How's a steam melter work?

[Ben Brewcat]

Can anyone tell me how they're made, or show some pics of the inside? I have of old barrels and kegs and such and I'd love to try making one but have no idea what they do (apart obviously from using steam heat to melt wax). Is it a double-tank kind of affair? Perhaps a screen basket, allowing the liquefied wax to run from the debris through into the water below where it's drawn off from on top of the water somehow?

I've tried just boiling piles of old comb in a huge kettle with some water, but sieving out the cocoons and junk was a HASSLE. There gots to be an easier way to deal with large volumes of comb...

[Michael Bush]

Try a cloth bag for the combs and put a rock on it to hold it on the bottom of a pot of water.

[Bud Dingler]

I have a Dadant mini boiler connected to a large set of tanks (5 ft W * 5ft deep by 4 ft height)

I covered the tops of the tank with rubber molding and used a large piece of glass from a solar melter.

it works great for cleaning out cut comb frames and other extracting frames, the downside is the wax is ruined. we mainly use it for our 20,000 cut comb frames.

[tecumseh]

there are several methods of approaching this problem.

for smaller quantities of old comb.... mr bush suggest one (although typically another step or so is included in the process). when using this method I employ a burlap sack and a large wash tub. I place a slatted wood rack in the bottom (under the sack) and a slatted rack on top and with the assistance of blocks and 2X press the wax out from the bag when the water gets extremely hot. a bit larger version of this might employ a steam source being directed (jetted) into the bag itself.

another approach for smaller quantities would employ a can (with an added spout) with some water in the bottom which when heated you toss in bits of wax. continue to add wax and then gently pour in hot water which allow the melted wax to be collected at the spout. I have never used this method but richard taylor suggested this was a nice intermediate means of rendering wax.

for larger quantities I use a small livestock waterer. I employ no press on this but simply toss the wax into the water after it come to a good boil. I cook this up to look like a nasty soup (stir a bit) and then toss in some wired grates (I use old wire shelves out of old friges) to settle whatever wire and wood to the bottom of the vat. let cool and the wax solidifies on the top in a block. with this approach I typically remelt the wax in a slow cooker and filter it thru some old screen to make it acceptably clean.

common metal (not galvanized) and aluminum should be avoided in rendering wax since these will noticable darken the wax.

[Ben Brewcat]

Tecumseh do you make any provision for cocoons when using that livestock waterer? I suppose if I could find a suitable container with non-sloping sides, I could make a weighted frame for some 1/4" hardware cloth and drop that in to submerge the debris under the wax then let it cool.

Bud how is the wax ruined by the boiler? Those tanks, are they for collecting wax runoff or steam generation?

Here's the thing: I get lots of comb and wax from doing the occasional cutout. Typically I'll only keep a couple fins of brood if the colony looks really healthy. Either way afterwords I have a whole bunch of 5-gallon buckets full of comb I need to do something with. Often some of it has sawdust in/on it, dirt, honey running on it, some crushed bees, you get the picture.

I'm trying to figure out a system for dumping large quantities of this comb into (whatever) to be initially rendered without a lot of sorting etc. I'd really like to find an old fruit crusher to run the honeycomb through for crush-and-strain so I can feed that cutout's honey back to them on new foundation. But for now just having a good way to render mixed comb would be huge.

[Paraplegic Racehorse]

You can get a fruit-press at your local home-brew supply shop. Swienty is making horizontal-augur type honey/wax presses - powered, but they don't list prices or availability on yet on their site.

Until I can get a proper press set up, I'm getting myself a Wagner power steamer (http://www.wagnerspraytech.com/portal/on-demand_steamer_spray,104796,747.html). I'm just going to set the comb over a cut-down queen excluder inside a super, close it up with a lid that has a hole in the top just large enough for the steamer spout and turn it on.

I borrowed the idea from this YouTube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B31PT5fBPM).

Edit: It seems the Easi-steam demonstrated in the video is available from Thorne's UK (https://secure.thorne.co.uk/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/millhouse/thorne/shop/shania?ACTION=THISPAGE&THISPAGE=page21.html&ORDER_ID=224650116).

