Introducing Nucs and Foundation

[Musashi]

Hey all!

I will be taking possession of Nucs only this Spring. I decided against package bees as I have local suppliers of Nucs. The problem is two fold. One place it is five frames of deep frames and the other place is ten frames of a medium super.

In the 5 frame arrangement, I've read two different introduction methods of foundation around these 5 drawn combs. One is to just place 2 foundation frames on one side and 3 on the other. This is supposed to keep the main force together and unified (less stressed). Another source says that the bees won't draw out the first ajoining foundation correctly if there is another foundation frame on the other side so recommends alternating frames of drawn comb with foundation. In a five frame deep nuc though, that would mean one drawn, one foundation, one drawn, one foundation, and so on. That sure would break up their little central location though.

Appreciate any feedback on this!
thanks

[NeilV]

In my experience, it would be a bad idea to alternate frames. Put the nuc intact in the middle, empty frames on the sides and they will draw the rest out. If you are using properly installed foundation, they shoulld build straight comb. Wait until they have built out 8 of the 10 frames before adding another box. If you can keep a close eye on them, you could even wait until they have built out 9 before adding a new box.

When you add the new box, if it is the same size as the first one (another deep or medium) then pull one drawn frame from the bottom box and put it in the top box. That will encourage the bees to move into the new box and get to work.

I have had some hives that will not build out the frame(s) on the outside edges. Some hives just seem to like to build a tall, skinny hive. For some reason, my Russian bees have been prone to do that when Italians don't seem to do it. Anyway, if that happens, it sometimes helps to rotate the end frames into the middle.

One consideration here is the weather. If it is early spring with cold nights, absolutely do not do anything to break up the middle of the brood nest. The bees need to be compact to keep the brood warm. If they cannot cover the brood, it will get cold and die. If you alternate frames with foundation in cool weather, you spread everything out and make the bees' job much harder. At the beginning the primary goal is to help the bees make more bees, and the rest will take care of itself.

Hope that helps,

Neil

[Musashi]

Thanks Neil. Cold will not be a problem. I really wanted to go with all mediums but i really wanted these nucs from two different sources so as crazy as it sounds I will be running some with one deep one medium brood boxes. The medium nucs from Mr Miksa will just be all mediums.

I've considered adding deeps on top of the medium nucs to stay consistent but i figure this is my chance to try both arrangements to see which works best for me.

[Ben Brewcat]

Agree with Neil. Don't split them up at this point; they should dray it OK as long as there's a good flow on or feed. On the deep/medium thing, you can always have them move up into mediums and take out the bottom-most (empty) deeps in the spring. I'm phasing out my deep equipment; it's all on one hive now that's become my dedicated "non-universal equipment" colony. Man those full deeps are HEAVY. Lift one deep full of honey and the mediums will just start to sing out to replacing them :).

[brooksbeefarm]

Sounds like good advice to me,but one thing that wasn!t mentioned was If the nuc!s you get are on wax foundation I would stick wax,in other words I wouldn!t mix plastic foundation with wax or vice versa.It can cause problems.Good luc Jack

[Walt McBride]

It has been my experience to expand a 5 frame nuic faster than 5 frames of bees with a additional 5 frames of foundation all in a 10 frame box.
By placing a nuic shell with 4 frames of foundation above with 1 drawn frame with adhearing bees from the new nuic. Fifth frame of foundation goes below.
Heat from below seems to help in drawing out the foundation above faster.
Walt

[Musashi]

Yes, I really want to go all mediums, but I also really wanted nucs not package bees. Consequently the nucs forced me to go deep just to have them.

As I only have 7 deep hive boxes I'm thinking now I will get some nucs in the deep format but just have three hives that are all deeps. That way I could take one drawn frame up to the next box to make that happen easier.I never planned on using all deeps as a hive setup but I guess I could just to make use of the equipmnt I bought and have the other 7 hives be all mediums.

[NeilV]

I think you'll be happier if you get some medium or shallow supers for your honey. First, it will be easier for the bees to totally fill out a smaller box with honey. If they fill an entire deep with honey, you won't want to lift it. The bees don't care what you do in this regard. However, there are reasons why most beekeepers use smaller boxes for supers.

If you've already bought deeps, I recommend that you use them for the brood area of your hives only. Also, you can find medium sized nucs (Fat/Beeman aka Dixie Bee Supply sells them and you could probably find a local beek to make some up for you too).

FWIW, I have one hive that is all mediums, and the rest of my hives are deeps with shallows, set up as recommended by Walt Wright. If you are just starting out, now would be a good time to start that process, but that is a whole different topic.

[fuzzybeekeeper]

Musashi,

Call the supplier with the deep nucs and see if he will start your nuc on mediums if you bring him the equipment early. I realize that you don't have any drawn comb and it will be a pain to work with YOUR equipment when it is different, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

If not, you can always just add a medium above the deep once they are established and slowly move them up and then discard the deep or return it to the supplier for a refund.

Just a few thoughts from someone who has never purchased a nuc.

Oh, well!

Fuzzybeekeeper

[Musashi]

Well, I had determined to not have more than 3 hives using deeps, using a two deep arrangement to utilize the boxes I have. I suppose if I'm going to go all mediums like I want than the more deeps I use the harder it is to migrate over. In the end, it would mean only not using four deeps. That's about 40 bucks in equipment lost which isn't that huge a deal. I guess that means I should buy some more mediums though, which is some more dough lol. If I hadn't already painted the deeps I'd care less. Well, I suppose I can use the extra deeps as places to put swarms and what not. of course then I've got a bunch of deep frames from a swarm with no where to put them. I do have four shallows too I got in a fit of ridiculousness. Maybe I could just use the deeps with shallows and have them be my "oddball" hives and just keep and maintain them that way.

That sounds like the most sensible solution at this point!

[riverrat]

when I hive nucs to 10 frame equipment I will keep the 3 brood nest frames together in the middle of the super. Then put in one frame of foundation on each side and then the a frame of honey next followed by foundation. Once they have the 2 nearest to the brood chamber drawn I will start rotating in the udrawn frames in next to the brood nest to speed things up. Once they hit the 80 percent drawn stage I will add the 2nd deep and move up a frame of brood and start doing the same thing as the first deep when they start drawing out the foundation

[justgojumpit]

Well, I had determined to not have more than 3 hives using deeps, using a two deep arrangement to utilize the boxes I have. I suppose if I'm going to go all mediums like I want than the more deeps I use the harder it is to migrate over. In the end, it would mean only not using four deeps. That's about 40 bucks in equipment lost which isn't that huge a deal. I guess that means I should buy some more mediums though, which is some more dough lol. If I hadn't already painted the deeps I'd care less. Well, I suppose I can use the extra deeps as places to put swarms and what not. of course then I've got a bunch of deep frames from a swarm with no where to put them. I do have four shallows too I got in a fit of ridiculousness. Maybe I could just use the deeps with shallows and have them be my "oddball" hives and just keep and maintain them that way.

That sounds like the most sensible solution at this point!

Or you could cut the deeps down to mediums and take pieces you cut off the deeps, nail them to the bottom of the shallows, and voila! you have all mediums!

justgojumpit