What do you guys think about voter fraud?

[dragonfly]

Does the end justify the means?
I don't know if other news networks are running it or not, but Fox has been covering the issue of voter fraud, specifically with ACORN for the past couple of days. I'm surprised to see anyone with the guts to put this issue in the spotlight.

[Eaglerock]

Acorn? About what?

Different Voter problem/fraud
Well in our County, I am not likeing this computer voting that has no paper trail. One computer went down last election and they were lucky that it was able to be fixed. What happens when one crashes and all is lost. How hard would it be to do a re-vote vs. having a printer. Am I the only one that worries about this?

[dragonfly]

I'm not talking about broken machines. That's a mechanical problem, and yes, it would be difficult to do an accurate re-vote without throwing out every vote and having all voters do it again.
I'm talking about such things as registering dead people, imaginary people, cartoon characters, etc to vote or submitting 10 applications for registration cards in the same name. I'm talking about an honesty issue, not a mechanical one.

[cow pollinater]

Personally I think that if an election is close enough for fraud to be an issue, we are probably much more likely to have a miscount than actual fraud. I don't think we have fraud on such a massive scale that it will tip an election.
I'm sure it does happen but I find it much more likely that most of it is percieved deciet from the losing party.

[drobbins]

I just saw a piece on CNN about ACORN turning in 5000 new voter registrations they had collected in Indiana and the election board finding 2100 appeared fraudulent
you shoulda heard their attorney trying to defend it:pinch:
somebody should go to jail

Dave

[Eaglerock]

I'm not talking about broken machines. That's a mechanical problem, and yes, it would be difficult to do an accurate re-vote without throwing out every vote and having all voters do it again.
I'm talking about such things as registering dead people, imaginary people, cartoon characters, etc to vote or submitting 10 applications for registration cards in the same name. I'm talking about an honesty issue, not a mechanical one.

I knew you were not talking about that... that's why I said different problem... and also I asked, "Acorn? About what?"

So what you are saying is I can't register my dogs, cats, and birds?

[BjornBee]

I just heard today that a county in Indiana has something like 710,000 people living there, and has 745,000 registered voters. I just caught the comment walking past the television, so I'm not even sure what channel carried it. ACORN is criminal in their behavior and is knowingly trying to fix the election on a scale never seen before in recent times.

Just another freind and long arm of the Dems and Barrack. No surprise there! ;)

[dragonfly]

I just saw a piece on CNN about ACORN turning in 5000 new voter registrations they had collected in Indiana and the election board finding 2100 appeared fraudulent
you shoulda heard their attorney trying to defend it:pinch:
somebody should go to jail

Dave

THAT's what I'm talking about. I'm surprised to hear CNN running it. Fox intereviewed a young woman a few minutes ago who says ACORN workers harass people coming out of grocery stores trying to get them to register again. Apparently, the ACORN workers get paid per registration form. The interviewee stated that when she told the person she was already registered, they told here "just sign here. I'll fill in the rest".

[dragonfly]

I just heard today that a county in Indiana has something like 710,000 people living there, and has 745,000 registered voters. ;)

Does that mean the voting age has been lowered, or the definition of life and death has been changed?;)

[drobbins]

Does that mean the voting age has been lowered, or the definition of life and death has been changed?;)

I think it means ACORN is active there;)

Dave

[dragonfly]

I think it means ACORN is active there;)

Dave

I'll bet you're right.:)

[dragonfly]

So what you are saying is I can't register my dogs, cats, and birds?

I think it depends on which city you are in.;) Being that you are in a battleground state, you probably can.

[NeilV]

Don't mean to sound dumb, but what's ACORN?

[cow pollinater]

It's the nut from an oak tree...dummy!:D

Couldn't resist;)

It is the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now.

[Hillside]

Isn't voter fraud a crime? I think it's a felony in my state and I expect also in most other states if not in all of them. Someone should enforce the law.

[JPK1NH]

Acorn has been implicated and charged many times in the past for voter fraud....and Obama gave them $800,000.00 to "Register" Voters.

