Bulk honey prices and market outlook [Archive]

irwin harlton

12-02-2008, 07:49 AM

Disclosure United States was the main destination for Brazilian exports of honey in October
The Brazilian exports of honey for the month of October remained an uptrend has been in September. The growth was 16% in value and 22% by weight, equivalent to an income of $ 5776533.00 and 2.33 tons of honey. This is the second highest monthly value already exported by the sector, exceeded only by income received in April 2004.

The balance of exports from January to October this year is also quite favorable. During this period, the accumulated revenue was $ 35.48 million, growth of nearly 100% in comparison with 2007. The quantities traded reached 14.99 tons, high of 35.8%.

The data are consolidated by the consultant for removal of the Unit of the Sebrae Agribusiness and national coordinator of Sustainable Integrated Beekeeping Network (Network Apis), Reginaldo Resende. The reference is the System Information Analysis of Foreign Trade via Internet (Alice-Web) of the Secretariat of Foreign Trade (Secex) of the Ministry of Development, Industry and Foreign Trade.

In October, the average amount paid by the honey exported was $ 2.47 per kilo, a reduction of 5% compared to September. However, prices received by the states of Santa Catarina and Parana broke the historic barrier of $ 3 per kilo. Santa Catarina registered reaching new record price of U.S. $ 3.35 / kg, and Parana returned U.S. $ 3.02 / kg

Exporters

Sao paulo took the lead in exports in October, with $ 2.4 million, accounting for more than 42% of the total value exported. Rio Grande do Sul appears in the second in the ranking, with $ 1.3 million, followed by Brazil (U.S. $ 696.8 mil), Rio Grande do Norte (U.S. $ 577.7 mil), Nevada (U.S. $ 464.3 mil), Paraná (U.S. $ 117 thousand) and Minas Gerais (U.S. $ 97.9 mil).

The United States was the main destination for Brazilian exports of honey in October. The country accounted for 69% of the total market, with revenues of $ 3.97 million at a price of 2.40 / kg Germany has already bought 24% of honey exported last month, with prices of $ 2.76 / kg

"The export to Europe, which has always paid more for Brazilian honey, it was possible due to be in October, eight warehouses and related authorized by the Ministry of Agriculture to export honey to the European Union", highlights Reginaldo. This result was driven by the Food Insurance Program (SAP) applied to beekeeping, developed by Sebrae and partners. Of the eight warehouses related, three are in Brazil, two in Sao Paulo, two in Michigan and one in Parana.

Service:
Sebrae News Agency of - (61) 3348-7138 / 2107-9362 / www.agenciasebrae.com.br
The texts and pictures carried by the News Agency of Sebrae may be reproduced freely through the service of the agency and credit the photographer. For more information, the journalists should call (61) 3348.7494, at a time of 10h to 19h.

irwin harlton

12-07-2008, 12:53 PM

and where OR which way will it will it go?
By Nigel Stevenson and Brett Foley

Dec. 5 (Bloomberg) -- The fundamentals of commodities are “unimpaired” and prices will rebound when a lack of new supply leads to shortages, said Jim Rogers, chairman of Rogers Holdings.

“Commodities will be the place to be if and when we come out of” the downturn, Rogers said yesterday in an interview from Miami. “The only thing where fundamentals are unimpaired are commodities. Farmers cannot get loans for fertilizer now. Nobody can get a loan to open a zinc mine. So we are going to have some serious, serious supply problems before too much longer.”

The Reuters/Jefferies CRB Index of 19 commodities has plunged 53 percent from a record in July on concern that a global recession will sap demand for raw materials.

Rogers said crude oil and agricultural commodities were the most likely to have shortages and the outlook for zinc and cotton had “improved.”

Central banks and President-elect Barack Obama should be careful in responding to the global economic slump, Rogers said.

“It is astonishing how bad they’re reacting this time. It is unfathomable to me what they’re doing and you think some of them would have read some history,” he said.

irwin harlton

12-21-2008, 07:40 PM

http://skamberg.com/........click market update ,click honey

jean-marc

12-22-2008, 09:07 AM

Irwin:

I'm not sure why but I can't access that page. I tried last night as well.

Jean-Marc

irwin harlton

12-22-2008, 05:14 PM

http://skamberg.com/

irwin harlton

12-23-2008, 06:15 PM

The stable prices in March have given way to much more expensive honey in October. Price increases ranged from 6.5%, on Miller’s clover, to 38.9% on Dutch Gold wildflower.

Click here to read the entire article:

http://www.washingtonwinemaker.com/blog/2008/10/06/honey-prices-a-bull-market-in-this-liquid-asset/

Ian

12-24-2008, 11:15 AM

>>............................................is the bull market in honey over? Me thinks not

:)

irwin harlton

01-13-2009, 05:46 PM

.............on the store shelf. see http://www.washingtonwinemaker.com/blog/

Worst drought in Argentina in 70 years, see http://apitrack.com/index_en_open.htm, see
article

ARGENTINA- AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTION, ASPHYXIATION BY THE DROUGHT

just wondering if that packer in Kansas who is offering 1.25 or less is getting the drift......
..... heard he wasn't getting any honey at that price

irwin harlton

01-13-2009, 08:31 PM

http://apitrack.com/noticias/aaacotizacionmiel_es_open.htm...... note last years prices in sept and oct

The Honey Householder

01-14-2009, 12:43 PM

I don't think the packers are getting it yet. I was offered $1.25 two weeks ago. Just check back in today and Michagan packer offered $1.20. They said they can get all the honey they need from Canada for $1.20 delivered. Well is this true, that the Canadain still has a lot of honey and is selling it this cheap??? I only have 30 ton lift but looking to move it sometime this year!!!
Anyone with answers,:lookout:

The Honey Householder

Ian

01-14-2009, 03:06 PM

Your 1.2$ US is our 1.5$ Canadian, which is good for us
My banker has said his clients are moving thier honey for 1.5$/lbs,
Thats a good price for us,

irwin harlton

01-14-2009, 05:42 PM

I have seen no reports ( official USDA) (please see dec. American Bee JOURNAL page 22)
Also see http://www.honey.com/honeyindustry/statistics.asp ....click on National Honey Report for dec 2008 report

of Canadian honey being sold for $1.20 delivered.

We maybe dumb Canadians but we ain't stupid

Irwin

Packers never lie but the odd one has been known to misunderestimate the truth

'They misunderestimated me.' George W Bush

irwin harlton

01-16-2009, 08:19 PM

http://newsdaily.com/stories/tre50f5ap-us-argentina-farmers/

http://www.bloombergnews.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=amK.9KIAu890&refer=news

Ian

01-17-2009, 05:17 PM

This has keep support on the grain market, we are seeing rallies due to the uncertain crop in south america
Brazil has a crop though, so they mention. Kind of opposite what your news page suggested.
Perhaps the dryness in Brazil is issolated

The Honey Householder

01-17-2009, 08:42 PM

So has any one been selling honey since the first of the year, and at what prices. I've gotten one quote back from Michigan packer for $1.20 and still waiting for KS and Pa packers.
Looking for input,
Ron

Trevor Mansell

01-18-2009, 05:43 AM

I got $1.25 for some fall honey, it wasnt white ,but it was better than the $1.10 Dutch Gold was offering.

soupcan

01-18-2009, 06:52 AM

$1.50 on small lots.
We had to go down to a $1.30 on the last 25 drums or so from $1.40.
Drums exchanged & a split on the freight.
Real nice looking & tasting alfalfa honey.
Hated to go down on the price as we have a new honey house to pay for but the packer we sell to needed help on the & he is a great guy to do business with.
Just not many of his kind left any more.

jean-marc

01-18-2009, 10:21 AM

What I'd like to know is if honey is moving? There are times when very little honey moves. Typically it's dec/january, before the Argentinian crop comes on market. Packers are hoping prices will be lower or use that threat to keep prices suppressed. So is anybody having difficulties moving honey? This is assuming that the price is not ridiculously low. With a supposed lower Argentinian crop forecast I would think demand is stronger than usual.

Jean-Marc

irwin harlton

01-18-2009, 11:11 AM

Just my opinion, and according to the Mid U.S. Honey Hot line, what little honey is being sold is moving to small packers at good prices.
This would be " normal" for this time of year, if you can call anything normal anymore.
The big question on suppliers and buyers mind is how much the recession is going to crush the sales or demand?????
Packers would like you(producer) to believe the worst case scenario.and they don't like to carry high priced inventory when there's chance of cheaper stuff down the road
There is a world shortage of honey......growth of the US industrial market for honey has been phenonimal......just look at total imports for last couple of years
The big problem is the cheap trans shipped , laundered chinese honey.......keeping the price of all honey down.....a few dedicated fellows in the American Honey Proudcers ( God Bless them ) have been pursueing these loopholes and lawbreakers for 10 long years. Their efforts are finally bearing fruit.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/395172_honey08.html

Irwin
still looking for a home for my honey

My favorite personal Greenspan quote is the beauty right below.

"[Hedge Funds] …are essentially free of government regulation,
and I hope they will remain so.
Why do we wish to inhibit the pollinating bees of Wall Street?” seekingalpha.com/article, 12-16-2008

Ian

01-18-2009, 11:12 AM

ya, it was about two years ago, about this time of year packers started throwing low ball prices, as low as .65$/lbs. Before it was trading from .75$ to .85$ .. It did sucker some producers into selling, for they bought the rumour "someone" sent around that South America had a bumper crop.
Well South America had one of its worst crops in the last 10 years, which infact seems to be the trend right up til now.
It bought us at least .5$ to a 1$ on our honey pricing. Alot of folks bought into that false story, and paid for it.

Groups like this, where we can interact between beekeepers and share worldly information provides us with such better insite than following the local crouds mood.
:)

irwin harlton

01-24-2009, 09:56 PM

ARGENTINA- HONEY PRICES INCRAESES IN THE INTERNAL MARKET

http://www.apitrack.com/index_en_open.htm

jean-marc

01-24-2009, 10:36 PM

It's interesting to see that according to those numbers beekeepers are getting better money for their honey today than 2003. I guess that was the year of the chloramphenicol tainted chinese honey. Kinda make you wonder. In Canada prices paid to the producer were way higher, mind you our dollar was weaker at the time. What this tells me is that the argentinian honey brokers make North American honey packers look like angels and that there must be a very small crop out there. Irwin I must say I like those little gems.

Jean-Marc

RAlex

01-25-2009, 08:16 AM

Irwin Thank you for the link to apitrack. Its interesting reading . Unless I am mistaken the Argentines (producers) are recieving about .79 (USD) per pound at their location per pound. Its my understanding the much of their crop is destined to the US ? Although it looks like Brazil has shipped more to the US this year the net result would be a shorter supply hence higher prices here to the producers here and in Canada ? I know other factors are involved as well.
I would like to Thank You, Ian and Jean-Marc for the straightforward disscussions I have read on Beesource... Rick Alexander

The Honey Householder

01-26-2009, 02:35 PM

I held out as long as I can. Finally got 3 offer from different big packers. I just sold a whole load of white honey for $1.29 lb. I only wish I had another month to work the packer against each other. Sorry to say someone had to win. With the cost of bees up again this year, I can't hold this honey forever. Don't sell for any less guys. The packer I finally sold to, first offered me $1.20. LOL That was a good one. When I counted back with $1.29 and told them they only had a day before I sold to another. They called back within two hours and took it. The week before they told me they can get all the Canada honey they want for $1.20 deleivered.
PACKER DON"T LIE:doh:
Ron

Ian

01-26-2009, 06:06 PM

ya, you got to have a target price for your production, otherwise you will watch the market rise and then go back down. Selling on the way up is the way to go.
When pricing your honey, and trying to make a decission on to sell or not, it helps to calculate the interest incurring on your line of credit. If you hold on for another three months, you simply subtract that cost off your $$/lbs :)

John Smith

01-27-2009, 05:34 AM

jim lyon

01-27-2009, 07:12 AM

John makes some good points. While no one knows what the price of honey will be at any time in the future at least we know have produced a tangible (and edible) product that fulfills a basic human need. Unlike some other businesses that refer to themselves as "industries" at least at the end of the year I know I have either directly produced or indirectly helped in the production (as in pollination) something of real value. Now back to my day job as hedge fund broker.........just kidding folks.

irwin harlton

01-27-2009, 09:46 AM

test all the loads they are going to buy, for the antibiotic that is the signature of bad chinese honey.When found they do not buy, merely return it to the seller, who readily pursues another buyer.The FDA is not notified, or for that matter do they care???????
USA- CONCEALMENT OF TAINTED IMPORTED HONEY WIDESPREAD, U.S. HONEY PRODUCER SAY

see http://apitrack.com/index_en_open.htm

Hmmmmmm , is there something wrong with this picture, the inmates are running the jail I think.
The result is the contaminated honey eventually gets sold, probably at a even lower price than the initial offer and ends up blended AND OR on the shelf.
The good reputable packers are doing nothing to rid themselves of the industry scum..... they must love cheap competition , or maybe there hoping the scum will get caught ,and what ? pay a fine?

Irwin

Experience is one thing you can't get for nothing.
Oscar Wilde

Ian

01-27-2009, 11:31 AM

>>Honey in the tank is money in the bank!

right on, but, remember,
the banker who is lending you the money to make that honey in the tank, isnt happy until that honey is cashed into the bank :)

The Honey Householder

01-27-2009, 12:46 PM

Correct, Ian, one can catch himself going backwards at times.

But with interest rates all over the place and inflation rising and falling in rapid gyrations, one also needs to consider the value of the money he receives. With maybe 1.6 trillion dollars pumped into the banking system, one needs to be aware that hyperinflation is a distinct possibility over the next few years.

Honey is edible gold, and will always have enormous power at street level. Its value in relation to eggs and milk may not change much at all. As such, it becomes a monetary unit in its own right. It may be a better money to save than gold itself.
'
The French have a word I Like. It is 'numeraire.' It roughly means, 'that by which we value all else.' Dollars are no longer a valid numeraire. So try measuring every thing you work for, everything you need, and everything you already have in pounds of honey for a while and it will give you a whole new insight into whether to buy, sell, or hold.

Honey in the tank is money in the bank!

Cheers,

JohnS

The Honey in my tank is hard as a rock.
I just finally had to buy a new truck and it cost me 34 barrels of honey. Thats down 3 barrels from last year at this time. In April I have to pick up 600 package to get another season started and that will cost me another 29 barrels. The load of FHC I just got in cost me 11 barrels. You know your right looking at it this way it isn't that bad. The only bank I use is my warehouse. By the time I get my money from the packers I have to pay everyone else. Boy if it wasn't for those Packers. It must be nice to have a free line of credit.
Ron

irwin harlton

01-27-2009, 07:39 PM

http://www.fda.gov/ora/fiars/ora_import_ia3604.html

A #36-04, 12/10/08, IMPORT ALERT #36-04, "DETENTION WITHOUT PHYSICAL
EXAMINATION OF HONEY AND BLENDED SYRUP DUE TO PRESENCE OF
***FLUOROQUINOLONES***" " ATTACHMENT A 1/5/09

some politicians are speaking up http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56372

A long and bitterly rewarded war has be waged by the American Honey Producers Association
against the contaminated Chinese honey.........it will take more time ,more money and more dedication to win this war
The FDA or the USDA have no definition of the food called honey.

Normally any contaminated food found is destroyed.......... not with honey , not that it is too valuable, it is just to dam easy to sell into a demanding market at the right price.

irwin

We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches,
we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender.
Winston Churchill

Geography has made us neighbors.
History has made us friends.
Economics has made us partners, and necessity has made us allies.
Those whom God has so joined together, let no man put asunder.
John F. Kennedy

John Smith

01-27-2009, 10:18 PM

The Honey in my tank is hard as a rock.
I just finally had to buy a new truck and it cost me 34 barrels of honey. Thats down 3 barrels from last year at this time. In April I have to pick up 600 package to get another season started and that will cost me another 29 barrels. The load of FHC I just got in cost me 11 barrels. You know your right looking at it this way it isn't that bad. The only bank I use is my warehouse. By the time I get my money from the packers I have to pay everyone else. Boy if it wasn't for those Packers. It must be nice to have a free line of credit.
Ron

Click on SAVE for that data, Ron. We need a list of what honey will buy, from trucks and real estate to milk and haircuts, so we can compare notes in 12 months and see whether or not we are gaining or losing.

With your permission, I will start a data base and post it in honey_australia noting your statistics. All I need then is for more beeks to volunteer a contribution or two and we will have our database. It could be very useful in all bartering transactions, which, I might add are VERY tax efficient. Perhaps such a data base is already going? Does anyone know of such?

My honey shed is my savings bank.

Cheers,

JohnS

Ian

01-28-2009, 08:41 AM

>>Normally any contaminated food found is destroyed.......... not with honey , not that it is too valuable, it is just to dam easy to sell into a demanding market at the right price.

I dont doubt your comments, but I really dont understand how that is possibley happening. I am very involved with the cattle industry, and you know as well as I do how sticky they are with contaminated meat. If anything is found, everything is discarded. I would only expect the CFIA to do the same with honey, and if its a case where packers arnt reporting the contaminated imports, then, dont you feel they would be setting themselves up for a big liable mess?

irwin harlton

01-28-2009, 11:37 AM

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/397445_honey26.html

jean-marc

01-28-2009, 11:49 AM

I want to comment on Irwin's post # 60. It's interesting to see that some packer's test for honey and if they refuse the load because of residue issues, they do not notify the FDA. They justify that position by saying it's not my honey so it's not my problem. At that point they've only tested the honey and have not paid for it.To a degree I understand what they are saying. The honey then re-enters the market thru another packer, at least that's what the honey broker wants.

In a way it would be in the interest of packer #1 to "blow the whistle" on that load of honey. It would be in his short term interest to have that honey removed from the market particularly if it gets offered to a second packer for a few pennies less. Packer # 1 is competing with packer #2 who has access to cheaper albeit contaminated honey.

So how come packer #1 does not blow the whistle? Does he value the relationship with the honey broker so much that he does not want to cause him any grief ? Is there such a shortage of honey that from a packer's point of vue it's better to pack honey with residue or honey that has circumvented duties than to pack no honey at all? From the packer's point of vue the worse that can happen to him is not to have honey to pack. Whether that honey is cheap or expensive if you do not have any you cannot pack it and resell it.

Jean-Marc

Ian

01-28-2009, 05:47 PM

Perhaps a government comment on the issue would be more reputalbe than that from a news link,

>>Bruce Boynton, the chief executive of the board, a trade group created by the U.S. Agriculture Department, said policing honey is the FDA's job.

I find it real hard to believe the govenment of our country would allow any known adulterated foods to be knowingly traded,

If they get caught doing so, you know, they would get jail time,..

deknow

01-28-2009, 06:15 PM

he is appointed by usda, but does not work for the usda, he works for the nhb...which is a private trade group. another officer of the nhb (bob coyle) seems to be armpit deep in the "honey laundering scam"...it seems actions have been started to seize his house.

the nhb also declared "the bee movie" an educational film, and i believe spent 1million dollars co-promoting it.

deknow

irwin harlton

01-28-2009, 08:57 PM

report a "reportable food" under the Food and Drug Administration Amendments Act of 2007 (FDAAA

http://www.foodprocessing.com/articles/2007/286.html

Failure to notify FDA of a reportable food is added to the list of "prohibited acts" in the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act.

