Ice and Snow in Entrance

[edenhillapiaries]

Hello All,

I live in Northern Michigan and we have been getting some early heavy snows this year. After getting over a foot of snow yesterday (more than two feet on ground) I checked my hives. Most were pretty much buried in the snow. When I dug out a hole in front of the entrances I found that almost all had snow and ice built up and blocking the bottom entrance. They all have entrance reducers in the bottom and almost all except a few have top entrances (holes drilled in top body). When I cleaned out the ice I also found a number of dead bees blocking the entrance. We started getting snows around three weeks ago, but I think that these were blocked in the last week or so. I have not checked on these hives for over a month (already fed, medicated, treated for mites, etc.).

My question is how long can a hive go without the bees being able to leave for cleansing flights,etc? I don't think these entrances have been blocked for more than two weeks. The funny thing was that some of the dead bees were drones. Wouldn't they have been kicked out sooner? This is my first year overwintering bees, so I want to do my best.

Thanks in advance

[Ravenseye]

They can go a long time without cleansing flights. It's really the cold that'll kep them in the hive for long periods, more than a blocked entrance. Think of it this way. If you get cold temps in your neck of the woods WITHOUT snow for two months, there still won't be cleansing flights no matter how open the entrances may be.

I clean out in front of the mouse guard whenever I get to the hive, especially if the blockage is mostly ice. I think that the sun on the hive dries it a bit and cleaning the snow / ice off helps keep the hive in good shape while reducing the amount of moisture that the hive will take in. I don't worry too much about cleansing flights.

As far as the drones go, there seems to always be a handful of stragglers that get zonked late in the year.

Sounds to me like you're doing fine!

[Michael Palmer]

When I dug out a hole in front of the entrances I found that almost all had snow and ice built up and blocking the bottom entrance. They all have entrance reducers in the bottom and almost all except a few have top entrances (holes drilled in top body).

My question is how long can a hive go without the bees being able to leave for cleansing flights,etc?

My bees sometimes have to wait 4-5 months for a cleansing flight. Two things I would change in your setup...

First I would make sure EVERY hive had an upper entrance. If the bottom entrance is iced over, and there arrives an opportunity for a mid-winter cleansing flight, you want the bees to take it. Not possible if entrance is closed.

Second, I would get rid of the entrance reducers. Use them to control robbing in the warm months. Don't reduce the entrance for winter. They get blocked with dead bees, and reduce the airflow through the hive. In spring there will be a mass of dead, soaking wet bees on the bottom. Instead, use a wedge of 1/2" hardware cloth. This can be made by cutting the hardware cloth in strips 4" wide, by the length of the bottom entrance. Fold into a wedge, and insert into the bottom entrance. The hive will have better airflow, the bees will be able to drag out the dead bees, and mice won't be able to enter the huve.

One more thing...did you insulate the inner cover?

[edenhillapiaries]

Thanks for the replies guys! I will try taking the entrance reducers out (unfortunately some I can't because they are screwed on) and adding top entrances to the rest. Is it possible to drill new holes this time of year without disturbing the bees too much? I don't know what else to do. Michael, I did not insulate the covers because they are all of the migratory type. This is my first year beekeeping and I could not afford the telescoping type. I was able to capture and keep 14 swarms this year (my job keeps me in orchards during the swarming season) that I had not planned for. I used plywood, etc. to make covers for these.

In my situation do you have any other ideas for me? I am glad to learn that bees can go for quite some time without having to leave the hives in winter. I will remove the reducers that I can today.

Thanks again,
Jason

[Michael Palmer]

I will try taking the entrance reducers out (unfortunately some I can't because they are screwed on) and adding top entrances to the rest.

Is it possible to drill new holes this time of year without disturbing the bees too much? I don't know what else to do.

Michael, I did not insulate the covers because they are all of the migratory type.

In my situation do you have any other ideas for me?

Screws come out as easily as they went in.

You can certainly drill entrance holes in hive bodies without disturbing the bees.

I would sure like to see some sort of insulation on those migratory tops. Perhaps a piece of foam insulation on the cover with a heavy stone to hold it down would work.

[edenhillapiaries]

Michael,

Thanks for the advice. I will drill some holes in the upper supers that do not have any. As far as the insulation, are you saying that I could place that foam insulation on top of the covers? This I could do. I'm sure I could find some way to keep it from blowing away. Does snow act as a decent insulator? There is quite a bit of snow on the tops of these hives. Does this help or hurt?

As far as the entrance reducers go, to take the ones that are screwed down out this would mean taking the whole hive apart. With as cold (20-30 degrees as it is and looks to be for some time) as it is wouldn't it be a bad idea to do this now?

Thanks Again,
Jason

[Hobie]

Screws come out as easily as they went in.

I wish. That completely depends on materials, exposure conditions, and length of time in place.

[Michael Palmer]

I wish. That completely depends on materials, exposure conditions, and length of time in place.

Truly.

[Michael Palmer]

are you saying that I could place that foam insulation on top of the covers?