Why is it that Obama would associate with a group that is well known for voter fraud?

Probably the same reason that he associates with the terrorist Bill Ayers and his hate mongering Reverend (Wright).

[dragonfly]

Isn't voter fraud a crime? I think it's a felony in my state and I expect also in most other states if not in all of them. Someone should enforce the law.

It depends on the state you are in from what I have read.
And yes, someone should enforce the law, but it appears to be one of those things that people just look the other way on.

[BjornBee]

Probably the same reason that he associates with the terrorist Bill Ayers and his hate mongering Reverend (Wright).


It's like the ignorant parent that comments about "little Jimmy's friends", suggesting that "they are no good for jimmy", and "Jimmy isn't like those other kids".

Yes "Jimmy" is like them. Little Jimmy is part of that group, because that is who he is. "Birds of a feather do flock together".

And if any parent really wants to find out how their kids really are.....they just need to look at the flock their "little Jimmy" runs with. If they are crap.....Jimmy is crap.

No different with adults, politicians, etc.

The concept remains the same.

[Swobee]

Sounds like some of you think dead people have no rights. Shame! Come to think of it, the ACLU hasn't been in the news much lately, maybe they can work on this gross injustice. If 'that one' has followers who want dead people voting for him, then it's just a case of exercising dead people's rights. Come on now, surely dead people have rights- they've been voting in Chicago for decades now. That one just has some followers who maybe think it's time to bring Chicago-style polictics to the masses. Don't mess with tradition.

[beegee]

The biggest problem I have with the Democrat Party is its zeal to register anything and everything(animal, mineral, vegetable, living or dead) as a voter. I think people who want to vote will figure out a way to vote without the help of a specific party. The League of Women Voters will help them. The voter registrar interviewed in Ohio, who was supposed to be non-partisan, giddily admitted that she was telling the homeless people(what district do the homeless vote in?) that she registered, to vote for Obama. The Democrats' infatuation with volume voter recruitment has manifested itself in the inclusion of every fringe and splinter group in the nation, regardless of radical ideas, wacko philosophies, and mental competence. I don't know how you identify core ideals and values in such a purposefully heterogeneous aggregation. When you pander to the baser emotions of your population base, you end up with a messy quid pro quo balance sheet.

[Scrapfe]

Personally I think that if an election is close enough for fraud to be an issue, we are probably much more likely to have a miscount than actual fraud. I don't think we have fraud on such a massive scale that it will tip an election...that most of it is percieved deciet from the losing party.

A while back a loosing, incumbent, county commission chairman, candidate in the Democrat primary waged a general election write in campaign. He only received 15 write in votes in the general election but 3,000 plus write in votes cast by absentee voters or 45% of all registered voters in that county who voted, voted absentee.

Since all these absentee voters voted a straight Democrat party ticket, (except for this one write in commissioners race,) this impacted the state wide election for Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court. I took 3 years and a Federal law suit to rectify the matter. The real tragedy was the Democrat who ultimately was stripped of his seat on the Alabama Supreme Court had his future political career ruined by the bad publicity. When he had done nothing wrong himself. It's like my old snuff dipping granny used to say, "Ye lay down with dogs, ye git up with fleas."

[Derek]

Why is there not one voting system/machine? Hanging Chad's, Fraudulant Registration, ect..

Rumor is that you will now have to give a blood sample each time you vote. And your DNA must match each time you vote for it to count.

j/k of course.

But is there not a better system for a unison voting system?

[Scrapfe]

dragonfly Asked: "What do you guys think about voter fraud?"

Scrap iron answered: "I'm fer it, ifin its fer my man, and agin it, ifin its agin my man."

Voter fraud is the American way. Lincoln would probably have lost in 1864 without massive voter fraud.

JFK certainally was elected in 1960 by voter fraud. When he reneged on the deal by allowing his other brother Larry to investigate the mob it also got him killed. Either that or Lyndon B. Johnson or his wife Lady Byrd, read a comic book about a guy from Scotland named MacBeth.