And we in Canada are not saints, a certain eastern Canadian packer upon finding some contaminated honey in his inventory, asks the CFIA what he should do, they said ship it back to china and he did,........now if you believe that it was shipped back to china,you and I both believe in the tooth fairy.
Needless to say that packing company changed ownership last year.

I guess the bottom line is nobody has died YET from consuming contaminated honey,.... that we know of.... a person would probably have to eat several pounds at a sitting to endanger his life, unless allergic to the antibiotic chemical .Most of this product is put into the industrial bakery trade market where 10 cents worth of honey allows the manufacturer to put honey on his label.The good name of honey has been taken in vain many times
It is however burying an industry,nailing it to the cross.......the American honey industry deserves better respect from those packers handling it one step away from the consumer and from those who promote it......they are worth nothin compared to that product HONEY

Some in the industry seem to think that they can sweep this little bit of dirt under the carpet, where it can hide and no one will notice it.......but it ain't going away and neither are the AHPA

irwin harlton

01-28-2009, 09:47 PM

Give a crook enough rope and he can usually manage to hang himself. Investigators have tellexis's from his Chinese supplier stating supplier is worried about the contaminating chemical being found by FDA and supplier saying chemical is going to be around for a couple of more years...... the rewards must have been worth the risk or it was soooooooooooo easy in the past couple of years to pull this off........the market was there

Bob says he's going to get out of the honey brokerage buissiness.......pretty hard to run a buissiness from jail.......he has conspired to defraud the US govt out of alot of money.Being
homeless and in jail at the same time isn't harsh enough punishment for this low life.

Of course one is ALWAYS INNOCENT till proven guilty in a court of law.........hope they throw away the key

In China they recently executed two people in the melamaine milk scandal..............kinda like their justice for people who want to mess with food for a profit ....that causes loss of human lives

irwin harlton

01-29-2009, 08:49 AM

Low temperatures and lack of rain have damaged flowering tajonal, which consequently cause a decrease in 1,500 thousand tons of honey,

http://apitrack.com/index_en_open.htm

Ian

01-29-2009, 12:13 PM

>>certain eastern Canadian packer upon finding some contaminated honey in his inventory, asks the CFIA what he should do, they said ship it back to china and he did

I wonder what he found in the honey,?

Im confused a bit. Maybe I have just assumed any foods that have found to be adulterated have to be destroyed.
there was some packed coop labled honey in Alberta that had been taken off the shelf because of adulteration of some kind, hoeny from china.
What happened to that honey? Did they distroy it? or was it shipped off to someother market else where in the world?

irwin harlton

01-29-2009, 07:31 PM

chloramphenicol,an banned antibiotic in food OR the trademark for Chinese honey
I really forgot how nasty this stuff is

Humans may develop fatal aplastic anemia if exposed orally to chloramphenicol (risk is approximately one person in 25,000).
This condition is irreversible and is not dependent upon dosages. For this reason, chloramphenicol has been banned from food animal use in the United States as well as from human use.
Washing hands after handling this medication is recommended.

Chloramphenicol is a potent, broad-spectrum antibiotic drug and a potential carcinogen used only at therapeutic doses for treatment of serious infections in humans. Due to the unpredictable effects of dose on different patient populations, it has not been possible to identify a safe level of human exposure to chloramphenicol. Therefore, Federal regulations
in the United States, Canada and the European Union prohibit its use in food producing animals and animal-feed products,including honey bees

The FDA is concerned about any detection of chloramphenicol in foods, according to Dr. Lester M. Crawford,
FDA Deputy Commissioner. "The Agency will take whatever action is necessary to protect the public health."
Therefore there is a zero tolerance for chloramphenicol in food. FDA is requiring testing for chloramphenicol to be one using FDA's LC/MS/MS method validated down to 0.3 ppb. But any confirmed residue below this level is considered food contamination.

Seems to me zero tolerance goes out the window when contaminated honey is returned to the seller, to do with whatever he pleases with it, and the FDA,CFIA is not told of the "bad" product.

Chloramphenicol tells the packer it's chinese honey no matter what the country of
origin says on the documents.
Sue bee and a few other reptuable packers test every load that they import,even all Canadian loads..... must be alot floating around

You can even buy your own rapid ready portable test for chloramphenicol,... you guessed it, direct from china, see
http://www.alibaba.com/product/zhangshaoen-10878929-10659819/Chloramphenicol_Residue_Rapid_Inspection_Test.html

Hmmmmmmm , a couple of brands of honey on local grocery store shelves I wouldn't mind testing myself.Only takes 10 minutes and sensitivity up to 0.3ppb

http://www.adpen.com/chloramphenicol%20in%20food%20and%20feed.htm

There is also quinolones found in Chinese honey......http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoroquinolone... and the whole resistance thing to all antibiotics..none of these should be in honey ....but they are

jean-marc

01-30-2009, 09:17 AM

Ian and others:

I don't think the issue with chinese honey is adulteration. If there were better/cheaper tests for adulteration then I'm pretty sure it could become an issue. I've seen some outfits on the prairies with 4 boxes high and the feed buckets on , so one has to be careful when pointing fingers.

The issues with chinese honey are 2 fold. The residue issue with chloramphenicol, which unfortunately for them is banned in food. As Irwin pointed it's zero tolerance. So I guess being so clever it looks like they've switched to another antibiotic class fluoroquinolone. As a nation China is probably experiencing difficulties controlling AFB, EFB and who know's maybe some mutation of one of the above or some other bacterial disease.

The other issue is there great desire and ability to circumvent duties. It's unfortunate that their talents are wasted on such devious activities and not used in something productive.

Assuming that the good governement decided to destroy a load of honey, how do you suppose they would do that? I dson't think flushing it down the sewer would work to well. Just imagine granulation down the line.

Jean-Marc

irwin harlton

01-30-2009, 10:18 AM

would it fit into the production of ethanol........be burned up

Ian

01-30-2009, 01:57 PM

>>Assuming that the good governement decided to destroy a load of honey, how do you suppose they would do that? I dson't think flushing it down the sewer would work to well. Just imagine granulation down the line

HA!

But what how do you suppose a company would go about distroying a whole production run of meat? They have to destory it somehow, I suppose they would expect the packer of the contaminated honey to do the same,
Talk about costly,

Ian

01-30-2009, 01:59 PM

>>I've seen some outfits on the prairies with 4 boxes high and the feed buckets on , so one has to be careful when pointing fingers.

Just for the record, every beekeeper that operates around my area manage their operations to prevent any adulteration of anykind. Myself included,

irwin harlton

01-30-2009, 07:35 PM

jean marc said

I want to comment on Irwin's post # 60. It's interesting to see that some packer's test for honey and if they refuse the load because of residue issues, they do not notify the FDA. They justify that position by saying it's not my honey so it's not my problem. At that point they've only tested the honey and have not paid for it.To a degree I understand what they are saying. The honey then re-enters the market thru another packer, at least that's what the honey broker wants.

"In a way it would be in the interest of packer #1 to "blow the whistle" on that load of honey. It would be in his short term interest to have that honey removed from the market particularly if it gets offered to a second packer for a few pennies less. Packer # 1 is competing with packer #2 who has access to cheaper albeit contaminated honey.

So how come packer #1 does not blow the whistle? Does he value the relationship with the honey broker so much that he does not want to cause him any grief ? Is there such a shortage of honey that from a packer's point of vue it's better to pack honey with residue or honey that has circumvented duties than to pack no honey at all? From the packer's point of vue the worse that can happen to him is not to have honey to pack. Whether that honey is cheap or expensive if you do not have any you cannot pack it and resell it."

some thoughts by me on your comments Jean

The contaminated honey being returned to the broker is not viewed as a serious unhealthy product........no one has died yet ,or seriously been injured ,with a resulting lawsuit against the packer of any contaminated honey.I am sure all packers carry a good insurance package and know where to find good lawyers. This is still a law violation,(not reporting it ), and I think the law is a new one.
I cannot recall of any packer ever reporting to FDA antibiotics,adulteration or any contamination in honey. he bought or was about to buy.... this doesn't say too much about this group.This is a very small group of people, companies and they know each other like you and I know fellow beekeepers and they communicate quite well between themselves

The packer who tested and found residue has covered his butt by not buying the honey.
He does not wish to cause the broker pain, or the cost of destroying the honey, and wants to keep this supplier of large quantities as a supplier,especially if honey becomes short in supply.
Broker is looked at as a supplier of services, he supplies honey, don't shoot the messenger cause he ended up with some bad product to sell, and you may need this service down the road.China may or may not produce some good honey,depending on which packer you ask
Broker can probably supply a lot of good honey as well as the bad, which he may or may not be aware of- false or unrepresentative samples sent to the broker.
If you were a honest packer and you did accidently end up buying a load of adultrated or contaminated honey, how hard do you think it would be to get rid of it and not lose too much or any money?Me thinks not hard

The contamination could be blended out, to less than what could be found by present
testing, this I am guessing would be relatively easy, so the contaminated product becomes wholesome honey again and no one is any the wiser........ this could be and maybe is happening on regular basis.
Latest rumor I heard there was a certain packer or packers who were " specialized into" packing contaminated honey and the sting operation wasn't over yet, but soon would be. Funny one bad egg can ruin a whole carton,this might or might not be good for the industry as a whole ,right now.
The brokers soon learn who tests, who buys what ,and where the market is for this contaminated or adulterated honey, or combination of both
Its the same old game that has been playing for ages..... its called "we win" for the broker and "we win" for the packers......just got to bend the rules a bit... the big losers are the consumers and risk to their health, the producers of pure product,the US gov't which loses the revenue off circumvented honey and the entire industry .....which stoops to a new low.
Packers and their associations do not want to police themselves and the less they have to do with FDA and gov't regulations then the better off they think they are.As one packer said "FDA is the regulator". The FDA have been hampered with limited resources dealing within a small honey industry base and only a lot of pressure and sometimes personal funds by a few dedicated individuals in AHPA has resulted in the news we see.If you are a honey producer , an investment in membership here is the best investment money can buy.

One only has to look at the list of honey importing countries into the USA and Canada, how it has grown the past few years,countries who suddenly increase honey production by impossible precentages (900% in one year)....but not all of this honey is coming from china by transhipping but it is coming from all over the world. The market is growing and needs honey.It prefers cheaper imported honey,it grows even faster when that honey is cheaper than what it can be produced here for..... the industrial bakery trade market seems to be leading the pack and I fear it will be taking the biggest hit in this recession.....maybe a good thing it doesn't require pure white honey,just the cheap stuff

irwin harlton

02-02-2009, 07:59 AM

http://www.skamberg.com/honey.htm

Honey Update:

January 2009

Sioux Honey is reporting to us that they believe that there are still some
substantial price differences between legitimate honey in the world market
and honey that is highly questionable (adulterated, contaminated,
circumvented through a 3rd country). Sorting out the good from the bad can
be very difficult (costly & time consuming). Sioux is still leading the
industry with their testing, and they continue to reject any honey that
does not meet their stringent standards.

The raw honey market has been very fickle in the last few months as honey
producers throughout the world try to determine what effect the world wide
economic crisis will have on honey consumption. Prices started to soften,
then quickly firmed up because demand has not fallen off. Additionally
there appears to be more evidence of lower priced Chinese honey entering the
U.S. market transshipped through a 3rd country

Colony Collapse Disorder is still a real issue. Sioux has received reports
of some beekeepers losing up to half their colonies. More CCD reports will
probably start coming in as beekeepers prepare to move their bees into the
almond groves in California for pollination. The time period from now
through March is when we they get the best indications of how bad CCD will
be this year.

U.S consumption is still strong as we continue to consume over twice as much
honey as we produce in this country. Final numbers for the 2008 U.S. honey
crop are not in yet, but the crop was considerably better than last year.
Prices for U.S. honey were very strong as the crop came in, but we did see
some softening of those prices over the last couple months, again as
uncertainty in the economy grows

The strength of the U.S. dollar against the Euro is a factor that has helped
the U.S. to compete for some of the honey in the world market. Over the last
year, the weakened U.S. dollar had put them at a huge disadvantage competing
against Europe for the same honey. That exchange rate has fluctuated over
the last months, and most believe are now in a better position to bid for
raw honey in the world market.

Europe, whose insatiable appetite for honey has slowed a little, still is a
major factor in world honey market pricing. They continue to shy away from
Chinese and other Asian honey as they concentrate on South American honey
that is just entering the market. Much of South America is under extreme
drought conditions. Argentina has been especially hard hit, and their honey
crop projections are dismal (possibly half their normal crop).

Even with raw honey crop shortages in South America and demand for this
honey remaining strong, prices could stabilize at slightly lower prices
going into the 2nd quarter of 2009.

jean-marc

02-02-2009, 09:23 AM

With a high demand and crop shortages I don't think prices will stabilize at a lower price. They could but I don't think so. The damning thing is here we have to compete with chinese honey that is adulterated , contaminated and or is circumventing duties. We compete on price only, not quality. This is what would keep the so called legitamite honey prices from rising. So how do we as an industry change this.

Jean-Marc

soupcan

02-02-2009, 09:36 AM

Does the Canada Govt. check very close for this " funny honey " up north????

jean-marc

02-02-2009, 09:53 AM

They check. I know they check the stuff on store shelves. I don't know how close they check the industrial market. I don't think they check to many barrels coming off a shipping container, but I'm not really sure about that. Maybe others no more about that than I do. For sure they check product that's either on store shelves or about to be delivered to stores.

Jean-Marc

irwin harlton

02-02-2009, 11:03 AM

Supposedly there is a law coming up whereby all food will have country of origin,on its label. the "bad "packer or packers won't be able to sell their tainted product .........chinese labelled honey will not sell in the market place , ........... they will be forced to buy the Good honey( will drive up its price I'm sure) or lose their market share completely...... the market will fix itself ,once correct labelling is in place........... or do we end up with more transhipped honey?Was this part of the COOL program, ... not sure... Obama resened all Bush's legislation passed in last 60 days, I think this was part of it
For a better explanation please see http://www.americanhoneyproducers.org/
open American Honey Producer Magazine 4th Quarter 2007 - In PDF (633 KB)
see page 12 topic UPDATE: TRADE ORDERS ON HONEY IMPORTS
FROM CHINA AND ARGENTINA

In one way I hope you are right Jean,. about prices continuing to climb, god knows producers need fair value for their product..... the other side of the coin is what happened in 2003-2003 and producers were told the shelf price became to high( by packers) AND prices quickly dropped from their peak .... once the stimulus pkg gets rollin and the markets get to "normal" there is going to be one hell of an inflation on all prices,commodities including honey......... but thats down the road.......2 weeks at least

irwin harlton

02-02-2009, 11:50 AM

http://www.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrkti/tdst/tdo/tdo.php#tag

USA honey imports into Canada 2008 were up 62.9% from 2007............
usa was second largest importer after Australia
Usa value of imports was2.2o8M $ canadian
All honey exported by Canada is tested for CAP by US buyers, reptuable buyers!!!!!

maybe best keep your funny honey at home, we produce a surplus up here..... don't need anymore.......... all imported packaged honey and bulk is vigoursly tested by CFIA ........ anybody seen that tooth fairy

irwin harlton

02-02-2009, 12:14 PM

"That exchange rate has fluctuated over
the last months, and most believe are now in a better position to bid for
raw honey in the world market"

European honey buyers are quietly ,intently making inquires................ could quietly steal whats left of Canada's 2008 crop......... not much white honey out there.............even less will be produced in South America............ note how quickly the Brazilian crop was bought by US ,CANADA, EUROPE.......... and it wasn't primarly white ,mostly dark organic

Ian

02-02-2009, 05:26 PM

>Was this part of the COOL program

We, being Canadians, have to be very careful on where we stand on this issue. Don'T forget we are net exporters of our raw produce.

I don't disagree with labeling and all, Canada has a real reputable name when it come to food production,

What we have to be very careful with is HOW we label our foods , and what is actually involved with labeling our foods a certain way.

Remember we are trading in a worldly market, we are mixing food product from each and every way. If the labeling gets so strict that it starts requiring cost increasing processing practices, we as exporters get hit with that extra cost.
Take grain trade for example, to label that bag of flour "US", there would have to be absolute separate storage facilities, and processing runs to accommodate the legislation. Our Canadian flour, even though is has some of the best qualities in the world, gets lumped into the "foreign" label, not "Canadian", unless they decide to mill it separate. Fat chance,

Its a cost we are already seeing with our cattle trade. It has cost us .10$ / lbs and more on our meat. A cost straight from the processors passed on to the Canadian cattle producers because of increased slaughter costs incurred by having to run segregated slaughter runs.

Same thing will happen with our honey,

irwin harlton

02-02-2009, 09:45 PM

I will gladly pay it,its been around for 30 + YEARS.If thats what takes, country of origin labelling, then let it be.Producers are already paying a tremendous cost in lower prices because of it...... so prices can only get better not worse

Adultrated,contaminated,transhipped chinese honey is the curse of the world honey market,especially the northAmerican and the US market in particular where60 -70 % of the US market must be supplied from the world market.They have been effectively blocked out of the European market, leaving them only the North american market to dump into. Add to this that the chinese honey is dumped at below market prices for whatever reason..............figure the cost of this on what you could possibly get for your product.Just look at the prices they were dumping at in 2008.see http://www.honey.com/honeyindustry/stats/avgprice4countries.htm
These dumping prices affect the price of all honey,no matter what colour or grade .

Competition in industry is good, its a world market out there, what and how they are selling chinese honey is not competition, its a crime.......... and they have been getting away with it for far too long........any other food industry would have slaughtered em by now but we are a tiny, fractured , divided industry with more than its fair share of crooks

Ian

02-03-2009, 08:29 AM

>>Adultrated,contaminated,transhipped chinese honey is the curse of the world honey market,especially the northAmerican and the US market in particular

Well lets target the adulterated, contaminated, and transshipped Chinese honey then. Lets not bring in legislation that not only impedes Chinese produce, but also the rest of the trading worlds produce.
Tariff and trading restrictions do not work well with a world trading system. I know that, you know that. If its the adulterated honey we are wanting to keep out, then lets keep it out. If its simply Chinese honey we want to keep out, then, I am afraid your trying to have it both ways. Next on your list is Argentina? Brazil? Remember we Canadians also export most of our honey production,

>> will gladly pay it,its been around for 30 + YEARS.If thats what takes, country of origin labelling, then let it be.