[Tom G. Laury]

Ben if you make a tank to boil water in, get it cooking then add comb. A 55gal drum works fine. 3/4 full of water, add comb as you go. It will melt , ladle in to a drum. This will protect it from moth save it up then find some beekeeper that does wax rendering. You will get a % and probably more wax with less effort. If you want to learn to render old comb it's a bit of a process.

[Ben Brewcat]

Until I can get a proper press set up, I'm getting myself a Wagner power steamer ... (snip)

I was thinking a crusher rather than a press, but that's just for honey. That steamer setup is interesting... must have a solid bottom tray with the spout for draining wax? I wonder if a metal funnel, screened over the top, could work to direct the wax...

[tecumseh]

mr brewcat writes:
do you make any provision for cocoons when using that livestock waterer?

tecumseh:
most of these will settle to the bottom (it is why you need to bring the vat to a good boil and stir it up a bit) with the remaining portion being strained out at the very end of the second handling of the wax (via a screen).

actully the 'apple' press method is one which use to be quite common (this method is so old it really did slip my mind). the wax was placed in a burlap sack (which were then stacked... layered) in the press. steam was added to the bottom of the stack and slowly pressed. a definite plus of this method was what remained at the end of the process (ie slum gum and burlap bags) when cut into small strips was about the best smoker fuel you will ever use (and was also kind of like using the squeel of the pig).

[Durandal]

I picked up some deeps from a retiring beekeeper down in Louisville, KY. He had a solar wax melter in the ground (thus insulated) with a polycarbonate lid. The interior was dark and had a 4x8' melting area, sloped, with a catch gutter that fed into two bins.

THere is no way of separating white wax from dark wax, but its a simple method to achieve what you are wanting...at no cost once the thing is built.

You can then choose what to do with the blocks of wax...sell 'em, render them again into cleaner blocks, what ever.

I've got pictures laying around and will post them when I get a chance.

[Rob]

Here's a link to a thread on the steam melter I made, http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214169

It's been in use for over a year now and I'm pleased to report it still works perfectly.:thumbsup:

[Ben Brewcat]

That's pretty serious Rob! Why pressurize the steam, does it speed it up appreciably?

[tecumseh]

thanks rob for the picture. strange how a picture can generate ideas.... once again thanks.

it appears??? that the connections have been epoxied in place and not welded???? I guess I was wondering if there was some purpose in this type of construction?

ps... you wax melter looks like a supersize version of one used by Richard Taylor. Mr Taylor use a 60# can and water in the bottom of the melter instead of steam.

[Ben Brewcat]

I've read in a number of sources that although wax and water separate in heated solution, if there is too small an amount of water the water can become incorporated in the wax (so keep a substantial amount of water in a rendering pot). Though I haven't had any problems, I wonder why steam melters such as this (which presumably have some amount of condensate sitting in the wax chamber with the melted wax) don't have this problem?

[Ben Brewcat]

And what happens to any honey in the comb?

[Ben Brewcat]

Thought I'd bump this up: for rendering large amounts of comb in a boiler or a steamer, does honey ruin/affect the wax? Or do you just scrape it off the bottom afterwards?

[tecumseh]

always an excellent topic in the winter time...

bump...

[dcross]

Thought I'd bump this up: for rendering large amounts of comb in a boiler or a steamer, does honey ruin/affect the wax? Or do you just scrape it off the bottom afterwards?


I would think it would dissolve harmlessly in the water.

[J-Bees]

If you wish to just melt the wax into a pan, then render the left over honey place that pan into the freeeezzzzzzzzer crack the wax off the top next day or when ever and put the honey where ever you wish to.

[Rob]

"Why pressurize the steam, does it speed it up appreciably?"

It speeds up the melting process considerably, like a steam engine, the higher the pressure the quicker it gets.

"it appears??? that the connections have been epoxied in place and not welded????"

No epoxy on the rocket tecumesh, all joints and connections have been welded.

If I were to make another wax melter I'd add more inlet pipes for the steam, one in the middle and another at the bottom of the wax chamber, I think this would make it even more efficient.