Then there is the "Corrupt Deal of 1826 that saw J.Q. Adams elected president for the proverbial 30 pieces of silver.

Tilden-Hayes, and others.

[Derek]

THAT's what I'm talking about. I'm surprised to hear CNN running it. Fox intereviewed a young woman a few minutes ago who says ACORN workers harass people coming out of grocery stores trying to get them to register again. Apparently, the ACORN workers get paid per registration form. The interviewee stated that when she told the person she was already registered, they told here "just sign here. I'll fill in the rest".


Why not just say you want to talk about ACORN from the start?

Would voter fraud include Wal-Mart pressuring employees to vote against Democrats in November because of worries that a bill the party supports would make it easier for workers to unionize.

[Scrapfe]

...Would voter fraud include Wal-Mart pressuring employees to vote against Democrats in November because of worries that a bill the party supports would make it easier for workers to unionize.

The bill you mentioned would not change any of the requirements for voting in a union shop. This bill however would take away the employees right to cast a secret ballot, and open that employee up to reprisals by his fellow employees. I guess hate speech and violence is good if it only benifits the Dems. :scratch: What is funny is the Democrats crying about Bush and the NSA listing to their telephone conversations. :doh:

Today GM's (or as Al Capp dubbed it General Bull Moose) stock closed at a 58
year low, and not far off its 1929 price. I've heard many GM employees aka, UAW members express the belief that GM's pockets were bottomless its bank accounts boundless. Most of these are now former employees, having had to accepted a buy out package to quit GM. The problem is that by acting like greedy CEOs these employees have condemned their children and many of yours to a life with little hope of ever getting a blue collar job that will enable them to raise grandchildren to fill the void left when you die.

Now I wish to ask you a question. Would voter fraud include a shop steward pressuring an employee to vote for a candidate the union management approves of even if the employee in question is uncomfortable with that union backed candidate?

[Eaglerock]

You know, I hope they find the person/persons and give them jail time.

DF- Acorn- I heard the guy state that these people clearly never existed and the signatures were Forgeries. If these people don't exist then they are not forgeries. Now if they were real people and were dead, then maybe.

[tecumseh]

dragonfly writes:

I'm talking about an honesty issue, not a mechanical one.

tecumseh: and the two are not in someway related?

when THE state's top election offical sezs... I will do everything in my power to assure X become president. what do you think that really means?

then scrap iron writes:
JFK certainally was elected in 1960 by voter fraud. When he reneged on the deal by allowing his other brother Larry to investigate the mob it also got him killed. Either that or Lyndon B. Johnson or his wife Lady Byrd, read a comic book about a guy from Scotland named MacBeth.

tecumseh: humm... first a bit of totally inaccurate history followed by conspiracy theory and then more conspiracy theory..

where is my tinfoil hat when I really need it????

and now on to voter fraud...

yep it has always been a part of the system and yes we have quite likely even had an illigitimate president or two (either via qualification or via voter fraud). heck my dad's absentee vote during his 6 years serving in the armed services was not so casually (yep he was profiled) in a culvert located somewhere between the post office and the court house. this detail was likely his prime motivation for becoming involved in politics (and no he never held office... he did help convince a man to run for office who some here quite like to call a pig).

voter fraud is much more likely to occur in regards to absentee voting than any other kind of voting (which is not to say some machine votes have also been manipulated on a regular bases). I SUSPECT that the absentee vote via old folks home is the most likely population to be manipulated. I also SUSPECT that folks with homes in multiple states quite often time commit voter fraud.

[MapMan]

yep it has always been a part of the system

So that makes it right in your eyes?

MM

[dragonfly]

Why not just say you want to talk about ACORN from the start?



Because it's honesty in the democratic process that I wanted to talk about. Not ACORN. They just happen to be the ones in the news.

[Hillside]

I don't know how it works in other states, but here are the requirements for Minnesota. We rarely hear about any kind of voter fraud with this system.