I cant afford it. I trade more than just honey. We sell meat and grains. Legislation like this will and has already cost us, and I am afraid we are just seeing the start,

irwin harlton

02-03-2009, 12:24 PM

I agree protectionism will only lead to trade wars and a widening of the recession

yes, realize I can not have my cake and eat it too, ( would be nice, ) like the chinese have been able to currently do.
The problem being there is a market here for not only their legally duty surcharged honey plus their illegally adultrated dumped honey but
also a bigger "good' market for their illegal, contaminated product.
The even bigger problem is the current laws which allow this crooked thievery to be carried on.
No USA definition of the product honey, no ability to discern a honey by its composition to its country of origin.
Only sometihng like only 1 % of all food imports are examined at entry,so FDA Is really behind the 8 ball.
Current FDA bulletients list imported honey from Canada with imports from china,viet nam, malyasia, etc...
as having CAP in 80% of the honey imported, so FDA cannot even get that right,OR they are simply being over cautious.
The problem is not going away under the present rules and would still be a problem under the transhipped honey with country of origin rules. It may be just a choice of the lesser of two evils or one evil being easier to fix

jjgbee

02-09-2009, 10:02 PM

Rec this offer today. Argentine honey. Duty paid US Port. Wt-$1.60 ELA-$1.55, Lt Amb-$1.50 Spanish Orange-$2.20 , 100,000 lbs of each. Also have one request to export to Germany, if honey passes standards and another request to ship Sage to Saudi Arabia. The market is looking for honey. That is a good sign.

irwin harlton

02-10-2009, 09:53 AM

reports from Argentina on their honey crop are not good..............................

jjgbee

02-10-2009, 11:48 PM

In the offer of sale of Argentine honey, they estimate this year crop is down 33%.

jean-marc

02-11-2009, 08:53 AM

So that is 33 % less honey than last year from Argentina? Or are they sending the barrels 2/3 full? :)

Jean-Marc

Ian

02-11-2009, 05:29 PM

I read somewhere a frost swept across Mexico a month or two ago, and killed off one of their flowering plants. They claimed the frost cost 1500 thousand lbs. of white honey.
Any truth to this?

irwin harlton

02-11-2009, 05:55 PM

from 6.20 to 6.70 , Argentina pesos per kilogram

http://www.apitrack.com/noticias/aaacotizacionmiel_es_open.htm

jean-marc

02-11-2009, 06:49 PM

So I went to Allend's website and he has a currency converter. Today 6.7 Argentinian pesos per Kg is equal to .87$US/pound. What would freight be? 15 to 20 cents per pound. What's the duty? Cause it sure looks like the Argentinian honey broker is the man to be in all of this.

Jean-Marc

John Smith

02-11-2009, 10:01 PM

Laws and more regulations and more taxes. Just keep calling for more if that's what you want!

Have you seen that cartoon of a big crater in the main street with a ring of policemen standing around it? The caption reads, "........... and the police are looking into it."

We have country of origin labeling laws here in Australia, and the police are looking into them too!

We have jars of Powdered Honey on the shelf here, With an ingredients list like this: 100% Australian Honey, malto-dextrines. That could mean anything, but all I read into it is fraud, or at least misleading advertising. If we assume the text is technically correct and convert the jargon into simple language, powered honey could be 51% honey and 49% malto-dextrine (a technical name for a glucose syrup). It is light and fluffy too, so a jar full of it is cheap, but looks like a jar full of creamed honey at a cursory glance. I guess the police are looking into that jar too!

But what if there was a bit of a leak? What if we ran out of honey too early in the run? Would we change the label to read, Malto-Dextrine, 100% Australian Honey? The components are supposed to be listed in the order of their relative volumes. Or what if we got the lines mixed and some Chinese honey (oh, maybe it was Canadian!) got into the system, would we relabel the jars? Don't tickle me, those labels were printed possibly months before the jar was filled, and the only way they relate in any way to what goes into those jars is by intent. Have you heard what the Road to Hell is paved with? And the best laid plans of mice and men................ uh, how does that one go?

Another packer is marketing HONEY spread, with the word 'spread' not well featured on the label. Over the word HONEY in bold clear text, it reads '100% AUSTRALIAN.' The ingredients list (in 3 or 4 point text), reads, "Honey,water, sugar, pectin." A great product, no doubt, unless one was wanting honey, maybe to rub on his sunburn. Was the product 100%? or the bottle and label? or maybe the company that produced it? We have a policy here of "Truth in Advertising." The Authorities LOOK into it at times.

No doubt the police, industry officials, politicians, and consumer watchdogs are looking into lots of things. What a pity looking doesn't change things. We have what we call 'Royal Commissions" here too. Great talks fests indeed!

I would be studying the statistics there in Canada to verify that the production figures, the consumption figures and the importing figures are in the right columns. I occasionally read about how America is the food basket of the world, and how much honey she exports. No doubt she does export some honey, to the Bahamas, to her troops in Iceland etc., and perhaps, maybe to several small island states around about, but Arthur Anderson style accounting is still alive and well.

So Australia is Canada's second largest consumer, aye? We must be greedy little honey eaters here. Yet, not one bottle of honey have I see here that is labeled as being or containing, Canadian Honey. Would it be that an Australian company is buying that honey for processing and vending into Europe? Into the USA? What about back into Canada?

In musical chairs, the music always stops and there is never enough chairs to go 'round. Would that be the case if we tried to put gold to all the futures contracts, honey to all the statistics and assets to all the company shares? What about cash to all the Retirement Accounts, or hard assets to all the cyber money? Oh, well, we would have to ask the police to look into that too.

Figures don't lie, but Liars can figure.

Cheers and happy honey consuming!

JohnS

PS: Any worries with honey marketing? Let me have all your details and I will look into it!

Ian

02-12-2009, 02:47 PM

There is a pretty big Australian honey packer located in Canada, packing honey from abroad, along with Canadian honey. Suppling the US and European market. Not sure how much honey they would be using from Australia, any thoughts?

Allen Dick

02-12-2009, 02:54 PM

Today 6.7 Argentinian pesos per Kg is equal to .87$US/pound. What would freight be? 15 to 20 cents per pound. What's the duty? Cause it sure looks like the Argentinian honey broker is the man to be in all of this.

Argentina has export taxes. Not sure if this applies to honey, but they have an export sytem there that costs the producer as well as the tax AFAIK. Maybe someone else can comment on that?

Ian

02-12-2009, 03:20 PM

A far as I have been told, there is an exprot tax on all produce, Hence the farmer strikes!

jean-marc

02-12-2009, 06:59 PM

The packer Capilano happens to be the Australian beekeeping Cooperative. When they first came into the Canadian market they were the lowest price on the shelf. I'm sure their members would not have been so happy to hear that. Half way around the world and they are the cheap brand. Kinda funny though. Now they've had some sort of restructuring, I think it had to do with losing money. So they are no longer associated with Labonte. Something about losing money and low price honey on the shelf, hmmm.

On another note the Canadian Beekeepers Cooperative "Beemaid" has been selling plenty of honey in China. The Chinese apparently like Canadian honey. Last I heard 1 year ago, all was going well in the 5 year plan. At the time, they were at the end of year 2. Apparently if they are still on track then after the 5 year plan there would not be enough Canadian honey to satisfy the Chinese market. Maybe the Chinese can figure a way out to ship honey to Canada, re-label it and ship it back to themselves as Canadian. Sounds like a pretty good plan, eh?

Jean-Marc

Allen Dick

02-12-2009, 08:43 PM

On another note the Canadian Beekeepers Cooperative "Beemaid" has been selling plenty of honey in China. The Chinese apparently like Canadian honey. Last I heard 1 year ago, all was going well in the 5 year plan. At the time, they were at the end of year 2. Apparently if they are still on track then after the 5 year plan there would not be enough Canadian honey to satisfy the Chinese market.

I always said North Americans were promoting in the wrong country, and that the promotion should be happening in China where the largest potential market is and promtion costs the least.

Glad to see someone is doing it, and that it is working. Strange that it would be Beemaid, though, since they have bene such a laggard and price taker.

Ian

02-13-2009, 10:51 AM

BeeMaids CEO mentioned at the last AGM, that if BeeMaid could tap into the top 1% of the Chinese market, their members couldnt produce enough extra white and white honey to satisfy it,

>>The Chinese apparently like Canadian honey. Last I heard 1 year ago, all was going well in the 5 year plan. At the time, they were at the end of year 2. Apparently if they are still on track then after the 5 year plan there would not be enough Canadian honey to satisfy the Chinese market

They are talking the extra white premium honey,
but ya, so much potential

One thing BeeMaid has going for them, is the are a cooperative honey packer, buying honey only from its members. Single source honey supplier, supplying honey only from the Canadian prairies. They can source their production to the producer, pin point any concerns if any arise

Allen Dick

02-13-2009, 11:01 AM

Well, if you have ever tasted the "honey" packed and sold in China, you would not buy "honey" again. My wife bought me a jar when she was over there (complete with pictures of bees, etc.) and when we opened it we decided immediately that there was NO honey in it. It was awful.

I can see why the Chinese consumers would buy Canadian honey, or honey from any other country if they knew it was real and had tasted it once, AND they could be sure that the supplier was consistent.

Chinese customers tend to be quite shrewd, (justifyably) wary and expect value. Hey, they are just like any other consumers.

All the advertising in the world can only get a person to try a product once. If that experience is bad, then the product fails.

The Chinese packers selling awful "honey" have done the market some harm, but if the consumers can differentiate that junk from real honey, the sky is the limit.

John Smith

02-13-2009, 06:39 PM

Ian, Re: Msg. 101,
Plenty of thoughts, but no hard data. I was told that same company has packing plants in Argentina as well. I doubt if much Australian honey goes into North America owing to your preference for light flavor, but specialty lines of Eucalypt for the connoisseurs’ market may be bigger than I think. There are certainly a lot of Aussies living in California. I doubt if much white honey is required to come back in to Australia, as our average shelf pack will need lots of eucalypt flavor to fly well. In short seasons, mind you, some white would be welcome to soften the darker/stronger flavored grades. Mostly, I assume that company sells the bulk of its Australian input (mixed with what? only the gods would know) into Europe as Organic Honey, at considerably better prices. The Europeans are really hooked on that word Organic.

Jean-Marc (105)
For sure, honey is like gold, in as much as it circumnavigates the planet in the effort to reduce the impact of shortages and rising production costs. Traceability and proof of authenticity is scarcely possible. The paper trail and the official approvals at best looks like just another ‘license to cheat.’ In the case of gold, who cares? In the case of honey, Who Cares? If it were not for the lies we are fed about the honey market, even the beekeepers probably wouldn’t be so concerned about honey’s travels.

Re: 103/4,
The big advantage the world’s buyers had in Argentina for so long was that the beekeepers there thought they were getting better prices for their honey owing to the inflation of their currency. Now that the inflation bubble has burst there, the farmers are a bit more awake. Anyone asleep in North America? There are plenty asleep here in Australia. They don’t realize that despite the rising dollar value of their honey, they are still losing margin.

If you want a really good price for your honey sell it to Zimbabwe! You could be a millionaire overnight!

Allend (108),
Right ON! China is the best market for honey in the world! Owing to the length of time their society has been established, their beekeepers have been letting standards slip (for hundreds of years?) to the point where now, their honey is almost inedible to my taste too.

One main flaw is that they don’t let the honey ripen in the comb. At times (if my information is correct) they spin the combs on a daily basis. This unripened nectar ferments, the honey granulates rapidly and the syrup may be sold off locally from the top of the keg. This part I have seen with my own eyes. The Chinese poor cannot afford to eat honey any more so than the Americans can afford to hold gold. As an international commodity (much in demand, I might add) a pail of honey can cost many a price equal to a weeks wages.

However, despite popular beliefs, China has more rich people than any other nation. So if only 1% of them were offered good honey from your country or mine, I am sure they would go for it in a big way.

Another aside of interest, is that when you see a Chinese population in San Francisco (for instance) you may not notice that a percentage of them are constantly being recycled back through China. The point here is that quite a number of the Chinese in China have traveled and lived elsewhere and know what honey is supposed to be.

It was reported in ‘Lonely Planet’ that no Chinese person has ever died in the UK, according to the births, deaths and marriages records. This is overstated, I am sure, but wait for it: The passports are constantly being mailed back to China! You can’t help but love the Chinese. They are the world’s masters at keeping their mouths shut while they get on with the business of prospering. Many centuries of oppressive governmental burdens have taught them this.

Governmental burdens? What’s that?

Cheers,
JohnS

irwin harlton

02-13-2009, 09:25 PM

Capalinao had trouble blending out the nitofurons a couple of years ago in their Argentina packing plants.If I remember correctly some of the tainted stuff ended up in Canada.
What does Eucalyptest honey sell for or pay the beekeeper in Aussie land? I think the taste may have been Capilano's downfall in Canada, that and the effort to be the cheapest product on a couple of grocery store chain shelfs broke them.
Heard BeeMaids Chinese market was a couple of container loads every 2 months....... be a long time emptying the Canadian honey crop at that rate........ this may or may not be true.

Irwin
Got no quarrel with those that sell for less........................they obviously know what their stuff is worth

Ian

02-14-2009, 07:14 PM

>>couple of container loads every 2 months....... be a long time emptying the Canadian honey crop at that rate........ this may or may not be true.

Probably true, but its a start, and to build a reputation, you have to start somewhere,
That one percent quote was given just to give a sense of perspective,

John Smith

02-15-2009, 05:36 PM

Don’t wind me up too much, …………….you’ll get us both excommunicated!

Farm gate prices in New South Wales are about US$1.00 per pound for what we consider top quality (Yellow Box, being our favorite Eucalypt honey). Advertised prices and prices paid are not necessarily the same and most information is considered ‘private’ or ‘commercially sensitive.’

Caveat Emptor in reverse would be: Let the vendor beware. Few beekeepers here have an ‘asking price.’ Most adds ‘To Buy’ simply say, “Top Prices Paid.” Too many good years when Capilano was a young and beekeeper owned institution led the beekeepers to trust the buyers and not challenge the price. Now they have mostly lost any negotiating skills they may have once had.

Capilano is now one of the few publicly listed companies dedicated to honey. Their shares are in the toilet at the moment, but someone is still buying them. If the company survives this downturn, their shares could become as good as gold! Sheri questioned whether or not the Health aspect of the market would continue. My answer is an emphatic YES. Honey is set to go through the roof. The savy investor will soon be getting ‘primed up’ and buying their shares will be on the menu. I haven't bought any yet! I have my retirement money tied up in big barrels.

A license to cheat (Organic Producer Certification) can increase one’s price by 30 percent.

I advertised honey in drums to the commercial food industry and received nil responses. They appear to know they are buying glucose with a dash of honey and seem to have no interest in buying honey from beekeepers. I spoke to a person at a social event who worked in the Seventh Day Adventist food factory and he was most adamant that they put honey in the cereal they manufacture. The label on their product does not confirm this. So they obviously ‘call’ it honey there in the factory………. Oh yes, big drums of it coming in all the time! One can only wonder why they don’t put it on their mandatory ingredients list!

The supermarket is a strong market. Honey is priced on the shelf at or about 4 times its worth at the farm gate. Beekeepers who market direct some of their (or entire) product never had it so good. Entrepreneurial marketing has the sky for a limit, of course.

Big losses in foreign exchange futures are touted to have been the downfall of large honey consortiums here. The Aussie Dollar is pretty much at the mercy of the Gnomes of Zurich. Also, with lengthy contracts with Supermarket Chains, some had to jack prices up very high at one point to cover themselves. Either that or they hoped to squeeze the small packers out, but the net result was a heap of overpriced stock after a huge spring crop came in. Not being very smart, they attributed that to the higher prices offered. They obviously don't understand honey flows in a desert continent!

When everyone is losing, there is little fat in the fire for anyone.

We have a strong immigrant population here, and they are an insatiable market for honey.
I am very suspicious (of everything?) of the nitrofurans argument. Mostly we use our science to support our economic needs, not to protect our health.

If we all knew how many legal carcinogens are in all the other factory foods we consume we would gag! It would be debatable that the Chinese population is less healthy than the North American one. Obesity is conspicuously absent there, anyway.
If North Americans eat less than one percent of their sugar intake as honey, I can’t see why a poison measured in parts per million (or billion?) is likely to cause any increase in anorexia!

If the Chinese and the Argentineans are using these nitrofurans, perhaps they are better antibiotics than those we manufacture and market in Westernized countries. After all, they have the big surpluses of honey and we are unable to produce enough for ourselves. But do our regulators have permission from the World Health Organization to accept Chinese antibiotics? The plot sickens! What is a carcinogen and what is not is subject to the judgment of the expert. We do not encourage feeding test over extended periods. Even our much vaunted ‘Toxicity’ tests are mainly carried out on the young, (university students?) who everyone knows can eat manure without much shock!

Ian Steppler has it Right (Msg.111). With confidence in our world’s institutions at an all time low, the only way the honey industry can regain its rightful market share is if we start at the beekeeper level and rebuild our market from there. That is why I am so excited about “The Honey Revolution.”

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225156&highlight=honey+revolution

Someone play “The Last Post” as I am out of here for a while! Would rather not destroy my welcome all at once!

Cheers,
JohnS

TwT

02-15-2009, 06:49 PM

look at this

http://business.theage.com.au/business/climate-crises-to-sour-honey-prices-20090215-8840.html

irwin harlton

02-15-2009, 09:31 PM

http://larouchepac.com/news/2009/02/11/world-food-crisis-crops-threatened-both-northern-and-souther.html

jean-marc

02-15-2009, 09:40 PM

Odem was buying any Canadian honey at $1.60/lb last week and $1.75/lb for clover.

Jean-Marc

Ian

02-16-2009, 11:56 AM

That is a good price improvment.

JohnK and Sheri

02-16-2009, 01:31 PM

Odem was buying any Canadian honey at $1.60/lb last week and $1.75/lb for clover.
Jean-Marc
You are talking C$, correct? That would be around $1.40 US, an improvement from what we have been offered recently, hoping this trend continues.
Sheri

irwin harlton

02-16-2009, 05:06 PM

http://calc.customhouse.com/ratecalc/ratecalc.aspx?pid=1&curr=CAD&amount=1.6&refCurr=USD&

1.60can =1.27USD........... plus freight ,plus duty............ US or European packer getting a steal of a deal

or
[url]http://www.xe.com/

Live rates at 2009.02.17 00:21:33 UTC
1.60 CAD= 1.28715USD

Canada Dollars United States Dollars
1 CAD = 0.804469 USD 1 USD = 1.24306 CAD

JohnK and Sheri

02-16-2009, 05:50 PM

1.60can =1.27USD.
Yeah, and 1.75CAD = $1.406US. I use xe also.:)
The $1.27 is a bit lower than we have been quoted. We too were told by a US Packer "We can get all the Canadian honey we want delivered for $1.25, but we don't want to leave out the US beekeeper". Nice of him, eh?
So even $1.27 looks like an improvement to me, and $1.40 for clover (which is what we have) is heading towards where it peaked last year. Moving in the right direction at least.
Sheri

irwin harlton

02-16-2009, 09:50 PM

"We can get all the Canadian honey we want delivered for $1.25, but we don't want to leave out the US beekeeper". Nice of him, eh?

That cheap 1.25- 1.28USD Canadian honey

is rapidly evaporating............should be all gone by now.............only higher priced honey left, me thinks

I wonder how much the depression has crushed or shrunk demand IF AT all.......
Packers and brokers are playing the game well........... get as much now, as cheap as possible , cause down the road honey is going to be more costly.Bet they are all carrying short inventories infear of worse things to come in the economy

irwin harlton

02-18-2009, 08:52 AM

http://www.apitrack.com/noticias/aaacotizacionmiel_es_open.htm

FROM 6.70 t0 6.90........................... as the big move begun?

