Buying nuc vs. package bees

[Barry]

The pros and cons of nucs and package bees for first hive.

[Putz]

packaged bees are mostly not related to each other and definately not related to the queen, and they have no brood for a boost in population.

nuc has bees related to eachother and to the queen and has brood to give them a good boost in population and usually has a frame of stores to boot.

nucs work better more often than packages.

[Tom G. Laury]

Packages won't have any sealed brood for at least 10 days allowing a great opportunity to impact mite population

[Michael Bush]

The first issue is that with a package you have your choice of equipment (mediums, small cell comb, top bar hives etc.) where with deep nucs you're limited to what you get.

All other things (such as choice of equipment) aside, I think you get a couple of week head start with a package, but then you often get the nuc two weeks later anyway. :)

[hillhousehoney]

Approximately how many bees make up a nuc; verses say a 3# package?

[hillhousehoney]

I found out the answer to this question. What a dumb question it was.:pinch: I now understand what and how a nuc works.

[Ruben]

When I started beekeeping with packages I enjoyed watching and learning with bees as they started out the colony. Seeing the progression from nothing, and having new white wax and easily removable frames ( no propolis ) helped me being when I was a newbie. I think I would have missed some of this starting out with an established colony.

[JohnK and Sheri]

Depending on the part of the country you are in and when you get your bees, you might have to feed a great deal to get a package to the point of self sufficiency, especially if they are started on bare foundation. For someone who is not familiar or not yet too comfortable with bees, a nuc, which is a bit closer to autopilot, can be a good choice.
In addition, the queen has been proven in a nuc; she is laying, not something always to be taken for granted in a package. The beginner can see all stages of bee development and see what "normal" actually means.
Timing of the first major honey flow can also be a determinant. If the flow is early a nuc might better take advantage of it but if the flow is later in the season a package may do just fine.
For those with experience, installing on drawn comb, the cheaper price of the package may well be the determining factor.
We normally recommend nucs for beginners.
Sheri

[Ruben]

I can see your point Sheri. Myself, I was eager to learn and I started out with two packages and went into them once a week the entire first season. Mainly so I could learn. They made plenty of stores and both made it through the winter. I have bought established hives and caught swarms and made splits since then.

[albee]

Packages can show up dead or half dead. I think about 5% abscond. You have more drift. You have to take the package back for deposit.

[Michael Palmer]

I think about 5% abscond.

And 30% supercede.

[Michael Palmer]

I think you get a couple of week head start with a package

Really? Why? I would think it would be the other way around.

[albee]

And 30% supercede.

I'm Glad you said it. 2 years ago I had that happen. Last year the packages had Hawaiian Queens and they were good.

[Michael Bush]

>I think you get a couple of week head start with a package
>Really? Why? I would think it would be the other way around.

Brain fart. Sorry.

I think you get a couple of week head start with a nuc over a package. But you often get the nuc two weeks after the package. :)

[Michael Palmer]

[QUOTE=Michael Bush;367888 But you often get the nuc two weeks after the package.[/QUOTE]

You know what I'm going to say next...

Don't "split" your strong colonies in the spring, but instead, split up your non-productive colonies in mid-summer, and winter your nucs.

Full details at the Nebraska State Beekeepers meeting a week from tomorrow. :-)

[sierrabees]

<Don't "split" your strong colonies in the spring, but instead, split up your non-productive colonies in mid-summer, and winter your nucs.>

Management is effected a lot by location. In my area it is really difficult to get a split made after the middle of June up to strength for winter. I don't start anything past the first of June anymore unless I can end up with ten frames of bees and 8 frames of brood in each split, because I will just end up having to combine it in Sept or I'll spend more time and money feeding than the colony will be worth. I could take them to one of my locations in valley but then they would be surrounded by large opperations with hundreds of hives close by and I would end up with a different set of problems and a bigger fuel bill to work them. With todays prices, can cost me more to fill the gas tank than a nuc of bees is worth.