Does snow act as a decent insulator? There is quite a bit of snow on the tops of these hives. Does this help or hurt?

With as cold (20-30 degrees as it is and looks to be for some time) as it is wouldn't it be a bad idea to do this now?

Thanks Again,
Jason

With migratory tops, I was just trying to see how you could insulate them. Why not just foam on the top, and a heavy stone to hold it down. Foam doesn't get wet, so would probably still insulate well. I wrap, so you could also do that, and fabricate some kind of tarpaper cap.

Snow is a great insulator, if it stays and its deep enough. I wouldn't expect it to remain long on your covers. The heat from the cluster and the sun will melt it.

I guess I wouldn't change the reducers now. Getting the upper entrances and top insulation are the most important things to do.

[JordanM]

I had the same problem today when i went out and checked on my hive. There was snow over the entrance, so i brushed off to give the hive better aurflow. Is this the right thing to do or should i leave it to insulate the hive?

[Hobie]

I brush the entrance(s) open, but leave the snow everywhere else. If all entrances are blocked, and it is dense snow or ice, they could suffocate in there.

Did that yesterday, and found a few tossed out bees on the veranda. So keeping entrances clear also gives them a place to toss out the dead or take a cleansing flight when conditions permit.

[Eaglerock]

I myself, never worry about the entrances. I have my reducers on, and the more snow around the hives the warmer they are inside. I don't like holes at the top, because it will let the heat out. Heat rises, so for that reason, I let them use the bottom entrance.I have one on summer and the rest in the winter, on the reducers. If I see them plugged I take a nail or my pocket knife and clean it out. Bees are not stupid, if they need more air, they will get it. Bees have been on their own long before man starting beekeeping.

[Hobie]

Bees have been on their own long before man starting beekeeping.

However, most feral hives I've seen around here are not so close to the ground as to be affected by snow.

[Eaglerock]

However, most feral hives I've seen around here are not so close to the ground as to be affected by snow.

However they lived in trees and went onto other places that had small holes, I am sure, that would have been covered by snow.

Nevertheless, I have never had to worry about snow, and I am sure things have not changed over the last few decades from went I first started beekeeping in the 60's. ;)

You PA people scare me... oh wait... I am a PA person... nevermind.

[brooksbeefarm]

Eaglerock,You must be lucky or your hives are like most of us older beekeepers(alot of cracks and gaps) around the top supers and lids for some ventilation, to prevent condensation.I started beekeeping in 1965 and have seen alot of bees die (mine and fellow beekeeper}from condensation.Bees can take frigid weather but not with water dripping on them.But if your getting by you must be doing something right?Maybe it!s so cold in your area the condensation freezes before it can drip.:D

[Eaglerock]

Eaglerock,You must be lucky or your hives are like most of us older beekeepers(alot of cracks and gaps) around the top supers and lids for some ventilation, to prevent condensation.I started beekeeping in 1965 and have seen alot of bees die (mine and fellow beekeeper}from condensation.Bees can take frigid weather but not with water dripping on them.But if your getting by you must be doing something right?Maybe it!s so cold in your area the condensation freezes before it can drip.:D

Hey, did you just call me a drip??? LOL Well some maybe were old... but you know them bees... they will fill them there cracks.

Well I just use inner covers and lids... there is enough at the top to give them what they need. Right now it is so cold they have their little mittens on.

Do you think they asked for Vents in trees before we gave them hives??? :no:LOL Like I said... they are smarter than we are.

[brooksbeefarm]

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Do you think they asked for Vents in trees before we gave them hives??? :no:LOL Like I said... they are smarter than we are.[/QUOTE]
Eaglerock,Yep your right,But! trees need water and their like politicians in this case, they keep the good stuff for their self!s.:(

[Eaglerock]

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Eaglerock,Yep your right,But! trees need water and their like politicians in this case, they keep the good stuff for their self!s.:(

Oh how clever you are today. Yes, those Politicians keep things for them selves. ;):D

[mxr618]

I've got the same thing. It's zero degrees here today with -25 windchill. I just checked the bees and the entrance is iced up. I covered the top vents loosely with cardboard to keep the wind out.

A week ago I found a 1/2 inch gap in the top of the hive (which I plugged). I was concerned about the amount of moisture in the hive.

I've got a top bar hive with a window. I dropped the outer window cover for a quick look and here's what I have:

Frost on the inside of the glass where the hive has diminished. Where the cluster is, there is moisture dripping from the glass and many bees stuck to the glass by the moisture. Everybody's moving slow.

The dead bees by the reduced entrance are all drones. The hive is pitched forward to let the rain run off so I'm not worried about moisture pooling.

First year bee guy, first overwinter. Not trying to be worried about my bugs, want to do right by them.

Anybody have any ideas?

[Boris]

Jason,

I hope my new photos (dated December 19 ,20) from this link http://www.beebehavior.com/natural_beekeeping.php

and the last photo from this link:
http://www.beebehavior.com/THSC_Unit.php

will be useful to you.

Good luck.
Boris