Beeslave

02-22-2009, 09:17 PM

Couldn't hold off anymore! $1.30 lb ELA last 25 drums. Run out of Amish to by for $1.65 lb by the drum. Now the rest is sold they(amish) will be calling for another 10 drums tomorrow.

irwin harlton

02-24-2009, 12:45 PM

close to Los Angeles, FOB Rowland Heights CA 91748. ............item found on Bee L,

The old chinese limbo game..........how low can we go.......... organic from Mongolia, or it would be lower priced.......... currently being tested for everthing under the sun........sold by Mega Farms

Ian

02-25-2009, 08:26 PM

Sell your honey now while its high boys,

jean-marc

02-25-2009, 08:38 PM

Me thinks it's going higher yet. The full impact of a short Argentina crop has yet to be felt. Keep in mind that this man sold his honey a long time ago.

Jean-Marc

Ian

02-26-2009, 08:51 AM

ha, no doubt.
much easier to make these kind of decisions on the side lines ;)

irwin harlton

02-26-2009, 09:49 PM

http://apitrack.com/index_en_open.htm

ARGENTINA- INCREASING THE PRICE PAID TO HONEY PRODUCERS
As reported by the Grain Stock Exchange in Buenos Aires today, has increased the producer price per kilogram of honey, export quality, kg per drum to $ 7.50 (+8.7%), equivalent to 2.10 U.S. dollars per kilogram (+6%). According to the calculations of the beekeeper Jorge Cargnelutti, this figure would show a value of exports from Argentina to dollars $ 2.69 per kilogram and an apparent value in the global market of 3.2 dollars per kilogram (without a net import surcharges)

We are now back to the price that was being offered in oct 2008......... will rise continue on further news of the poor crop?....... US packers were buying domestic honey cheaper last fall

jean-marc

02-28-2009, 07:41 AM

It is sure nice to see prices that approach profitibality. If this continues we might even get a return on the investment.

Jean-Marc

Ian

02-28-2009, 09:52 AM

I have been reading cropping reports of world weather conditions. This past year showed some unfavourable conditions, resulting in production deficits, yet there still has been a huge amount of food produced world wide.
Predictions for subsequent cropping conditions are favourable. So much so that there is the feeling of an abundance of food produced.
IF this is the case, we are probably looking at a decrease in food commodities into the next year. That is IF, remember, IF this doesn't hold true, then we stay in the black. From what I have been observing over the last few years is that honey production does tend to follow the same rules as cropping production. No crop, no honey. Lots of crop, lots of honey.

All I am saying, is look at the charts. This is a high price paid for honey. Might want to take it while its high. Sell old crop at a high price, sell new crop after its in your drums. Dont put all your eggs in one basket,

wildbranch2007

03-01-2009, 06:28 AM

wife went to the super market the other day, they are selling 5lb jars for $9.49..... She didn't check the label but will next time, anyone know how much it costs to get honey checked for contaminents?? or where?

mike

suttonbeeman

03-01-2009, 08:09 AM

wildbranch....ABF(american beekeeping federation)has tesing available for free. If you are not a member I'm not sure but you may call them (google web site). If not a member I encourage you to join. Also we need to get the honey standard passed in each state. This is the standard that FDA said they didnt have enough time to do. It gives a legal defination of honey and gives beekeepers or othewr injured parties the right to sue the adulterator for damages. Just passed in Florida. Guess we should start a thread on here about this. Sure would help out prices....no more "honey syrup". Ill get one going today or soon about it and what ou can do! Rick

jean-marc

03-01-2009, 09:58 AM

The honey standard will certainly change the honey market. The ability to sue the packer who sells adulterated/contaminated honey will change the way things are done. I also wonder what unintended consequences this will have on the market? I guess time will tell.

Jean-Marc

Ian

03-01-2009, 07:52 PM

>>Sure would help out prices....no more "honey syrup".

not sure what you mean on that, honey syrup isnt illegal,
Passing it off as pure honey is though,
I am assuming your refering to Chinese honey in regards to that.

slickbrightspear

03-01-2009, 08:13 PM

my father was not paying attention and went to the store and bought what he thought was a jar of honey, after he got home and looked at it it is imitation honey. I have not had a chance to look at it yet and see what it is but it is not honey. he says honey was written real big and imitation was real small in a corner.

Ian

03-01-2009, 08:18 PM

ya that sucks!

but its not illegal, not until the government changes the regulation in regards to that issue.

irwin harlton

03-02-2009, 10:40 AM

http://www.usda.gov/nass/PUBS/TODAYRPT/hony0209.txt

Reactions in 2008 to Nass HONEY REPORT
www.nass.usda.gov/research/reports/Price_Reactions_After_the_Official_Release_of_the_ NASS_Honey_Publication.pd...............
............ NO REACTION , low import prices determine the market price?

jean-marc

03-03-2009, 08:29 AM

Irwin:

You're second posting "Reaction to ...." is not coming up something about illegal gateway. See even the computers get in on the action at the mere mention of chinese honey.:)

irwin harlton

03-03-2009, 03:51 PM

Essentially the reaction to the annual NASS report is ziltch, it does not affect the market according to NASS...........how much the recession will affect the demand for honey is the big question........Packers would like producers to believe their is a limit to the price they can put it on the shelf for.............and their is a limit no doubt, but what is that limit , is it 1.50 1.75 1.85
Will the shortage increase this shelf price limit?

Producer honey stocks were 50.4 million pounds on December 15, 2008, down 4 percent from a year earlier.This is not alot of influence on the total market of 388-450 million lbs of which 265 million is imported.Alot of chinese either legal or illegally transhipped honey is in that imported honey .................keeping the price low

cleareyes

03-04-2009, 07:38 AM

The link was missing the f for. pdf

http://www.nass.usda.gov/research/reports/Price_Reactions_After_the_Official_Release_of_the_ NASS_Honey_Publication.pdf

Trevor Mansell

03-05-2009, 05:29 AM

irwin harlton

03-08-2009, 02:14 PM

http://apitrack.com/noticias-607_en_news.htm. .................this should drive prices higher

irwin harlton

03-11-2009, 03:04 PM

http://www.apitrack.com/noticias/aaacotizacionmiel_es_open.htm

increase from 7.70 to 8.0 in Argentina pesos, 1USA dollar = 3.5576 pesos, price is per kilogram

jean-marc

03-11-2009, 03:48 PM

So translated into American 8 pesos per kg at the rate Irwin was quoting equals
$U.S.2.25/Kg or $1.02/lb. That's price paid to producer I believe. It wasn't that long ago I remeber Irwin posting 6.30 pesos per kg. That's about a 25% increase in price in less than 2 months. Hmmm, makes you wonder.

Jean-Marc

Ian

03-11-2009, 04:31 PM

My honey buyer was mentioning the trade of honey is steady at 1.5$/lbs Canadian, and there have been honey trades of larger quantities of white honey for up to 1.75$/lbs Canadian.
We are sitting in a bull market right now, with stronge fundimental support.
Its going to take the next productive season to break this trend, whens the next significant honey crop reported to come in?

jean-marc

03-11-2009, 08:56 PM

Northern hemisphere crop, july august by my way of seeing things.

Jean-Marc

irwin harlton

03-12-2009, 09:48 AM

I am not sure what this price puts Argentina honey at, say landed in New York, but the packers are holding their cards close , seem to be feeding themselves hand to mouth , and are going to buy where ever is the cheapest, and the cheapest last fall and now seems to be USA and Canada........... panic buying mode has not set in yet, due probably to the economic conditions........ haven't heard of any downturn in sales from any sellers.... Canadian broker figures there is not a lot of honey left in Canada

Ian

03-12-2009, 10:29 AM

>>Northern hemisphere crop, july august by my way of seeing things.

So if the Southern hemisphere has already shown all its cards, and the next crop to come in July, we are looking at May June being the next significant cropping forecast to influence the market place. How about Chinas honey crop, when does there next crop come in?

Is Chinese incoming honey being held back? Or have they seen a smaller crop aswell?
I know most of their wheat producing provinces have experienced major dryness. So much so there wheat production forcasts have been almost cut in half. I would have to assume that would reflect on their honey production within that area, and its a big area. Is there any mention of this within the honey market news?

irwin harlton

03-12-2009, 07:52 PM

http://www.americanhoneyproducers.org/

Thursday, March 12, 2009

World Honey Market Report by Ron Phipps March 2009

World Honey Market Report by Ron Phipps January 2009 Click here.

Ron Phipps Market Update
February 3, 2009 Click here.

irwin harlton

03-22-2009, 08:31 PM

http://s43.photobucket.com/albums/e365/buzz1356/?actio

Markets have become , shall I say volatile.............canadian dollar went from 1.25 US to 1.22 on friday............ just how weak will the US dollar become????????
and over 1.50 for Argentina 85mm...........maybe their trying to sell that dark stuff too cheap lol

irwin harlton

03-24-2009, 07:51 PM

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/schmidt/2009/0324.html
the cheaper food as a result of a falling US dollar will create more demand and higher prices

wildbranch2007

03-25-2009, 08:00 AM

[url]the cheaper food as a result of a falling US dollar will create more demand and higher prices

my question is since the chinese currency is pegged to the dollar, and the dollar falls that means the amount the chinese are paid to produce goods also falls, and the price that paid for imported honey from china also goes down??
correct or wrong??
If so the falling dollar doesn't help the price of honey it hurts it??

thanks mike

jean-marc

03-25-2009, 08:55 AM

Wrong. If chinese honey does not change in price, then the packer who purchased chinese honey say at $1.00/lb (I'm assuming he has converted his US dollars into chinese currency and paid for the honey in chinese currency). Today the same packer wants to purchase more honey but his US dollar is now only worth 90 cents because in the drop of the currency value. If the price of the chinese honey has not changed then the US packer has to come up with about 10% more money for the same honey.

Jean-Marc

John Smith

03-25-2009, 08:08 PM

Measuring currencies against each other will drive one mad. When there is no fixed value in anything, what does one compare to? The French use the word, 'numeraire,' meaning 'that by which one measures all else.'

Unfortunately we commoners are programmed to measure everything by our local Legal Tender. It is a trap and we must quit it. You are playing hard ball against experts when you try to beat the currency markets.

When all of the corks bobbing up and down in the ocean start claiming to be the highest one, or the ONLY one at mean sea level or the one closest to hell, you can pretty much say they are all lying.

Altitude in China is not measured from mean sea level. It is measured from the paving outside the Imperial Palace, which is not that far removed from sea level, but obviously still above it.

The is one caution that applies to ALL transactions known as 'trade.' It is called, Caveat Emptor.

There is no such thing as a level playing field. If you are dishonest, you rob banks, but if you are honest, the bank robs from you. Welcome to the real world. Always deal with someone sillier than you are and you will make easy money.

And remember the two great rules:

1)Never give out everything at once!

Cheers,

John

irwin harlton

03-26-2009, 12:58 PM

John, I would love to know how Capilanio can buy Canadian bulk honey ,ship it to Australia, blend it with supposidly Austrailian honey, ship the packed product back to canada or north america and still be cheaper than any Canadian packed honey on the shelf......... the wonders of cheap world trade and shipping or maybe a little cheap chinese honey involved somewhere......... this big public owned packer didn't get to be big by being Mr Nice guy.... and his huge losses the last couple of years should make him even more cautious....... maybe all the money being made is in the exchange rate on the aussie dollar?sOME VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN IN THE hONEY INDUSTRY

Joel

03-26-2009, 07:56 PM

And remember the two great rules:

1)Never give out everything at once!

Cheers,

John

Nice Post John but what's the 2nd rule?

John Smith

03-26-2009, 11:04 PM

Capilano is not a private company. Profit on that particular line of honey may not be their sole motivating factor. Capilano (in my humble opinion <imho>) is being groomed up to profit from a coming surge of interest in the world of honey............ and that profit is not necessarily to come from selling honey, it will come from selling shares. It will eventually be crashed as a hollow shell after the manipulators have siphoned off all its assets and milked the gullible public who will eventually own all the shares. You have seen the white ants eat many companies this way, I am sure.

Someone is slowly buying up all the shares from all the original shareholders, who incidentally were beekeepers, as it was built to be a producer owned enterprise. However, once the founders retired and the business too aged, it fell into the hands of the managerial cult, who only know how to rape businesses for profit, not love them for their creative potential. The movie “Pretty Woman” was all about this type of mentality. The sex in that movie was just the brocade gown it was wrapped in.

If carbon credits became a reality, such honey ‘laundering’ would soon be revealed as having far too high a carbon footprint. Such a reality could upset a very great many enterprises, so there is no guarantee that the best of these managers will succeed in their efforts to make off with a nice severance parcel.

Capilano has as good a chance of succeeding as any, (imho), owing to the very high degree of credibility and hardnosed reality there is in the honey industry generally as well as in that particular brand name. Their shares should be easier to merchandise than their honey, as people would much rather have some paper assets for their hard earned money than pay a little extra for some good honey.

Nearly nine percent of wages paid in Australia is compulsorily kept back from the worker and invested in retirement funds for them. We call it Superannuation in Australia. This creates a massive flood of capital looking for a safe place to be invested (yes, every payday), which of course makes the stock market shine. Already for years now, there is a scramble on to create enough paper companies to issue enough stock to absorb this flood of capital. One ‘public’ company was floated to operate brothels…………….. Its shares soared the first day it hit the market. I can’t tell you just what happened after that as I have not followed its success or otherwise (some of those girls could be sitting on a fortune now!). But the average company life (publicly listed) is only about ten years here. So you can see why a company with the sound grounding of a honey consortium (now having grown to be an international one) and also one with a contracted supplier base, almost a psychologically captive one, will fly well once all the shares are in the right pockets.

Capilano also pack cane sugar products. You are welcome to make whatever you like out of that. But honey lost its edge a hundred or more years ago owing to there being more profit in factory sugars, so maybe the Golden Syrup (as we call it here) is carrying the company while they make losses establishing their overseas markets for honey. No doubt you have heard how difficult it is to dispose of such a massive glut of honey each year!

A considerable amount of Manuka honey is imported into Australia too, often to mix with our local equivalent but one which didn’t get the leading edge on the market as far as the naming game goes. Our Ti Tree honey originally was licensed under the trade name, Medi-Honey, but that brand and the company that owned it was sold by Capilano to the Kiwis, so the international wonders of how the lord does brings things to pass never seems to end, aye?

If you really want to know how strange this honey industry is, you need to read that book, The Honey Spinner, by an Australian author, Grace Pundyk. Honey is so primary, so basic, and yet so magical it is almost in the class with romance and witchcraft and the Tales of Neptune. Lunacy is the word!

I wouldn’t worry overmuch about Capilano’s reported losses. No doubt they make some at times, but it is probably very much in their interest at the moment to be crying poor. Profits and losses at that level are easily managed for fun and profit. Do you remember Arthur Andersen? Spread sheets can be terribly confusing; there are simply so many columns!

Europe is so hungry for the word “organic” I am sure they would buy synthetic honey, even so labeled, if it also had the word ‘organic’ printed on it in large, gold and bold type.

Australia’s reputation of being so under-populated, remote, clean and green, gives us quite a strong standing as a honey marketer. Brazil is only coming into its own as an organic source owing to Australia’s inability to supply (imho). Their droughts are a few seasons behind ours, so it will be interesting to discover just what we can mix with our dark honey to make it fly in the world’s supermarkets. It may matter little from whence it came as long as a Kangaroo brought it. But don’t be alarmed if the shares go up in the companies that make mirrors, because we are going to be doing a lot with mirrors in the years to come.

If you find that absurd, just do some Googling and find out what the critics are saying about human-like insulin. I may write a few lines on that one myself soon. You will have to wade into pretty deep water to find those critics, mind you, as the big money is on the side of the product’s patent owners.

The bigger question still hangs over these super hospital-friendly medical products being developed and sold under brand names as Super Honey, bigger and better than just common ole honey. They could become our best market for real honey if it was required of them to feed their bees a smidgen or two of real honey, from floral sources.

Australia has not produced any great crop of white honey for many years now. What little we do get is sorely needed to lighten our Eucalypt honeys so a standard golden line can be maintained. So it is very convenient to be able to say, if cornered, "Oh yes, we did have to bring in a little bit of Canadian White for blending purposes. Was that last year, or was that the year before?" If you reckon that might not fly, just compare it with how convinced you and yours are that your honey is coming back to you!#@!$%. ........or did it ever leave North America? Capilano have a packing plant in Canada too!

Irwin, I decided long ago to leave the running of the world to the Gnomes of Zurich as it is far more difficult to fathom that project than it is to work out what the lord wants. So I just watch and listen (and spill my guts on occasion) and put my own price on my honey and wait and see if anyone will buy it. I am nowhere near generous and public spirited enough to sell it at or below my costs. Either I get paid as well as the girl next door, or I don’t work.

Or, as our Prime Minister says, ………..Sorry, Sorry, Sorry, ………………….Thank You, Thank You, Thank You, ………… I Knew It, I Knew It, I Knew It, …………………….

Neehow!

John

PS: Please send our PM back home. His show here needs him.

GemBeeHoney

03-27-2009, 05:17 PM

Please stop blending light coloured honey with my dark stuff to make it more marketable.
The only question I get asked here is if the bees were near sugar cane , because that makes the honey darker and less flavoursome.
Not within 200km!
Even a good bee wont fly that far.
I like my dark(er) honey. I like the coolibah and the lemon scented gum even the stingy wilga. There is enough ironbark to lighten it up.
Keep your whites and extra whites away.
Market your Dark honey as organic/gourmet honey - charge a premium. It will fly off the shelves. Get a celebrity chef to love it! Even better.

Honey has variety - its like wine. No two seasons the same no two regions the same. It's the marketing thats crap not the product.

Martyn

irwin harlton

03-28-2009, 09:33 AM

have parted company, remain closely tied in some marketing endeavours, Capilanio now packing its products in Ausssie land and shipping from there. Usually lowest shelf priced honeys have something all in common , a cheaper chinese honey content, and or adultration of the honey making for more profit for the packer

irwin harlton

03-28-2009, 12:04 PM

HONEY MARKET UPDATE

March 19, 2009

Ronald P. Phipps

The recent surge in honey prices from South America have caused many to ask why prices are rising so steeply and so quickly when the nation is under such economic stress. I think the rise is too precipitous. For example, we received offers from Argentina this week for combinations of honey that include 1 container of White 34MM, 1 container of 50MM, 4 containers of 60MM, 2 containers of 70MM, and 8 containers of 85MM at over USD1.50/lb., ex-dock. Shipments from Vietnam have been delayed and new offers are presently hard to find. Ex-dock prices East Coast have risen to about USD1.10/lb. Brazilian offers for conventional white honey have been reached USD1.50/lb. and conventional ELA honey USD1.40/lb.. These increases stand in sharp contrast to the low prices of all the Chinese honey that has been circumvented into the U.S.A. through one form of circumvention or another.

What is happening to cause such steep increases of South American honey prices is Europe is turning its attention to Brazil given the consequences of the severe drought in Argentina and the consequence absence of white honey. Yesterday, the Federal Reserve injected another astonishing U.S. one trillion dollars into the economy by purchasing a massive amount of Treasury Bonds. As suggested in earlier market reports, a dramatic increase in money supply portends both: a) de-value the U.S. Dollar and b) a change from deflationary pressures into inflationary pressures. The U.S. Dollar has now reversed its earlier strengthening and is weakening relative to all major currencies. Essential commodities such as petroleum and agricultural commodities are rising in price.

