy a few shallow set ups. Call me crazy, but I thought I might stick a few foundationless shallows on and see if I can harvest those frames for comb honey as the bees can fill out faster and therefore make nicer comb honey for me. It might make no sense to have a third size, but for for shallow supers plus frames it seemed worth a shot.

[NeilV]

Musashi,

Your idea for foundationless for comb honey is not crazy at all. Just watch them to make sure they draw straight comb. You might try putting in some with foundation to get them started straight.

Neil

[Musashi]

Yes, I'm debating what to use for starter strips. M Bush recommends wood strips but I think I'll go with some 100% wax foundation strips. I just hope they don't melt before the bees get to them in this Florida heat.

I then plan to switch to mediums on those particular hives to let them drawn out foundation to have to save as is now "normal" with most beeks.

My ultimate goal is to get a specific harvest of Black Mangrove honey as I'm pretty close to the stuff here in Clearwater Florida. It used to be a significant honey producing plant around 1900 but a big freeze put a stop to that. Now, it's back enough I think for me to have a go at it.

[tonyp]

Richard if you have 6-3 medium hives and split them to 18 single medium hives why not try to find 18 drawn deeps for sale buy them put them on after splitting the bees should build up faster then reverse and add your deep supers with plastic frames on top and the bees should have time to draw the plastic frames out and fill them with honey. That way you can triple up and get a pretty good honey crop too.

[sierrabees]

I like the wood strips better than either foundation starters or plain wax starters. I do find that in hot weather the wax strips tend to sag and I get a lot more brace comb and poorly constructed comb. With the wood strips I seldome have an irregular comb, and when I do it is beekeeper error because I put the strip next to an already mis-shapen comb or too far away from the adjacent comb. Either way you go you will find that the bees draw the comb out much faster than they do with full sheets of foundation or plastic foundation. Be sure and hold the frames vertical when handling them the first year because they will be quite fragile. They become much stronger by the second year.

[Musashi]

I like the wood strips better than either foundation starters or plain wax starters. They become much stronger by the second year.

Hey, do you happen to have some pics of what your frames look like with just wood starter strips? What kind of wood are you using? What thickness and width exactly? I'm just about to have to start making mine this week.Do you make them stay by beading melted wax in the top groove?

How are you arranging supers of these type frames? I won't have any drawn frames to put in the super to give the bees the "idea", so am just thinking I'll put ten frames of foundationless and hope they do what comes naturally.??

I'm not really worrying about them getting stronger as I plan to harvest the whole frames for comb/chunk honey and if it's messed up then I'll just crush and strain and have extra wax for candles or whatever ;-)

[Michael Bush]

The last time I spent a lot of time going through deeps looking for queens to do splits, it took me a while to figure out why my wrists were sore and my arms got so tired. Then I realized it's because the frames weigh so much more and I wasn't used to it anymore...

[Musashi]

The last time my wrists were sore and my arms got so tired I realized it's because I wasn't used to it anymore...

Sorry Michael, I couldn't resist chopping up your quote and making a funny.

;-)
M

[Durandal]

Thanks everyone for the advice so far!


Richard if you have 6-3 medium hives and split them to 18 single medium hives why not try to find 18 drawn deeps for sale buy them put them on after splitting the bees should build up faster then reverse and add your deep supers with plastic frames on top and the bees should have time to draw the plastic frames out and fill them with honey. That way you can triple up and get a pretty good honey crop too.

Hey Tony...

I already have purchased all my gear for deeps. I picked up 54 of them on the cheap back in September. I'd prefer to avoid using someone else's old comb. I have also ordered plastic frames and some plastic foundations inserts for the new wood frames that were thrown in with the purchase (thank you Brushy Mountain for free shipping!).

I have enough drawn medium comb to fill up a bunch of splits AND fill supers. Is just the deeps. I figure, this year is going to be a sacrifice year with little honey production. I'll do what I did this year and pull a frame here and there and get little honey on the side while I focus on expanding.

That is what I did this year too. Pulled a frame here and there. Managed to get about 110# of it.

[sylus p]

Mushashi et all.

Boris Romanov asked the ABJ to print info on his Romanov comb sections and they printed the link.

Home page: www.beebehavior.com

Just another option for thrifty beeks with table saws.