[JohnK and Sheri]

>
Brain fart. Sorry.
Talk about a brain fart. I read your comments as you meant them, not as you said them, didn't even catch your misstatement, because of course the nuc has the head start. I read what I expected to read. Talk about reading (non)comprehension.:D
Sheri

[bleta12]

There is nuc and nuc and then there is Overwintered nuc.
Not all nucs are created equal.

Gilman

[beemandan]

Management is effected a lot by location.
I couldn't agree more. Late season splits here are an invitation for shb disasters. The shb population is at its peak and reducing the bee population in established hives increases the opportunity for the beetles get the upper hand. The new nucs are also extremely vulnerable to shb. Having said that I do make a few late season nucs to overwinter but within very narrow limits. And those nucs require much more attention than in the pre-shb days.

[GRIMBEE]

There is nuc and nuc and then there is Overwintered nuc.
Not all nucs are created equal.

Gilman

I'll take one of your overwintered nucs over a 4 pound package- all day every day. Esp when they are local Northeast bees, slim chance of AHB.

[Michael Bush]

My overwintered nucs usually make my strongest colonies.

[Michael Palmer]

<Don't "split" your strong colonies in the spring, but instead, split up your non-productive colonies in mid-summer, and winter your nucs.>

Management is effected a lot by location. In my area it is really difficult to get a split made after the middle of June up to strength for winter. .

I agree about beekeeping being local. I'm a northern beekeeper, and nuc-ing non-productive colonies in mid-summer fits right into our flow pattern.

Maybe I shouldn't say "mid-summer", and I should say mid-mainflow.

It's just that if I split my good colonies in the spring, at say Dandelion, I never will see...in my short season...those split colonies reach their potential. I know that the book says a colony will rebuild to full strength in 4 weeks. Well, I think that's a myth...especially in the north.

So, what if you made nucs on the main flow, from colonies that weren't producing a crop. Use the bees and brood from them to make nucs. I can keep mine in 4 frame units, but maybe that's not possible in the south. Couldn't they be expanded into singles, and wintered as singles?

Southern beekeeping is foreign to me. You have such a mild winter, and such a long buildup time. Is there a way to take advantage of the bees and brood in non-productive colonies? Yes, you can requeen those non-producers, for next year, but that doesn't guarantee success with that colony. Up here, it makes more sense to make nucs and winter them.

[fatscher]

Mike: Not exactly sure how many hives you manage, but seems like I heard the number 400 from you or someone else.

My question: Knowing you have many hives which exceed 6 or 7 feet tall, do these count as one hive, or do they count as two, or some other number?

Sorry webmaster for getting off topic...:doh:

[Michael Palmer]

My question: Knowing you have many hives which exceed 6 or 7 feet tall, do these count as one hive, or do they count as two, or some other number?

The number is more like 700+. Yes, each stack is one hive. The broodnests are 2 deeps and a medium.

[Docking]

Can a Nuc be pushed hard enough to draw out 2 deeps and a med of honey in their first year?
I'm purchasing a Nuc this spring. I'm dropping off a deep -4 frames. he will feed 6 qrt. of syrup while the queen cell is hatching. Then 6 qrt more while she breeds and proves herself. I should get the hive back by the first week in April if not a little before.

[sds888]

Can a Nuc be pushed hard enough to draw out 2 deeps and a med of honey in their first year?
I'm purchasing a Nuc this spring. I'm dropping off a deep -4 frames. he will feed 6 qrt. of syrup while the queen cell is hatching. Then 6 qrt more while she breeds and proves herself. I should get the hive back by the first week in April if not a little before.

This from a new beekeep so take it for a grain of salt. My nuc this last year I got in late may early june. I fed and fed and until they filled up two deeps but they would never go into the medium after that. I think it depends on your flow. We are in an extreme drought here and flow this year was really bad at least that is what the beekeeps are saying around here.

[Michael Palmer]

Can a Nuc be pushed hard enough to draw out 2 deeps and a med of honey in their first year?

I would think so, but I don't know Alabama. My over wintered nucs fill a broodnest of 2 deeps and a medium (drawn comb) and most make 100-120lbs of surplus...often including a super of cut comb.

I guess it would matter how long before the main flow that new queen began laying, and how long the flow lasts.