While people can suspend or delay purchase of luxury goods, people can neither suspend nor delay eating. Demand remains active and strong. This is the good news. Changes in currency valuations, including a significant strengthening of the Euro relative to the U.S. Dollar as the money supply of U.S. Dollar has increased is playing a significant role in the surge of honey prices from South America. Short and darker crops in Argentina, increased demand from Europe and the fall in the U.S. Dollar underlie what would otherwise be aberrational increases in the market.

added by me ............. Argentina has suffered in the past from its own high inflation and currancy devaluation plus the anti dumping duty which is included in to the brokers offerings. Offerings are not sales and current sales of US and Canadian honey are lower priced and the volume left to sell is definitely small

irwin harlton

04-05-2009, 06:35 AM

and the US dollar value in its index, show me getting a better return from a Canadian Broker than selling and shippnig directly to a US packer,....hmmmmmmm
Two possible reasons for this price disparity.
1 The broker is stockpiling in anticipation of future price increases,hardly likey or
2The broker is receiving a better price than me from the packer ,on account of the volume and the packer broker relationship

I can see why a packer loves these brokers, easy to pick up 10-20 loads from one entity than dealing with 20 beekeepers and besides they both belong to that exculusive club ,the National Honey board , which is funded by you and I.So the packers and brokers are close, or in bed with one another.This close relationship is readily seen when the reputable packer refuses the contaminated chinese honey but does not report this honey to the FDA,as it should be by law.That whole thing is futher complicated by the fact there is no clear definition of the product honey in US law
The packers do not want to offend this valuable buying tool
The packers think they really need these people and they probably do serve some usefull purpose like tits on a bull.The percentage of all honey sold by brokers,is probably quite high as compared to the amount sold by Beekeepers to packers.To me, I think of them as a parasite,perhaps maybe useful somewhere , but only looking after themslves and not really being a great asset to the industry from the producers side.I personally think in the present market,US, Canadian brokers are helping the packers hold down the price of domestic honey.
Just look at the Argentina offerings and the current packer offering's on domestic honey.... they are 10 cents apart

irwin harlton

04-08-2009, 06:50 PM

http://www.safehaven.com/article-7708.htm

I agree with Ned , with more disposable income available in China, more and better food will be bought,more of their domestic honey will be bought and eaten, and more honey will be imported in to china.

Supply and demand tells me the US market should be rising , and recent offers from Argentina
for both white and dark @1.50 confirm these brokers know alot about the supply side and are not afraid to ask for what they figure there product is worth.
The negatives are only packers fearing the economic and financial problems and the effects of high priced product in the large industrial market,which has always been fed by lower priced lower grade honey.The Industrial ,bakery trade market may just crash and burn as it has in the past,.Seems there is more value in putting the word HONEY in your ingredients than paying a good price for the honey.
Current news:, Canadian packer buying at 1.75,picked up at sellers dock,,freight paid by buyer,drums lost............. this is ..... as far as I know..... better than any US offers
I think the price will rise further and faster.......... there is NOT alot of white honey out there , there is NOT alot of honey in the world period

irwin harlton

04-11-2009, 09:10 AM

USA- FIVE AMERICAN FOOD PRODUCERS FILE A 1 BILLON DOLLARS LAWSUIT, FOR ALLEGED DAMAGES CAUSED BY CHINESE PRODUCTS
Five American food product producers file a $1-billion dollars lawsuit seeking class-action status against a handful of major insurance companies and the U.S. government for alleged damages caused by dumped Chinese food products. The five producers are Sioux Honey Association, Adee Honey Farms, Monterey Mushrooms Inc., The Garlic Co. and Beaucoup Crawfish of Eunice Inc.

http://www.apitrack.com/

JohnK and Sheri

04-11-2009, 11:40 AM

My first initial reaction is "WOW!", anything that slows imports means a price spike here.
So what are the alleged damages? Are they talking unfair pricing due to dumping again? Damages from contamination/adulteration?
I can see lawsuits to strongly encourage enforcement of rulings already in place, and to close the loopholes but why the insurance companies?
I would love additional details if any are available.
Sheri

Ian

04-11-2009, 10:22 PM

>>government for alleged damages caused by dumped Chinese food products. The five producers are Sioux Honey Association, Adee Honey Farms, Monterey Mushrooms Inc., The Garlic Co. and Beaucoup Crawfish of Eunice Inc.

Now the dirt hits the fan! This is kind of what has been discussed around here a while back. What was happening, or what seemed to be happening didnt quite make much sence ,

irwin harlton

04-18-2009, 10:21 AM

translated from http://www.noticiasapicolas.com/index.htm

Drive up the honey in the entire region. Should sell honey at the moment?

NoticiasApicolas.com (17 de Abril de 2009) Esta es la frase que muchos apicultores mencionan en esta epoca. NoticiasApicolas.com (April 17, 2009) This is the phrase that many beekeepers mentioned at this time. Desde mails, llamados por telefono a nuestra redaccion ya los periodistas de Apicultura sin Fronteras hasta los mensajes de texto son el reflejo sobre lo que le preocupa al apicultor en este momento. From mails, phone calls to our editors and journalists of Beekeeping Without Borders to the text messages are a reflection of what the beekeeper is concerned at this time.
Como te lo dijimos en nuestro medio ,y lo podes corroborar en nuestra seccion de economia apicola, el mercado de la miel en Sudamerica despues de Semana Santa empezó a moverse en alza nuevamente. As I said in our midst, and we can verify in our economy Apicola, the market for honey in South America after Easter began to move upward again.

Ranking of the prices paid in Brazil

Paraná (US$ 2,76 / kg de miel) Paraná (U.S. $ 2.76 per kilogram of honey)

Rio Grande do Sul ( US$ 2,66 / kg) Rio Grande do Sul (U.S. $ 2.66 / kg)

Ceará (2,40 US$ / kg) Ceará (2.40 U.S. $ / kg)

Pais que mas pago la miel de Brasil Countries most payment honey Brazil

Alemania 2,82 dólares Germany $ 2.82 US$ / kg U.S. $ / kg

El Reino Unido 2,59 The United Kingdom 2.59 US$ / kg U.S. $ / kg

the buzz

04-19-2009, 07:36 PM

Hi guys, I'm running low, don't know if I'll make it to July. I produce about 20 tons but my reserves are running out. How much a lb for 2 tons?
thanks, stephen

irwin harlton

05-01-2009, 09:03 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeanne Bowe [mailto:jbowe@cpnaglobal.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 2:18 PM
To: 'CPNA'
Subject: FW: Honey Market Report - from Ron Phipps

Comments on today’s international honey market:

Brazil
The demand on Brazilian honey in Europe has increased. This is due to two factors: 1) the Euro remains strong relative to the US dollar allowing the Europeans to pay higher US dollar prices for Brazilian honey and 2) the lack of honey supply from Argentina. Some areas in the northeast are reporting low yields per hive while other areas are experiencing normal yields.
1) The crop in South of Brazil was smaller than expected due to heavy rains in the three first months of the year. Also in the North of Brazil at the production region, there was rain, not as heavy as in the South but enough rain to make a better resulting yield per hive.
2) The average yield in Brazil is 25 kgs. The yield per hive depends on the region of Brazil. In general, the North and Northeast have better yields due hot temperatures all year long and also due to the use of bees with higher productivity. Even in the South of Brazil which is the colder region and in the North of Paraná province, there are hot temperatures all year long and producers are getting greater productivity. In these regions it is possible to get 50 kgs. of honey per hives.
3) The Brazilian bees are Africanized which protects them against diseases. No problems have been found at all.
4) The demand is strong. European countries are pressing for honey after such a long time waiting for Brazil to come back to the market.
5) Despite the fact that the President of Brazil says that there is no crisis in Brazil, it is not the real situation.
Companies in different sectors are firing employees and the economy is slowing as in other parts of the world. This is a normal reaction to the world crisis. Brazil is a supplier of different products for many different countries, so if there is a recession on the world, Brazil will be hit as well. In spite of the crisis, the Brazilian honey sector has a good advantage. EU demand is getting back to normal.
6) The USA is the main destination of Brazilian honey. Around 55 to 60% of the honey exported has this destination. Only 30% goes to the EU due to the strict rules, and 10-15% is shared between other countries including Japan and the Middle East.

The costs of production in Brazil are higher than in Argentina, China and other countries. The profit is still too short therefore discouraging production. There are producers holding honey and betting the price can rise. We are in the end of Eucalyptus crop and starting the period between crops. The next crop will be only in September when the spring starts in Brazil.
A significant speculative tone has entered the Brazilian honey market with honey being either sold to Europe at high prices or held by producers and exporters anticipating a new surge in prices.

The information above was provided by our esteemed friend in Brazil this week.

Argentina
The situation in Argentina is only a little short of a disaster; this refers not only to the current honey crop, but also to the economic, social and political situation as a whole.
The tail end of Argentina’s honey crop was very poor since the drought, which was the worst in half a century, persisted into March. The crop was 20%-25% smaller than last year’s small crop. That means the total crop was 50,000MT-55,000MT, 13,300MT of which was shipped from January to March 2009. Up to 60% of the reduced total crop is already sold. Each year for the past 3 to 4 years, Argentina’s honey crop has been reduced and the number of bee colonies has fallen. Most of Argentina’s honey crop is exported to Europe (Germany, France, Italy and England) and only a small amount is sold to the U.S.A.

The crop is mostly dark with very little white honey available. There is no clover since clover is a shallow rooted plant that could not withstand the extreme drought of 2008/2009. The best quality white honey available is 34MM from the deeper rooted and more drought resistant clover and thistle plants.

The decline in Argentina’s excellent clover honey is directly linked to decrees to restrict the export of cattle, beef and dairy products. Fields of clover and alfalfa that once supported the cattle and dairy industries in Argentina have been converted to soybean production. Not only cattle, but also Argentina’s traditional large production of wheat has declined 50%.

As Argentine honey friends have aptly put it, “Even at what were seen as ‘dream prices’ honey production declines.” Contracts from 2007/2008 for Argentine white honey that were not shipped and were to be fulfilled from the 2008/2009 crop were re-negotiated for mixes generally 25% white 34MM and 75% ELA. The overall situation in Argentina’s economic condition and the global economic crisis suggests Argentina will continue to be an important cause of the global shortage of white honey.

Vietnam
The Vietnamese rubber honey crop is nearing its conclusion. Since this is Vietnam’s largest floral source for honey, demand is strong and prices are firming weekly.

Vietnam’s honey crop is short by 30% compared to last year totals at this time. The greatest difficulty has been weather. At beginning of the crop, there was a long cold period that was immediately followed by continuous rain which has produced a yield per hive of only 20kgs or 44 lbs. There is now a secondary crop of Acacia and Lychee honey coming in; however the supply is small and the demands, especially from the US, are strong.

Monitoring Program
We are very pleased to announce that we heard from Vietnam today that the Vietnamese Ministry of Agriculture has officially issued a circular about a monitoring program for the export of Vietnamese honey. This program is designed to help prevent circumvention of Chinese honey through Vietnam.
This important development will help preserve the good reputation of Vietnam and its legitimate and legal honey industry. It may also serve as an excellent model for other countries which are being used by unscrupulous exporters, importers and packers to collude and commit customs fraud and violate international law in order to avoid the high antidumping duties on Chinese honey.

With the help of leaders of Congress and the State Department, our colleagues Barbara Sheehan and James Phipps held meetings in Vietnam a month ago with officials from the U.S.A. Embassy in Hanoi and then the Vietnamese Ministry of Agriculture, including its Vice-Minister.

The development of a monitoring program reflects the pro-active cooperation between the two countries to establish exchange of scientific data and strict control of honey exports. This is a very positive development which has been realized through the help of the leaders of the Vietnamese Beekeepers’ Association and our colleagues Barbara Sheehan and James Phipps. We believe this is a vital step in bringing stability and fairness to the American honey market.

Canada
The 2008 Canadian crop was short and heavy supplies are exhausted.

U.S.A.
The protracted drought conditions in California threaten both the orange and sage crops. Yields are very low. Florida’s honey crop has started out with excellent quality orange honey. But the crop as a whole is short. With the absence of Argentine white honey, no less clover honey, the prices for U.S. clover have risen recently to $1.50/lb.-$1.55/lb.

The U.S.A. remains a two tiered market as very cheap honey widely believed to be Chinese honey is transshipped from third countries which do not produce the quantities or types of honey exported to the U.S.A. market.
An interesting article, which is attached, appeared in the press recently regarding Chinese products that enter the U.S.A. fraudulently. The key point is that the U.S. authorities are holding responsible not merely the distributors but also those who collude to purchase fraudulently entered merchandise. The U.S.A. honey industry, as a whole, is hopeful U.S. Customs will be successful in their attempts to stop circumvention.
For those who blithely dismiss the vulnerability of who purchase fraudulently entered goods, it is worth noting the following quote a The New York Times article :

“Mr. Hynes said the investigation into the counterfeit ring was continuing and would not be limited to the distributors. He said his office had seized business ledgers kept at the warehouse and warned that those who purchased the counterfeit goods there would not escape scrutiny.

“This time we have books and records,” he said. “The people who have been dealing with this crowd are going to be at risk as well.”

For those who dismiss circumvention as a continuing problem, it may be relevant to note that in January, 2009, 1,270,484 pounds of honey was entered at $0.37/lb. and 550,431 pounds at $0.516/lb. Similar distortions are found for undervalued honey from several nations that lack both history and conditions for producing the quantities and types of honey exported to the U.S.A. at prices dramatically below market. These facts are widely known throughout the industry. As the song says, “The beat goes on.”

Europe
The New York Times, April 27, 2009, Group Sounds Alarm on European Bee Industry, reported as follows:
“Europe’s beekeeping industry could be wiped out in less than a decade as bees fall victim to disease, insecticides and intensive farming", the international beekeeping body Apimondia said on Monday.
“With this level of mortality, European beekeepers can only survive another 8 to 10 years,” Gilles Ratia, the president of Apimondia, told Reuters.
“We have had big problems in southwest France for many years,” he said, but the problem had extended to Italy and Germany.
Last year, about 30 percent of Europe’s 13.6 million hives died, according to Apimondia figures. Losses reached 50 percent in Slovenia and as high as 80 percent in southwest Germany.

….Apimondia’s scientific coordinator, Gerald Arnold, cites two main factors responsible for weakening bee colonies: insecticides and the parasitic mite Varroa. Once weakened, Mr. Arnold said, the hives were then wiped out by other diseases.”
These are long term tendencies that underlie both: 1) the European demand for South American honey and 2) the real possibility that we are entering a period of an international shortage of honey and a sharp inflation of honey prices.

Conclusion
While there is clearly the possibility of an international shortage of white and darker honeys along with rising prices, consumption has stayed strong despite the global economic and financial crisis. This is due to the fact that honey is a healthy and traditional food whose annual per capita costs are modest. People can cancel or postpone purchase of luxury goods, but we do not have the capacity to restrain from eating. Demand for honey, therefore, is very likely to exceed supply.

CPNA International, Ltd.
100 Jericho Quadrangle, Suite 228
Jericho, New York 11753
Tel: (516) 935-3880
Fax: (516) 935-3959
e-mail: info@cpnaglobal.com

OK who's paying 1.50 delivered?............ ANY COMMENTS
A US packer I talked to a couple of months ago called Ron's reports overly optimistic on the price going up.He was stuck at 1.43 for 20mm or better

JohnK and Sheri

05-05-2009, 07:18 AM

Who's paying $1.50? I saw that figure and wondered the same thing. I think it might be someone selling to a small packer in small drum numbers. None of the big packers were there yet when we did the calling around thing.

BUT, the price will definitely go up now as we just sold a couple loads at $1.46.:D w/ no drum exchange. They send back junk anyway.
Plan is to hold out for $1.50+ on the rest of it.
We are still getting calls from some big packers looking for white honey, quoting $1.40-$1.45.
Good luck to us all.
Sheri

wildbranch2007

05-06-2009, 02:55 PM

Penn. packer paying 1.55 for light not necessarily white honey in barrels, two friends are delivering tomorrow. Too bad I don't have any left. same packer was paying .95 last year

mike

JohnK and Sheri

05-06-2009, 03:15 PM

Penn. packer paying 1.55 for light not necessarily white honey in barrels, mike
Told ya so! Y'all can thank us, lol.
That price was at the packer's dock?
I am assuming this is the same packer that had a tantrum only a couple months ago about high priced honey and said they'd never pay $1.50 . Hmmmm, the pendulum do swing. Maybe we'll give her a call, or maybe wait til it goes up another $.20 or so. For all the talk of a severe worldwide shortage, there hasn't been that big of a move in prices. There has been talk of $2.00 white honey, anyone think it'll ever get there?
Sheri

The Honey Householder

05-06-2009, 04:11 PM

I sold my last 11 barrel back on 3-24-09 for $1.55 a lb. Last Aug I was getting $1.70 a lb. from my small packers. Those that buy from me this year, I'll give you a heads up. The first of the crop off will start higher then last year. My cost is up 15% this year so the price should go up the same 15%. Looking forward into next years raise in bee price, I should raise my price 30%.:lookout:

Any takers!!!!:applause:

Ron

JohnK and Sheri

05-06-2009, 04:19 PM

Ron, we sell small lots for more than $1.50 also. I'm talking semi loads, on the open market, not contracted, 65-67 drums. But yeah, keep us posted.
30% increase? From $1.50? I'm all for that.:)
Sheri

irwin harlton

05-08-2009, 04:31 PM

http://www.skamberg.com/

Honey Update:

April 2009

Drought seems to be the major factor in an ongoing struggle to increase
world raw honey supply. Severe droughts in South America and China
dramatically reduced their last honey crops, and we are starting off the
2009 honey crop in the U.S. with drought issues in California, reducing
their crop projections. The orange blossom honey crop is very poor.

A good honey crop in India helped to stabilize prices somewhat, but the
heavy demand for all raw honey on the world market has kept prices strong.
World demand for honey remains strong, especially for industrial type honey.
Even the world wide economic crisis has not yet weakened demand. Many honey
producers throughout the world are holding honey off the market for better
prices. U.S consumption is still strong as we continue to consume over
twice as much honey as we produce in this country

Europe continues to buy aggressively, and the U.S. dollar is again weakening
against other world currencies, making it more difficult for U.S. Packers to
compete for this honey.

Unfortunately, the only favorably priced honey in the market seems to be of
Chinese origin, either sold as Chinese honey or as a "packer's blend", or
circumvented through a 3rd country to avoid duties or hide adulteration.
With contamination and adulteration issues still prevalent with Chinese
honey, U.S. regulatory agencies are trying to crack down on mislabeled or
transshipped Chinese honey.

While there are still reports of Colony Collapse Disorder, it has not been a
major factor in raw honey pricing. Beekeepers still bear the brunt of the
expense to rebuild their hives, but these costs can only be passed on to
packers if world prices remain strong.

The projection for pricing through the rest of 2009 and into 2010 is that
prices will remain strong, but may be more stable than last year.