If you register at least 20 days before election day, you just fill out the proper form which contains the information needed to verify your residency.

If you are not registered to vote or need to update your registration information, you may do so at your local polling location on Election Day. However, you are required to provide proof of residence when registering on Election Day.

To register at your polling place on Election Day, you must have one of the following with your current name and address in the precinct to verify your residence:

* A valid Minnesota driver’s license, learner’s permit, Minnesota ID card, or receipt for any of these
* A valid student ID card including your photo, if your college has provided a student housing list to election officials
* A Tribal ID card that contains your picture and signature
* A valid registration in the same precinct under a different name or address
* A notice of late registration sent to you by your county auditor or city clerk
* A voter registered in the same precinct as you who can confirm your address with a signed oath
* An employee of the residential facility where you live who can confirm your address with a signed oath

Alternatively, you may provide both 1) a photo ID from the list below, and 2) a current bill with your current name and address in the precinct.

Photo IDs (may be expired)

* Minnesota Driver's License
* Minnesota ID Card
* United States Passport
* United States Military ID Card
* Tribal ID Card
* Minnesota University, College, or Technical College ID Card

Bills (delivered electronically or by mail)
* Utility bill due within 30 days of election day:
o Telephone (landline, cell, VOIP, etc.)
o TV (cable, satellite, etc.)
o Internet services
o Electric
o Gas
o Solid Waste
o Sewer Services
o Water
* Rent statement dated within 30 days of election day that itemizes utilities
* Current student fee statement


Very few people, as a percentage of the total, actually register on election day. Most voters have been registered and have voted many times over the years.

I suppose any system can be gamed. I've always felt whining about a problem is less beneficial than fixing it. What kind of changes would help fix the problem?

[dragonfly]

I've always felt whining about a problem is less beneficial than fixing it. What kind of changes would help fix the problem?

I agree. My intention was not to whine, but to see what my fellow beeks think about the issue, whether it is deeply ingrained in the system, whether or not it affects elections, and that general line of thought.

As for fixing it, there's probably a few things that could be done. Number one, in my mind, is not to make registering people to vote a profitable endeavor. Someone who is interested enough to vote doesn't need coercion, and paying individuals to drum up votes for one party or the other adds to the dishonesty of the process.
Another thought is that in this day and age of computers, the people who show up to vote could have some type of identifying information entered into a computer program, showing that they have voted already, rejecting additional attempts to vote in other localities or by other individuals. At the local level, require legitimate ID when voter registrations are handled. Again, if a person is interested enough to vote, he should be willing to provide information in person.
I'm sure there are others than I am not thinking of.

[Sundance]

I think relying on computers for voting is a major
mistake. It certainly heightens the prospect of
major voter fraud. Old school works for me as
far as voting.

Let us not forget that voter fraud is not exclusive
to either party!!

And let's not either forget voter nullification.. both
are criminal and anti-American. Regardless of party.

[Derek]

Did the GOP have their hand in this? :D:p

Election mix-up: 'Osama' on some ballots

02:15 PM CDT on Friday, October 10, 2008

Associated Press

TROY, N.Y. -- Who is running for president? In an upstate New York county, hundreds of voters have been sent absentee ballots in which they could vote for "Barack Osama."

The absentee ballots sent to voters in Rensselaer County identified the two presidential candidates as "Barack Osama" and "John McCain."

[dragonfly]

I seem to recall, awhile back, my favorite Teddy Kennedy calling Obama Osama in front of a camera. Maybe he's the one who had the ballots printed up;).

[sqkcrk]

I believe that the biggest impact that fradulent voter registrations will cause is the expense of challenging the registrations and the slowing down of lines because of ID verification. It's a shame that this sort of thing is happening.

[sqkcrk]

When I have the opportunity to vote I have to show identification (usually my drivers id card) and then I have to sign the book which has a copy of my signature. As far as I know, I can only vote in the Township in which I am registered.

Is this not true everywhere? If not, maybe we need nationwide standards.