Prices going back up in Argentina...http://www.apitrack.com/noticia/aaacotizacionmiel_es_open.htm

irwin harlton

05-13-2009, 06:31 AM

1.80/lb............... Mid US honey hotline 783 658 4193

cannot be a whole lot left in Canada but I know of some

Birds&Bees

05-13-2009, 09:24 AM

the hotline # is 763 658 4193

lupester

05-13-2009, 10:09 AM

I find you commerical honey producers conversation very interesting. Here is an article that sums up the world drought, food production. Since you are in the food production business what do you think of this article? I have only been keeping bees for a year.

Catastrophic Fall in 2009 Global Food Production
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=DEC20090210&articleId=12252

irwin harlton

05-20-2009, 11:46 AM

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/schmidt/2009/0519.html

Honey is in short supply , talking to the buyer of four loads, which he paid 1.80/lb canadian for, drums returnted ,he said " BEEKEEPERS WERE VERY RELUCTANT TO SELL, THE MOOD WAS THE PRICE WILL GO HIGHER"............not a whole lot of good white honey left in Canada, but there is some

Noticed the price of crude oil slowly creeping up with the Canadian dollar in tow......... inflation ?

suttonbeeman

05-22-2009, 06:04 AM

Sheri,
I am just wondering if the packer in Pa you were talking about has Gold inits name?

JohnK and Sheri

06-03-2009, 07:18 AM

Yeah, Rick, that's the one.
Looks like the market is softening a bit. Packers we called offering $1.38 for white, $1.33/4 ELA.
Sheri

suttonbeeman

06-03-2009, 08:57 AM

Sheri.

I had a great relationship with the gentlemen who use to run the company. I did me a huge favor about 12 years ago when I didnt have a crop, honey was in short supply and I had a contract I HAD to fulfill. He let me have a load at a penny above what he paid and even delivered it to me for .85/mile. I will never be able to thank him enough. His sister who now runs the company is a horse of a differant color. I know of one case where she purchased a load and would pick it up later. When price went down she tried to buy for less.....bet she would never offered to pay more if price went up!!! He brother was a man of his word and a class act....I dont think of her in those same terms. The last time I talked to her about two years ago she was complaining that honey was too high (at that time .95) I told her if she got out of her little air conditioned office and worked for a change like we do she would think $2 was a bargin. Needless to say I dont think she appreciated my comment!

The Honey Householder

06-03-2009, 11:59 AM

Hay Rick,
The packer your talking about low balled me on a load last year when they really need it. They called back a day later trying to get the load and I had already sold it. :doh:There lost is my gain. I don't play games.

irwin harlton

06-03-2009, 06:52 PM

So deflation is occurring in the US honey market.................. me thinks the packers would like us producers to believe that while a world shortage is growing

We still have the cheap Chinese factor plying the market for those packers who prefer this type of honey......... this market has had and is in tremendous growth, one US- Chinese packer has expanded from one to three packing plants .Current offers of Chinese white honey $1500/ton
plus container and freight.......... and not all this Chinese honey is contaminated or adulterated, but you take your chances on buying it even if you were lucky once before ,odds are you will get not what you want

Then there's the Billion dollar lawsuit against the US gov't and the insurance companies that let in all the past cheap chinese honey without duties and I won't even bring up the transshipped Chinese honey from India, Russia, you name the country.
No , there is no deflation in the US honey market, only low offers based on packer perception and deceit and cheap competition with Chinese honey

Tom G. Laury

06-03-2009, 07:15 PM

Irwin, it seems that at least right now, in the short run, most everything is deflating in price. The Chinese got in and made their money while the making was good. Now that they have asserted their product in the market it's going to be very difficult to eliminate them. Looking ahead I would say that they will be more competitive than we have seen yet.

I really appreciate all your informative posts and producers outlook! Thank You!

irwin harlton

06-05-2009, 04:45 PM

acacia honey: it is comeing at first, so the price is not stable.
now the price is very high.
shandong wei factory offer:fob china port usd2600/mt
daliang ma factory offer:fob china port usd3000/mt

above is taken from a email
dickering with a Chinese broker,seller,.......... just to see what prices ,production is

Originally this person quoted me $1500/MT for white.......... may have been " a come on" PRICE

Tom G. Laury

06-05-2009, 05:05 PM

Thanks again! So is that then $1.30 & $1.50 per pound?

FOB China, I have no idea what a container costs to ship but that looks a strong price.

Tom G. Laury

06-05-2009, 06:42 PM

Or is Metric ton 2200. I'm dumb about this.

irwin harlton

06-05-2009, 08:24 PM

$2600/mt=$1.18/LB

3000/MT= 1.36/LB PLUS CONTAINER AND FREIGHT

Freight 1.to winnipeg:2825usd
2.to souris manitoba:3550usd .......... about 12cents/lb freight

These Chinese prices are comparable to the latest prices I have seen on NHB site for dec/08, which is 1.56

Tom G. Laury

06-05-2009, 09:28 PM

" PLUS CONTAINERS " Does the buyer pay a drum fee? If so roughly how much?

irwin harlton

06-06-2009, 07:49 AM

come in various sizes , usually 20FT or 40FT, holding 20 or 40 mt, these are bought, rented or included in the freight ,drums are sometimes double stacked in a 20ft, easily transported by rail or truck

irwin harlton

06-07-2009, 09:53 AM

it is on the NHB site http://www.honey.com/honeyindustry/statistics.asp

Click on Total Averages from Four Countries (2004-2008) and Average Import Price of Honey (2006-2008)

The stats are 4 months behind, this I can somewhat understand, but it is 1/4 of a year!!!!

The cheapest place in the world to buy honey now appears to be USA ( if some generous packer can fool some hardup producer)

In Total Average Bulk Prices of Honey Imported from Four Countries, note the cheap chinese prices to dec08 then the december price.

The world shortage me thinks is growing, could it be possible the NHB is not serving the producers but only the importers and the packers, I would bet alot that this is the case

suttonbeeman

06-07-2009, 08:14 PM

One industry group(APH) gripped, groweled and played with lawyers until the honey board changed from a board with producer input to no producer input. I will say it wasnt perfect, made alot of changes, got better but the importers and packers got tired of it so now we have no input. At the last minute APH (ie Richard Adee) realized what was going to happen but too late. Mr ADEE pretty much called all the shots and In my opinion wasnt always honest with his members. Now with the importer/packer board and some of those on the board that was involved with the recent Seattle newspaper articles and chinese honey sounds like we have the fox guarding the henhouse!

Tom G. Laury

06-07-2009, 09:17 PM

Seemed like all the producer input was money
All the benefit was packer.
My understanding is that AHP is trying to form an entity to promote DOMESTIC honey.

suttonbeeman

06-09-2009, 07:48 AM

True Tom...but at least we had some input. Dont think the penny isnt taken into consideration now when a producer gets a offer! I was at the Denver meeting in Aug 1986 wen the honey board was formed. We all had the idea it was going to promote OUR honey....(US honey) The USDA rep at the meeting informed us it HAD to promote all honey and not US. Unfair to the other countries since all honey had to pay(bill was written that way and couldnt be changed) I thought Binford Weaver was going to blow a fuse over all this and it wasnt the way he envisioned it! We were all mad but thats politics...they always look out for everyone else. I think MR Adee being against the board is the math ( 50,000 hives 100 lbs/hive @.01/lb = 50,000 dollars/yr his cost of a board!) The thing that disturbes me is while I was on the ABF board was some things he said and told his members were outright not true! I believe he looks out for RIchard and NOT the industry as a whole....but I guess if I had 50K hives I might too althought I hope I wouldnt. But we desperately need a board to for many reasons from educating the public to research. Alot of good has came from the board. If we hadnt increased the demand for honey we would have still have had imports and less dollars for ours. I hope we do get a US board but I dont think it will happen...too much politics in DC and who is going to do it? .....honey has been sold as a commodity too long...HONEY is not HONEY! There is a big differance....see next post!

suttonbeeman

06-09-2009, 07:59 AM

To increase price we must sell honey like fine wine......differant floral source. People are fast becoming aware of the differance between "store brand" honey and local honey! Now to accomplish this here ae a couple of problems and if anyone has any suggestions please post them! Sourwood honey is currantly being sold throughtout the southeast that is not sourwood....deliberately mislabeled. One packer in North east Tennessee is selling quarts case of 12 clover delivered to KY for $67.00 for clover and 69.00 for sourwood. It the same honey!!! We as a industry need to come up with some standards for floral source honey(us board or currant board(but remember fox is guarding the hen house now). Sourwood honey is easy to identify due the the shape of the pollen in it. If you do the math and ex white honey is 1.50 producers dock a quart has about 4.50 plus jar(.50). so cost is 5.00 plus delivery and bottling overhead(usually about .10/lb) So cost delivered to Ky is about 5.50/qt or 5.60 qt. Where is the profit? Or what is in the JAR???????????? Lets all get the honey standard in our state for starters! Rick

Ian

06-09-2009, 01:04 PM

I hear what your saying, definitely would be nice to have a standard measure on the honey sold on the shelves. But the way I see it, most honey sold today on the self isnt labeled by floral, but rather colour. Honey being collected from every part of the planet ,a nd sold as it comes in. Nothing wrong with that, as long as the honey isnt adulterated. Trade is trade, and we all have to realize everyone benefits in equal trade.

Bottom line, the consumers decide how the honey is sold, and right now they are demanding quality, abundance and price. Thats what we are giving them, thats what they get. Until the mass consumer habits change, this is how honey will be sold.

I realize the logistics around providing shelf space, and supplying the consumer with discount foods, but I tell you, if the consumer lean towards different buying habits, the retail suppliers will accommodate them. You can see it with organics right now, you can see it with local produced food right now. You see it with healthy living trends.
We will see it with the way our honey is produced, packed and sold also. But in time, and after we as an industry invest more time into educating the public.

You can beat the mule with a stick, or use the stick to lead the mule with a carrot,

The Honey Householder

06-09-2009, 07:35 PM

But in time, and after we as an industry invest more time into educating the public.

I sell 75% of my honey to other small beekeeper that do the pubic educating. Most of their sale have increased by 200% in the past two years. I find this is a better way then paying out the penny and I'm selling my honey for more too.

John Smith

06-10-2009, 07:34 PM

Asking the fox to come up with a solution will work well,............... for the fox!

When the consumer can no longer trust his government nor his supermarket to police his food chain, that consumer will become his own policeman.

The rapid increase in beekeepers selling direct to their public is the best solution. The fox misses out there altogether. The Poor Fox. If that beekeeper proves that he cannot be trusted, his market will fail. But generally, beekeepers don’t have the volume, the processing facilities nor the motivation to invest in a lot of cheating. His simplest methods of producing and distributing are quite acceptable to the public in most cases. He is also the best positioned of all vendors to promote the product, as he knows it like they never will.

Local producer-packers may never replace the supermarket, but we can certainly revive and retrieve our industry from oblivion by moving away (however temporarily) from the idea that we are only interested in bulk sales.

Produce less and sell more direct. That action itself can change the world of honey! It can change your own world dramatically too.

Honey is the perfect product to have. It qualifies very high as a monetary commodity, it qualifies as a medicine and it is a time honoured food, yet it is simple and fundamental to produce and market. If we as beekeepers throw our weight behind that move, I can assure you the rest of the foxes will soon align themselves accordingly. They have one major disadvantage............. they don’t have any bees and honey! They can only survive a limited time selling substitutes and look-alikes.

Question: What are the three worst value commodities in the market place right now?
Answer: Money, medicine and food.

Honey is all of the above, and science will never replace it with something better.

Make no mistake about it, however. The market is waking up (slowly?) to substitutes and frauds. This is partly owing to the total predominance of same, but also to the aging of the baby boomers. The older one gets the more likely it is that he/she will wake up to reality!

There is far more money to be made retailing honey than there is in producing it, certainly in the short term.

Cheers,

JohnS

jjgbee

06-12-2009, 06:51 PM

I was recently in Florida and bought some real Tupelo. WOW it was great. all the Tupelo that I have tasted, mainly from health food shops was NOT Tupelo. I was amazed that it was so thick and produced in a high humidity region. For the rest of my trip, I ate the Tupelo and let my Black Sage sit in the cupboard. On the subject of consumers, most of my customers are oriental. They demand GOOD honey. The biggest problem we have with American consumers is that they get one of those restraunt packsof honey, of which the best are poor and worst are not fit for bee feed, and they will never want honey again. For 30 years now, I have supplied most of the restraunts in town with #1 black sage honey in 6# pour jugs. I supply all the bears they need. This way, people can learn what real honey should taste like. I make money while beating the price of the restraunt packs. I also write off a few thousand per year and call it advertising.

irwin harlton

06-25-2009, 10:36 PM

Canadian honey selling to Canadian packers within the last 6 weeks for 1,75 and 1.80/lb
This is in US Dollars 1.51 AND 1.56.... there are no USA packers paying this price , guess the world shortage of honey is being crushed by the deflation and recession in the USA and world supply and demand do not enter the picture . It appears the cheapest place to buy honey is from the USA producer

The Honey Householder

07-02-2009, 06:27 AM

I will have to start extracting early this year because of the big honey shortage. I have already sold 25 barrels at $1.85 lb and the orders are still coming in. How long will this shortage last? :scratch:

Having problems finding good barrel this year. I think last years high scrap price did away with a lot of barrels.

2009 honey crop is looking good and hope the price stay up too.

irwin harlton

07-10-2009, 12:11 PM

Odem international is currently offering 1.70 Canadian funds.Buyer is quoted as saying price will probabby rise to 1.80 can . come August. There is not much honey moving at 1,70 and there is not alot left to move

At current exchange rates and last honey prices I heard june 18 on the honey hot line, some packer is paying her a premium.............. prices were 1.45-1.50 on the honey hot line Packer probably figures it is best to not let US producers know what 's going on..... pay more for foreign honey and buy the home stuff cheaper

jean-marc

07-11-2009, 05:25 PM

Yes , but everybody knows that Canada produces a premium product, hence the premium price to it's producers.

Jean-Marc

Ian

07-16-2009, 04:56 PM

Thanks to all those canola producers!! :)

jean-marc

07-18-2009, 09:51 AM

Sure, they too deserve a pat on the back.

Jean-Marc

irwin harlton

07-22-2009, 05:59 PM

Jean-Marc said

"Yes , but everybody knows that Canada produces a premium product, hence the premium price to i.t's producers"

I whole heartly agree with you, but comparing US and recent Canadian prices, I think there is more than a recession and a Canadian 90 cent dollar in play.No doubt the new crop offerings will be at the present low prices,even with the shortage of honey.Same old story, packers will buy all they can before prices are reflected by the shortage.......... maybe the shortage is not as big as one thinks

John Smith

07-22-2009, 07:30 PM

Taken over any ten year period in history, there has always been a shortage. It was the shortage of honey that prompted mankind to grow grapes to make his alcohol with. It was the shortage of honey that prompted us to develop glucose made from starch. Now honey has 1 percent of the sweeteners market, and you reckon there is a glut?

Once a few more people have read the book, The Honey Revolution, you can dismiss the term 'glut' from your mind forever. If we can secure 2% of the sweeteners market, we will have doubled the demand.

All talk of plenty in the honey world is a buyers spin. Why is it that one can 'always' sell it? The only thing that keeps anyone from buying unrestricted amounts of it is the availability of finance. How long since you read about honey being dumped at sea?

Mr. S. Kamberg has spoken too. http://www.skamberg.com/

Cheers,
JohnS

irwin harlton

07-30-2009, 03:39 PM

HONEY MARKET REPORT
(Colony Collapse Disorder, Circumvention, & Crops)
July 27, 2009
Ron Phipps

Overall Comments
As this report is being written, the North American honey market awaits clarification of production of the: 1) important white clover and sunflower crops in South and North Dakota and 2) Canada’s honey crop. Given the sparsity of white honey from the traditional major honey exporting countries, with China excluded due to prohibitive antidumping duties imposed by the U.S. Department of Commerce on Chinese honey, the success or failure of the honey crops in the northern honey producing areas of North America will have a major impact upon the price tendencies and availability of honey, especially white honey.

The American honey market is witnessing the converging influence of two major concerns: 1) growing long-term concerns regarding the viability of the global honey bee population, and 2) the emergence of a two-tiered honey market in America. Both of these concerns have generated an unusual degree of interest among beekeepers and packers, the media, scientists, the U.S. Congress and the governmental agencies responsible to enforce the rule of law in America’s international trade relations.

Colony Collapse Disorder (C.C.D.)
In recent months, there has been excellent media coverage of the continuing problems with the health of the world’s pollinators. One of the best descriptions of Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) was broadcast on National Public Television (PBS—Nature; pbs.org) on July 26, 2009. http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/silence-of-the-bees/video-full-episode/251/

This program described the nature of the problems, current research regarding causes and cures and the potential impact upon agriculture. There are approximately 100 crops that require pollination through insects. These crops include the major fruits, nuts and vegetables required for a healthy, anti-oxidant rich and balanced human diet. As both the scale of agriculture and the suburbanization of society have increased, natural pollination has declined greatly. Now approximately 1/3 of American agricultural production depends upon the honey bee to pollinate crops.

There appears to be a confluence of variables which are exacerbating the bees’ vulnerability to disease, including stress from the highly migratory practices of modern beekeeping, the mono-diet of bees under large scale agriculture, pesticides and climatic stresses. Most research scientists are coming to view the phenomena of bees disappearing from their hives to be a cumulative consequence of this confluence of factors. Concern for the world’s honey bees has deepened as increased awareness of the vital importance of bees, not just to the honey industry, but to agriculture more generally, has grown.

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has established a multi-disciplinary team to investigate the cause and cures of colony collapse disorder. This illustrates the importance of the issue beyond the beekeeping community, since ¾ of the plants on the earth require pollination.

The Two-Tiered Market
Concurrent with stresses on bee colonies, we witness the emergence and entrenchment in the U.S.A. of a two-tiered honey market. This two-tiered price structure has sprung up in inverse relationship to growing quality and duty restrictions upon imports of Chinese honey. The price gaps inherent in the two-tiered market have become untenable for many honey packers.

There has rarely, if ever, been such growing unity among all levels of the American honey industry and from all regions of the country in favor of ending the circumvention of Chinese honey through various forms of non-dutiable “blends” and through illegal transshipments of Chinese honey through third countries. American beekeepers, packers, some importers, various exporters and governments are coalescing in unprecedented unity to stop the circumvention of anti-dumping duties and the illicit trade in honey that have created the two-tiered market that threatens the American honey industry. The U.S. Federal Government agencies responsible to enacting and enforcing U.S. antidumping law have been increasingly active and arrests for criminal trade in illicit honey imports have occurred.

Some governments have recently taken action. The State of Florida has accepted, as of July, 2009, a Standard of Identity for honey which may contribute to preventing adulteration of honey and the creation “blends” designed to circumvent antidumping duties. The Vietnamese Government instituted a Monitoring Program in May, 2009, one of whose aims is to preserve the integrity and reputation of Vietnam by prohibiting transshipment of Chinese honey. Even elements of the Chinese honey industry and government realize that this illicit circumvention is harmful to China’s reputation.

The American Honey Producers Association, The National Honey Packers and Dealers Association, The Committee for the Promotion of Honey and Health and many major packers have taken strong measures. Honey companies throughout the U.S.A. are contacting Congress and the media to urge more comprehensive and decisive action to prevent circumvention. Some lawyers have suggested Congressional Hearings to be held on these blatant and repeated acts to violate international trade law and circumvent the force of U.S. antidumping rulings. Also, some have suggested that the mass media and the appropriate trade journals need to be informed so that the collusion and criminality that underlie the gross price disparities that render fair competition impossible and threaten the survival of honest companies can be understood.

The aberrational patterns of honey imports, which appear month by month, are relatively transparent. Countries that produce minimal amounts of honey, according to official communications from their government and other sources, are exporting 10 times their production. Countries that shipped virtually no honey to the world a decade ago are currently shipping to the U.S. at a rate equivalent to 125 million pounds per year. Countries with tropical climates that produce 80%-90% dark honey, are shipping huge quantities of white honey. There are reports that Chinese honey has been illegally blended in third countries prior to export to the U.S.A.

The American honey industry is not the only industry threatened by Chinese honey. The Indian press reported in 2003 that Chinese honey was being smuggled through Nepal, that Nepal was a net importer of honey, not an exporter, and that no sanitary checks were being conducted on the honey imported into India. In 2005, Indian farmers feared “that cheaper Chinese honey imports have captured the wholesale market, leading to a glut” (Nov. 13, 2005, Thiruvananthapuram). Indeed, India, despite a rather intense trade relationship with China, has more antidumping suits against Chinese products than does the U.S.A.

Crops

United States
The size and quality of North American crops remains hard to assess, as this report is being written in late July. Weather problems and volatility nationally have been inconsistent and pronounced. California and Texas have suffered extreme and persistent drought, reducing normally substantial crops of sage, orange and buckwheat honey in California and tallow honey in Texas. Florida and the southwest, like the northeast, have suffered excessive rain, which harms the orange, tupelo and gallberry honey crops.

The Dakotas had ample moisture and healthy bees going into the early summer. But cool weather that saw temperatures fall to 49° in June delayed extraction and diminished prospects for a bumper clover crop. Beekeepers report many problems with bees as colonies are in some cases failing to build and in other cases collapsing. Everything is late and extraction in the Midwest, that would have normally begun in the first half of July, has not begun as August approaches. It will take ideal weather, an accelerated production period and re-invigorated bees to produce the bumper white clover crop that was anticipated when the Dakotas entered the honey production season with ample moisture.

Canada
Canada reports the same delay in the crop and that temperatures are very cold all across Canada as July ends. The prime honey production period in Canadian prairie provinces has been hurt by a late Spring and very cold mid-summer. Some agricultural experts predict a crop of only 30-40 million pounds unless weather improves. Ontario has been too wet and cold. The Jet Stream has played havoc producing autumn weather in summer.

Argentina
Argentina is between crops and, contrary to some rumors, the earlier assessment that Argentina’s honey crop was small and dark is correct. If there is some honey in beekeepers hands, that honey is not being released since Argentine beekeepers anticipate a firming market as consumption in the Northern Hemisphere increases in September through December.

Argentine exporters, like Brazilian exporters, are concerned that the huge bailout of the American financial system and the gigantic cumulative national debt burdening the U.S. economy will weaken the U.S. Dollar and cause commodity prices in general, and honey prices in particular, to rise.

Brazil
The severe floods of northeast Brazil have subsided and rainfall is normal. Honey is flowing again, and production presently is of dark and aromatic honey. Prices have shifted modestly as production has shifted from white grades to light amber and amber grades.

Vietnam
The total Vietnamese honey crop was about 20,000MT about 65% of which has been exported. Some higher quality and higher priced mono-flora honey may still come into the market in September if rains subside.

Vietnam has worked hard to improve quality and increase the level of beekeepers’ professional expertise. In May, several Vietnamese scientists from agricultural universities visited the bee lab at the University of California at Davis. The Vietnamese Government issued a formal circular to institute a Monitoring Program whose aims are to: 1) improve and standardize quality and 2) prevent circumvention of Chinese honey through Vietnam. Barbara Sheehan and James Phipps participated in meetings with the Vietnamese Beekeeping Association, the Vietnamese Ministry of Agriculture and the U.S. Embassy in Hanoi to encourage the establishment of this Monitoring Program. Officials of both governments and the honey industries of both countries welcome this important step to ensure fair and legal trade.

Conclusion
Circumvention in the American honey market has become the most decisive factor in determining prices of honey, who dominates and who survives or fails among producers, packers, importers and exporters. Correspondingly and consequently, the opposition to the collusion underlying circumvention has become unprecedentedly broad and deep. This problem has to be solved if the positive potentials for the honey industry are to be realized.
pps report

irwin harlton

07-31-2009, 11:37 AM

The chances now of a normal or big honey crop in canada and the US are next to nil....... just my opinion.............. the next question how will and how much will this influence the price
With the market firmly controlled by 5-6 major buyers who together hate competition on prices and want market share filled by low priced circumvented chinese honey, who's going to be the first packer to offer a good REALISTIC price?

The Honey Householder

07-31-2009, 06:15 PM

First 10 ton pulled, packed, and sold. Price is up from last year by $.15. The crop is late or going to be short by a 1/3. I can't keep honey around. Maybe I'm selling it to cheap. What is raw honey in the bucket selling for.

John Smith

08-02-2009, 10:39 PM

Who will pay bigger prices? The public will! Especially in Florida!

I don't know how the middle men are going to fare. They know that putting up prices will not generate more honey in the short term, so yes, they are running a closed shop, albeit in an unofficial way. It does appear that they are very unwilling to break ranks with the brotherhood, especially as there are so few of them.

I am promoting the small time packers: The beekeepers who sell at markets: The jam makers who work the markets but want to add honey to their line. These are the people who can and will pay better prices.

Obviously the survivors in the big packer class will eventually come to the party. They always have. Honey would still be 5 cents per pound if they hadn't have done so in the past. But it sure looks like it will only be after much kicking and screaming and delaying the matter.

Their biggest trouble is the rapid and savage rate of increase. If you double the price of the honey, you halve the amount any one enterprise can buy in. Bankers are not very prone to encourage honey stockpiling. This is their downfall. They figure it should be produced on demand like so many other things are.

The last big rise (2003?) was because they all had supermarket contracts that they were obliged to fill ------------- at any cost. This hurt many of them, quite seriously. They may not have fully recovered yet. For sure, they would have been much more wary when entering into such contracts again.

The banking crisis could not have been resolved until after the shock of loosing a few banks. Maybe only the loss of a major honey packer will break the deadlock. How much credit are you allowing any one of them to have at your expense? Some beekeepers may go down with them, if it happens. It is a cruel world.

Too many eggs in one basket was always considered a risk. The broader your market the safer you are. Sorry 'bout that. It was so nice to just put your honey on the truck and wave good bye.

I anticipate honey following gold, with a daily fix on prices, and no delivery on credit. Money for honey or no sale. It is the only way to protect each party from the regrets and losses of rapidly gyrating prices.

The bigger the concern the more tightly they manage their cash flow. My town council even lost a slug of money in the stock market......... yes, they cannot help themselves but try to glean every cent they can out of their cash flow. I don't know how the big honey consortiums are managed, but the bigger the enterprise, the bigger the problems.

Anyway, the real question is: What Honey?

Cheers,

JohnS

irwin harlton

08-03-2009, 12:00 PM

from http://www.apitrack.com/index_en_open.htm

2009-07-30

MEXICO- HONEY PRICE INCREASE
Due to the climate factor in honey production has dropped considerably, not only in Mexico but worldwide, evidenced by the fact that honey prices have risen, from 22 pesos (US$ 1.66) last year at 38 pesos (US$ 2.86) today, so it is necessary to produce more honey as Europe and Argentina are in great demand. Marco Antonio Muñoz, president of the National Association of queen breeders, reported that the honey is exported to Europe, comes through Hamburg and Mexican honey is a basis for the formulas of commercial honey is sold in Europe, as the honey that is sold there is a blend of different honeys from various parts of the world.

Ian

08-04-2009, 05:12 PM

>>It was so nice to just put your honey on the truck and wave good bye.

Thats the basis of most all agriculture. Its a system that works very well and on a world wide basis. It employs hundreds of millions of people, and allows food to flow all over the world in a consistent basis.

For a fellow like me to start marketing most all my production would maximize my labour and capital resources, which greatly increases my risk.

Value added is fine and dandy, small time processors is also great, but you cant simply ignore the consumer masses and our current system of production, processing, and distributions networks,

John Smith

08-04-2009, 07:35 PM

Very true, Ian, but how do you go when they don't want to reward you for your product?

Can large operators alone hold the industry together? Can you guys pollinate all the small time vegetable growers?

Any culture that does not cater for new blood, younger entrants and small operators has lost its creative potential. Like a dying tree, it will fail eventually.

If maxi sized operators were keeping up with the demand, they wouldn't be having to outlaw diluted product in Florida.

Big operations go out of business as surely as little ones thanks to their large turnover. Turnover is a goddess of profitability when she is showing a profit. But when profit creeps over the line and becomes a loss, turnover is then a deadly enemy. Big banks and big insurance companies, big supermarkets and big honey operators can crash spectacularly. Where will the industry be when our current (aging) crop of professional market contributors retire?

In every vocation their is always a small percentage of folk who can rise high and be shining lights. All power be to them. We need them desperately. If it were not for a few top catwalk models hitting the headlines now and then, the rag trade would not be able to coerce enough young talent to keep the industry going. But there still has to be some payola in it for the less talented, otherwise that industry will die.

Unfortunately, the death of the honey industry seems to have been promoted by big business, big pharmacy, big banking and big government for thousands of years. And yes, a gullible public are always keen to embrace cheap substitutes for everything. And all that collectivism has built great towers and conquered the moon............... but the burgeoning (both by count and by body mass) of our population now is forcing us to wonder how much longer we can continue to feed ourselves, especially without the help of the honeybees.

With two thirds of most modern societies now overweight, and at least one third actually obese, the poor spindly legs of the remaining workers that are supporting us must be looking wobbly.

The amount of honey (and all foodstuffs) that never makes it to the statistician's note book in massive. In those times when the little people run out of honey, the number of customers flooding into the remaining vendors is enormous. It is such a powerful wave it is embarrassing even for the system operators. It is the large honey producers that create the statistics and the little producers that create the waves!

All Hail to the upcoming wave of backyarders now arising. The big boys may be the bones of the industry, but the little people are the muscles!

Lets move it and shake it!

Cheers,

JoihnS

Ian

08-05-2009, 06:09 PM

Well, I guess so John, if thats the way you feel about our current model of agriculture, thats your opinion,

I just dont see things so dire

I see a model working very well

And who best tell you this, the consumers. They are supporting this model overwhelmingly.

A few big guys go broke, as you mention,
will be replaced with a few more big guys
backyarders will not and can not fill that tremendous void,

I understand what your saying, I think,

>>Any culture that does not cater for new blood, younger entrants and small operators has lost its creative potential. Like a dying tree, it will fail eventually.

your expecting a coming crash in our current agricultural model,

I m not going to bank on it

>>Ian, but how do you go when they don't want to reward you for your product?

Thats been a part of farming for at least 100 years,
If there is one thing that hasnt changed in farming over these last 100 years, its producers not getting what they need for thier product

Trevor Mansell

08-05-2009, 08:04 PM

John ,
The big players in the Bee Buisnesses in the US make there money on pollination not honey production. Wich is one reason there is a shortage of honey . As far as blended honey in Fl ,its a packer that is bringing it in to make a quick buck . Backyarders are great for public relations , but we will see how many of them stick with it once they find out what it costs in time and money to keep a beehive alive.

jean-marc

08-09-2009, 08:53 AM

So what's the current price of honey paid to producer?

Jean-Marc

Beeslave

08-09-2009, 09:03 AM

Honey hotline has on 6-19: Nebraska $1.38 lbs paid to producer and in Manitoba $1.75 canadian paid to producer(118 drums).

Beeslave

08-09-2009, 09:07 AM

I've been getting $1.65- $1.75 on small lots( less than 5 drums each sale)

The Honey Householder

08-09-2009, 12:45 PM

Raw barrel honey $1.65 under 10 ton
Raw bucket honey $1.75 under 10 ton
Orders are back up. I have 32,000 pounds of bulk honey back up.
I'm a second generation comm. beekeeper and have never had honey orders back up. I've got my work cut out for me this week. If you are one that is needing honey you better buy it before Oct. I try and keep a semi load or two for the next year. This may be the first year I don't. I see the price hiting $2.00 by the holdays, if there is any around.

Ian

08-11-2009, 05:29 PM

>>$1.75 canadian

That sounds about right,

Beeslave

08-13-2009, 02:26 PM

Pure Sweet in WI offering $1.40 for ELA and $1.44 for White.

Trevor Mansell

08-13-2009, 02:36 PM

Melo is offering $1.35 , wich seems alittle low to me .

irwin harlton

08-13-2009, 07:29 PM

Packers will get very little honey at the above prices.2009 honey crop estimates are along ways from being made public but I bet the crop is below average in both Canada and the USA. A Canadian honey broker estimated the Canadian crop at 30 -40 million lbs last month ,down from a normal 60 -70 million lb crop
It will take a packer like Sue to start buying on the open market and the price will rise dramatically. The 5 or 6 major US packers are tied pretty close together and able to keep prices where they want them,where as in Canada, honey has been selling this spring at 1.75-1.80, well above the current offerings of US packers even when you take in account of the Canadian peso
There is a WORLD shortage of honey, there is a greater shortage of white honey and it will be reflected in the price in the coming months

One only has to go to the national honey board site to to see that this rise in the honey price has begun http://www.honey.com/honeyindustry/stats/AvgImpCIF02-06.htm, the packers cannot suppress this info but they are doing one fine job of delaying it..... average price of imported honey is 4 months behind

dgl1948

08-13-2009, 08:43 PM

One of the largest producers in Sask. is reporting his crop is down about 60 per cent He says he has never had a year this bad. He is in the Sask honey belt. We are further South and our first pull was a way down. The second has been a little better but things are slowing down fast. We are not in a rush to sell as we think when the totals come in production is going to be a way down.

Lil Grain of Rice

08-14-2009, 05:09 AM

Hi there, new beek here, nowhere near producing any honey at all :) just wondering when you are talking prices like $1.40-1.75 is that the price per pound?

JohnK and Sheri

08-14-2009, 06:47 AM

Yes that is the price per pound. We are talking generally semi loads of 55 gal drums, about 65 of them, picked up at the producers dock.
Sheri
PS welcome to the forum.

Lil Grain of Rice

08-14-2009, 08:24 AM

Thank you :)

Ian

08-16-2009, 03:57 PM

Argentina is experiencing very dry conditions, delaying many farmers from planting til moisture rolles through

The Honey Householder

08-16-2009, 04:34 PM

I've produced and sold 47,000 pounds in the past 3 week. Sale price $1.65-1.75 for bulk barrel and bucket honey. I'm getting offers on my comb honey for $3.20 lb for comb honey in the super.
I've been in the business a long time and have never moved honey to the small packers before like this. Most of my smaller packer are reporting there sales up a 1/3 in the pass two years. It's always nice to see the little guys making it.
I called two big packers two weeks ago to check on prices and the quotes was 1.39, and the other 1.45 for white honey. Because of the big packers sandbagging, they already losted out on one of my semi loads. The way it looks my crop is going to be 10-12 ton short this year.
At these prices the shortage is OK. There always next year.

Ron Householder

doc25

08-18-2009, 07:36 PM

Anyone know the prices that the Manitoba honey coop is giving? Tier A and B.

Ian

08-19-2009, 05:34 PM

They are pretty tight lipped on new crop honey,

irwin harlton

08-19-2009, 07:46 PM

The gov't advance crop payment program is ,I believe set at 1.00/lb for the 2009 crop year.This is open to all producers and Beemaid partakes in this offering also, ...so the initial payment will be at least1.00/lb and most likely more...........but then again my forecasts have been known to be wrong
Beemaid 1 kilo creamed honey on the store shelf is over $12

Birds&Bees

08-21-2009, 08:22 PM

Costco has Beemaid honey in 2Kg containers for $12.69

Ian

08-22-2009, 01:19 PM

Initial payment of 70 cents, as is the advance as far as I understood,
I would like to expect to see 1.5 - 1.75 $ final payment, but then that all depends on how long the stronge market holds. Who knows, perhaps 2$ isnt too far off our expectations,
looking at Argentina, again entering a very dry season. Certianly not expecting to see the production comming out of there like 4 years ago

irwin harlton

08-23-2009, 07:32 PM

I stand corrected, thankyou Ian, crop advance payment for 2009 honey is.70/lb
Don't know what made me think it was 1.00........... wishfull thinking , maybe, but then again what can you buy for a dollar or for that matter what can you get for 70 cents.
That is approximately half of what the current market prices are at

Looking at BeeMaids $12.69 FOR 1 kilogram ( 2.2 lBS) that works out to $5.768 /LB ...pricey eh! Top quality Canadian honey should command a top price on the store shelf or in the drum Beemaid is a little cheaper over at Wallmart where they are going toe to toe with Billy Bee and the Wallmart brand, which is packed in Toronto on Argentine street

Bud Dingler

08-25-2009, 01:10 PM

Souix members have been told to expect $1.30 for 09 after receiving closer to $1.40 for 08. Go figure.....

It does appear that some areas in Mn and Wiso will pull this stinker of a season out of the crapper in the 9th inning

suttonbeeman

08-25-2009, 08:12 PM

I've never to the life of figured out why anyone would bee a member of sue? You get paid about 10 or 20 percent on delivery then more later and a little more a few months later then finally the balance about a year later(I use to know the setup but its been a while and I dont remember and it may have changed) THIS IS AFTER THEY RETAIN 10% OF YOUR GROSS for 8 or 10 years for their operating capitol!! Figure if you produce 100,000 lbs of honey and the price is 1.30....they will have 130,000 dollars of YOUR money from now own. How much could you make with that capitol or save in interest payments and as is in the above post you usually get paid less. ALso you are losing the interest on all the payments you dont get immediately! Sure you just call them and they bring you drums and pick up your honey....but as hard as bee work is it is easy to make some phone calls....in fact I would broker honey for 1/2 of what you loose being a member of sue....not to mention they have been caught importing chinese honey and some was found with chlomamphenicol (sP) google seattle times article on honey laundering for details! I dont think anyone should get les than 1.40 if you make some calls. THree different beeks all got 1.65 last week from what I was told.

Bud Dingler

08-26-2009, 02:19 PM

I agree about Sue - what a joke. Most of the members are selling honey out their back door, even the board members to supplement their income.

They even deduct for honey that has real flavor like basswood. Seems they want the HFCS tasting honey!

John Smith

08-26-2009, 05:42 PM

We have had something like 80 years of similar experiences here in Australia. First a Co-Op and (after the beekeepers FINALLY recognised what was going on), a Producer Owned Corporation was formed. As with all new endeavours, it performed beautifully for the producers until the founders retired, then it followed the universal pattern. It is still ticking over, but has lost a massive volume of its dedicated supply base.

Yes, we all love that tasteless honey. Why? Because we can use it to soften up all that rough stuff we buy in cheap. Its all about the dollars, not the taste. Supermarkets love one single line of honey. It must all be the same color, the same general flavour and the same watery consistency. They have no staff present to explain to the customer why every sample of honey coming from the hive has different characteristics.

It's all about the system and the people who run it. It is not about the producer nor the customer. They are entirely taken for granted.

The irony of it is, that individuals within these organisations do work hard and put a lot of effort in trying in to make it work, but the net result is still the same. They just go on down the gurgle like all the previous ones did.

I am hoping a new one will emerge here. Like governments, they are only valid in their infancy and youth. As mature entities, they become a liability as no one is ever responsible for anything and losses are covered up to save face, passing the pain back to the producer and the synthetic honey on to the customer.

It appears that beekeepers are like bees and are socializing creatures by nature. It seems no other philosophy will work for us, so I just wait and hope for the new organisation. Time for a 'swarm' to emerge?

Cheers,
JohnS

irwin harlton

08-26-2009, 07:51 PM

Honey hot line ,763 658 4193 august 20 th,

No large crop in the USA mid west,going to be a below average crop with some bright spots
No packer offerings quoted, one small lot less than 10 drums sold for 1.75

Marketing your own honey verses say shipping to Sue....... you only have to get burned once, and you can be a dead duck, a load or two you don't get paid for or the price reduced after the buyer receives it ,
you know all the funny little things that can happen when you sell a load of honey.... then that Sue starts to look pretty good... heard their membership has increased the last few years, taking back past producers who were in the bad books with them
Sue saying their price will be 10cents lower than last year..... could the recession be reducing sales ... suppose to be a world shortage, suppose to be a shortage of white honey, Argentina didn't produce no big crop , nor much white honey ...... me thinks it is only a matter of time and the price will be going up... no big crop in Canada either

jean-marc

08-26-2009, 08:29 PM

I agree with you Irwin on the point of being paid. At the end of the day as a producer you need to get paid. I don't belong to a Co-op , don't really need to. I sell most of my honey locally to other smaller beekeepers. I like selling locally too, that way I have a better feel for what is happening in the local market. If there is payment problem it's a maximum 1 hour truck drive. We get top dollar for local honey. Any prairie honey we produce is sold locally and we may not get top dollar but we do get paid.

Jean-Marc

suttonbeeman

08-26-2009, 08:47 PM

BUD Im getting worried....we agree on something!!! lol we need to go drink a cold beer!
Like the above post Sue was a great idea when it started but like government is it soon didnt benefit the people(members). Back in 2001 sue was selling bears to Kroger for 83 cents a bear(9.80 cs of 12)I caused a big flap when I was at the Wisconsin meeting and Mr Dienielt(sp) asked me why I thought the price of honey was dropping so much. I gave the sue payment ect and told the price they were selling bears for..sue's faces got red, I mean really red and they said I didnt have my figures right. I was representing the honey board at the meeting and I took off my honey board hat, my abf director hat and spoke as my personal opinion. I had calls from the honey board chairmen along with several others as sue was hot.. Just a couple of years ago at the Louisville meeting they admitted to me int he hallway I was right but didnt want anyone to know they were undercutting the market! They were trying to increase their market share. What a mess! Besides the above post of selling honey as honey and not as varietal source you know why they are paying 1.30....what a joke!

Beeslave

08-26-2009, 09:04 PM

All of us who sell to packers could put a stop to the nonpayment/late payment issue by demanding money in hand before/at delivery. After they recieve the samples from us to do their testing they know what they are getting. Who were the unwise beeks that ever allowed the 30-60-90 day later pymt to start anyways. When I first started selling to packers I was just appauled to be told that pymt was in 60 days. I told them I was not a bank and they said that is how it is, so needing to sell my product I did and 65 days later I had to make a reminder call. We are in sense a "union without contract". We as beeks are the ones that produce the "bread and butter" for the packers. It's time they treat us that way. Call every packer you know and ask them to send you $50,000 and you will send them the honey in 60 days. They will laugh at you. Shouldn't we give them the same respect they give us? Oh, buy the way, still getting $1.65 in drums and pails(they provide pails 4 gal. or larger) raw straight from holding tank unfiltered cash in hand. Anyone that questioned the price was told that is what it is and they paid with no more arguement. Now what to do with the other 90% of crop left. Borrow it interest free?

Beeslave

08-26-2009, 09:29 PM

Why is the highest paid for "white" honey in U.S.A. for July from Argentina?

http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/fvmhoney.pdf

suttonbeeman

08-27-2009, 06:41 AM

I dont sell on credit. When I sell to a packer(orange blossom or bakery honey, I bottle some orange and all my other honey)I get paid at delivery or 1/2 at delivery and 1/2 in 14-30 days or they dont get it!

John Smith

08-27-2009, 04:58 PM

Go down to your nearest coin shop and try to buy a gold coin on 30 day account! No, that is not the way it works with gold. You put up your money and you get the gold.

Gold isn't even medicine, much less food. Honey is all three. It is edible gold.

America must be about the best place in the world right now to buy honey, mostly because no one ever puts up his offering price until after all the eager beavers have sold theirs.

Now you know why the price spiked upwards so high a few years ago. Got us all excited, so we bought new trucks and everything else thinking we were rich. Now we have to sell honey as soon as we get it to make our monthly payments.

Imported honey is much easier to pay more for than local honey. It is a very 'quiet' industry, that importing business. What they pay foreigners is usually kept out of the local bee news. Packers and customers alike will pay what ever they have to, if only beekeepers knew how to value their own product. Then, of course, we have the goody goodies who think it is a crime to ask for profitable prices. Those very pious types usually buy shares in banks. ............. honorable and respected businesses, aye?

Sioux is probably so strapped for liquidity they can hardly pay for what little honey they are getting and no sympathy is likely to come their way from their bankers! So try doing some macro sums on how much money would be lost if one local shop defaults on a few cases of honey and compare that to how much would be lost if a major packer went belly up. People bought shares in Enron because it was so big it couldn't fail. Too many eggs in one basket is not recommended.

Inflate or perish!

Cheers,

JohnS

irwin harlton

08-27-2009, 09:05 PM

http://www.honey.com/honeyindustry/stats/avgprice4countries.htm

average price for May 1.41

average price for june 1.27

price paid for Chinese IN JUNE .98

It was my understanding that the duties, import tax, surcharges on Chinese honey would make it uncompetitive, or well above the current market prices........ so did China drop their prices some more or is this the mislabeled honey called syrup?

irwin harlton

08-29-2009, 05:26 AM

Prices rise in Argentina?

No el nina rains yet

Daily prices payd to the producer, per kilogram per drum, export quality

http://www.apitrack.com/noticias/aaacotizacionmiel_es_open.htm

Ian

08-30-2009, 10:52 AM

Its hard to compaire producer cooperative returns to open market return.
One hand we are expecting to deliver our crop in return of the yearly average price paid for the crop, and the other hand we deliver on spot pricing and reactionary marketing.
Both have their advantages and disadvantages, both will bring in more than the other some years.

When it comes down to me and my marketing choice,
Its a matter of risk management

irwin harlton

09-04-2009, 09:50 PM

" Its hard to compaire producer cooperative returns to open market return."

Would be like comparing apples and oranges, both fruit , honey is honey weather its in a co-op drum or not.... its all in the marketing, it all ends up on the store shelf or in some food as a ingredient.The cost of a sure market and a sure payment are high.
I was a co-op member in the early 70's, as was my father before me.No doubt things have changed , nice to see Bee maid selling a liquid ELA or golden honey on the shelf, they seem to have problems back then marketing that colour when I was a member and making a decent return on it, like their return on colured honey was less than 1/2 the return on white.Meanwhile BILLY BUZZ was paying one price for all colours and it was better than the co-ops total final payment on white honey

It was once pointed out to me and my other free market friends that without Beemaid free marketing of honey would be alot tougher..... meaning more competition in this market and more pawns for the packers to work over. Bee maid takes a big wad of honey out of the Canadian market, they have also been know to dump honey into the bulk market...... for what ever reason, falling prices , cash flow problems, or just being nice to their US friends

Don't really like to bash the co ops too hard , they are hard at work serving their members and also me.......... The less honey on the open market the better I like it

There is more than supply and demand at play in this honey market. Historically the longer a commodity is depressed in price the higher it will rise when the manipulation ends. This is due to the fact that increased production requires a rising price to provide incentive for the producer.

Ian

09-05-2009, 06:48 PM

>>Bee maid takes a big wad of honey out of the Canadian market, they have also been know to dump honey into the bulk market...... for what ever reason, falling prices , cash flow problems, or just being nice to their US friends

I dont know about that,
In BeeMaids case its a marketing decision made by one organization,
otherwise it would be a marketing decision made by many producers
both selling it at the same price. Call it dumping or marketing?
China dumps,

>>Historically the longer a commodity is depressed in price the higher it will rise when the manipulation ends

yup, that still is a trader theory
but look at the commodity markets right now :)

John Smith

09-06-2009, 06:29 PM

It appears to me that some of us believe what is detailed in official reports while others of us look at the obvious activity and deduce for ourselves just what is really going on.

There is some truth in everything (otherwise it could hardly exist) but seeing the official 'news release' or 'annual report' as truth usually takes someone pure in heart and worthy of their position.

Needless to say, myriad conclusions are reached by those who nut it out for themselves, leading to considerable confusion. Those who accept it at face value all tend to agree. Hence we have collectivist and individualist, the former do best in good times, the latter do best in bad.

Cheers,

JohnS

The Honey Householder

09-07-2009, 08:18 PM

In 30+ years of honey production this has been the crazies in honey sales. In past years I held back a few semi loads and the big packers end up with it. This year with the big shortage in the area, the beekeepers help me out by buying those loads up. So to the big packers that keep quoting low prices. :doh:Maybe next year, but after selling to the beekeepers I would have to say go luck. It's always nice to see the little guy make it in this doggy-doggy world of business.
I want to thank all those that made my year and hope to see you back next year.
Nothing sold for under $1.65 a pound this year. My crop came up 18% short of last years crop.
Still an awesome year!!!:popcorn:
Thanks,
o/o Ron Householder

Ian

09-11-2009, 03:10 PM

The word is Argentina is planting a record soybean crop, pushing aside wheat and canola acreages,
Also reports of very cool winter, with little precipitation until just recently.
Farmers are delayed on planting due to the dryness, but more so by the terrible economic conditons, avaliable credit.

Not sure how this effects the honey prices right now, but certainly looks like there will be a continued trend towards darker smaller Argentina honey crop,

Looks like this power house of a food producer is going to be held on the sidelines for another season,

Roland

09-12-2009, 08:23 PM

Tasted some honey that was offered for 1.45 dockside. Yuch!!!! tasted like the stuff in the portion packs at fast food places. Tasted like dark honey , but was light colored. How could that be?????? CLAIMED to be from Thailand. Why would ANYONE put their name on a label with this product inside? Is the public that miss informed about what REAL honey tastes like?

Roland

Beeslave

09-12-2009, 09:14 PM

Is the public that miss informed about what REAL honey tastes like?

Yes they are! All the health hype on how healthy honey is so people that know nothing about real honey go to the local supermarket chain and buy the cheapest honey because they think honey is honey. They go home, wake the next morning to try their healthy honey, open the bottle of their over processed "honey", put it on their toast and think gross. Never to buy it again. The more we as beekeepers inform our local public on the honey issue the better off we are. Free samples, your great fresh honey and bottles of honey from where ever side by side, the public will decide and be enlightened.

Imported honey dockside for $1.45 and the packers buying(offering) from us for less. Don't allow them to do it!

John Smith

09-13-2009, 01:49 AM

Don't let them do it! Well Said Roland.

BEEKEEPERS determine the price of honey.

I know, I know. You are all screaming at me now. We are helpless slaves, you are thinking. THEY set the price and we have no option but to accept it.

WRONG. You had it first, you are in control of it.......... until............?

They (whoever that might be) will be quite happy to pay any price right down to nothing if they can find a beekeeper willing to accept it. Beekeepers determing the price by accepting the price offered and completing the sale. This phenomenon is not necessarily confined to large packers or international exporters either. Its the same with your neighbor next door and your work pals, your brother-in-law and your lawyer............ it makes no difference.

They would ALL rather get it for nothing if we are silly enough to part with it at that price.

So if you are happy with sixpence a pound, or a dollar. That will be the price.

Cheers and happy haggling!

JohnS

irwin harlton

09-13-2009, 03:58 PM

So what should the price of bulk honey be?

Currently a eastern Canadian packer is offering 1.55 Can, freight paid , drums lost.Do not think he will get a whole lot at this price
Don't know what Odem is offering, anyone know?

Cost of production is considerably higher in Canada than in the the US, but can be offset sometimes by the higher yield.

USA offers seem to be stuck around the 1.40 - 1,45 and the Canadian dollar seems to gaining ground daily.
If the so called shortage materializes what should a producer have in mind for a price?

This spring loads in Canada sold for 1.75 and 1.80... less than a dozen loads sold .

AHPA have any target price in mind?Last year AHPA was saying 1.55, things have changed considerably from last fall.

Heard the hottest market right now is Asia-Japan paying well above current US prices

Ian

09-14-2009, 04:58 PM

More news from Argentina,
Talking of an El Nino ocean current providing more moisture in the future, This has commodity trading looking at bigger soybean crop ontop of the record breaking plantings ,
Perhaps the increased amount of precip will promote a better honey crop down south.

this news comes in direct contrast to what has been commented on previously,

Commodity futures are looking at this seriously, should the honey market?

Wee3Bees

09-16-2009, 09:06 PM

If the commodity markets did look at honey more seriously, what price would we think is appropriate for white or light amber? I will take a stab at the prices and say, $1.90 and $1.75 per pound, respectively?

The US Dollar has decreased from about $90.00 (US Dollar index) in March, 2009 to a price of $76.25 today. This represents a price decrease (inflation, if you will) of 18% which should translate into a price increase for honey of the same amount. This doesn't even incorporate the apparent shortage of honey worldwide...

I bet we could see $2.00 per pound of white honey in the US in the next 12 months. Of course, it could be back at $1.00 per pound also if the packers have their way...

I don't really have a clue about these things as I am a sideliner... but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night!:lpf:

irwin harlton

09-17-2009, 07:47 PM

Re. More news from Argentina,

Even if Argentina returns a big crop in 2010,I think it will be alot like the last crop, dark and not a alot of white, the country has changed from cattle to soybean .

Re Wee3Bees

Your price projections are right on......... if anything you could be on the low side, there is a shortage and the packers will have to pay to play.The Packer producer relationship....... now thats a whole new can of worms

John Smith

09-17-2009, 08:15 PM

I believe each honey producer regardless of quantities must assess the price he/she feels content with (as a minimum) but better yet, what price would motivate him/her to invest more into added productivity, as that is the only price that will ultimately resolve the shortages problem (barring acts of God, sudden population or total economic collapse, meteor hit, etc.).

I believe honey is overdue for the best wave of my lifetime. Big waves are the result of faddism, and yes, Manuka is on a roll now and we tend to see that as an isolated event, which it isn't. In the minds of the rank and file, it is lifting ALL honey in a very positive way.

My lifelong involvement with the Health Food Industry gives me insights into faddism that not everyone recognises. But if you were involved with oat milling, you may remember the tremendous spike in oat bran prices when it was discovered to be helpful in managing cholesterol. Something like that may be happening soon to cinnamon powder (and bark). It may not have happened to coffee beans since the 19th century, but it happens to some foodstuff somewhere nearly every year.

It tends to happen to foodstuffs that are valueless (relatively speaking, like oat bran and Manuka Honey were), and it is a small percentage of the consuming public who create the interest, spread it around and later the general public and the food processing and manufacturing industries get into it, and the big wave emerges............ and crashes, of course, as waves of this nature are want to do.

Honey is certainly not to be seen as valueless, but has of recent decades been one of the least profitable products going, which tends to weaken the producing baseline. The percentage of people following the 'health food trend' continues to increase every year and the disposable incomes of large populations the world over has risen in relation to the price of honey (and many of those cultures value honey very highly).

The internet is giving millions of people access to research results that were previously ignored and/or suppressed by big organisations, and a ground swell of interest in honey as a super food is patently evident to me, although some tell me they see no such change.

I however, am busy trying to help create that change, so I am very sensitive to the level of interest that is out there. Large organisations the world over are having trouble these days keeping the lids on things, and are increasingly losing their ability to hold things like honey (and natural health philosophies) in safe confinement.

The Manuka Honey broke a pilot hole in the wall of prejudice that had kept honey confined (for say, 80 years?) and now we find myriad floral sources around the globe rising (with official sanction) to help satisfy this enormous demand for medicinal honey. The remaining wall is purely imaginary, or 'in the mind' and is crumbling rapidly (it is not a Real Barrier, as they have long ago disappeared, as in distance from source to market, infrastructure etc.) The historic view of honey is on our side. Every beekeeper should be aware that all honey delivers some benefit in the health sense, and he/she should be prepared to stand up and proclaim this fact also.

Toss in the interest created around pollination, the inevitable price rises in other sweeteners thanks to cereal and cane crop shortages, high demand for starches for ethanol production, an ever expanding population, the iniquitousness of inflation etc. and I can only conclude that the sky is the limit for the dollar value of honey. Its relative value to other super foods (and food generally) is the one most beneficial to producers, and if ever there was a time for it to happen, this must be it.

Nominating a maximum price would be foolishness (in my humble opinion). There are too many national currencies, and they bob up and down like corks in the surf too, but earlier on (around 2002), the price spiked out to more than double, and while some folk positively and emphatically state that such an event will never occur again, I fail to see any trend arising to support that notion. My call is “That little spike was simply a tracer bullet, fired in the preliminary stage.” The price of honey will soon break ALL records in dollar terms, and possibly in real terms too relative to other commodities. That previous spike was in the BUYER's offering price, not the PRODUCER's nominated price!

Sure, today's price is very welcome, and honey as money is perfect, so when one needs to convert from one currency (honey) to another (dollars) it is good value, but to me, it is nothing by comparison with what I foresee as looming in the not very distant future.

The world's largest buyers are sitting on their hands (and their pocketbook) clinging to the hope that some crop will turn up somewhere to save them. Leaders of large organisations are famous for leaving things rock along until it is too late! If that fails, which is looking increasingly likely, the Northern Hemisphere winter is looming, and with public demand increasing, what are they going to do? One of them somewhere will panic and start buying AT ANY PRICE, and having broken ranks with the "Brotherhood" will be the catalyst for a major chase for the available stocks. So go on, be a good beekeeper and ‘donate’ your honey to the cause, for the good of mankind. Or be like me, and sit back a little bit and wait for them to get really anxious (for the cause of my own survival and my kids' welfare).

Sure, honey substitutes will flourish too, but what about Manuka and Sidr and Jarrah and Ulmo and myriad other floral types that will be licensed in coming months? The same people who will dilute real honey with Glucose will dilute those very marketable medicinal honeys with some less well known honey which will be cheaper to buy, and at the end of the day where will all the honey come from? ................... Certainly not from the moon or from Antarctica.

The big question should read like this? Do I especially need to convert my best investment into dollars at this moment, and if so, then how many dollars is appropriate at this moment? How much will the market bear? Honey is edible gold and daily fixes are not far away!

Cheers, and happy marketing!

JohnS