Home wind turbine

[summer1052]

Does anybody here have a small wind turbine, or have a neighbor who does? We are considering the installation of one, and want to talk to someone besides a company salesman. ;)

thanks,
Summer

[Sundance]

Lots and lots of variables Summer to give you an
answer or suggest any options.

Are you looking for a grid tied system?? Or battery?

I would suggest grid tied for ease of operation. Running
a large bank of batteries is a pain, and dangerous.

[Sundance]

If you are at all handy the Breezy 5.5 is sold in kit
form and performs really great.

http://www.prairieturbines.com/

Be careful as there is a lot of junk out there now.

[cow pollinater]

Also, be aware that some states are offering tax breaks for alternative energy sources that tie into the grid. That leaves the door wide open for a good fleecing form the company involved.
When I bought my solar panels there was a big tax break offered for CA residents that chose a grid-tie system. Most companies jacked up the price on grid-tie systems knowing that they were now worth more. I purchased an off-grid kit including batteries for just over half what the same size system would have cost in grid-tie. I didn't take the obvious tax break and the savings were huge.

[Swobee]

http://www.windpoweringamerica.gov/pdfs/small_wind/small_wind_guide.pdf

It's just a generic consumer guide. We are working on a calculator to help consumers make decisions on wind and it should be available soon. I'll post it when that happens. To clear the air - we (the company I work for) are a rural electric & nat. gas cooperative. Being a customer-owned utility and not an investor-owned company means that we try to help our people make legitimate decisions and not depend on sales hype. We strongly encourage conservation and alternatives when economically feasible.

Once the wind energy calculator is polished, it may help you see the real costs and benefits associated with wind energy. Texas is the #2 state with potential wind energy, N. Dakota is #1 and here in Kansas, we're 3rd.

Remember also, that wind is free, but it "ain't cheap". Nor is it dependable, but you might find youself able to lower dependence on the grid and hopefully receive some benefits agains peak power purchases and such. You may also find it one of the most rediculous investments you could make. We can depend on adequate wind power here about 36% of the time, the other 15 hours of the day, a wind system can be nothing but a piece of yard art. Remember also, that the winds aloft at 200-300 feet (where commercial turbines sit) are far different than on the surface (where your yard is). I'm not trying to discourage you at all, but take a look at the link below and I'll see if I can find you some more information to review.

We're at www.mwenergy.com and you'll find me in the list of energy auditors and maybe some other helpful information.

[Hambone]

I started looking into this a little while back. I am also looking for a way to go. Rather it be wind or solar. I used Energy Charge (1347 kwh) last month. I bought some land and plan on building a house. It is open land. And open around it. Dollar for Dollar. What it the best way to go. Wind? Solar? Combo? I have alot of questions on this. But lets start here.

ps. Summer. I am not trying to hijack your thread. I just find this really intresting. And maybe help us both out here.

[jellybeen]

We put in a wind generator and solar panels in 1999.

The wind generator couldn't (because of county regs) be put high enough to take advantage of the best winds. It produces only enough energy to run the computer that moniters its output.

It's a grid tied system with a battery back up. It produces about a third of the electricity we use. (single family home of five with goats, chickens and a well on five acers.) The batteries had to be replaced once. They are now the mantainance free type.

We got the rebates and permits and all that. It was a pain in the butt and expensive. We figured that the it would be a wash in about 20 years.

All that said, in the current political climite I'm glad we have it. I can offer the neighbors a drink of water and hot showers if the grid goes down because I'll be the only one for miles with water.

The best investment we made was a solar hot water system. That saved lots and lots of money. 90% of showers are solar. Very high return on the investment.

Hope this helps a little.

[summer1052]

I also live in a rural area with a co-op. My electric bills are running $350 + monthly. :pinch: Just looking for a way to help make a dent.

House is newer, well insulated, and everything is energy efficient. Being south TX, we do run an AC. Also use ceiling fans, and thermostat set at 77. But, jeez.

Being outside of town, some things are easier. My county does not have a buiding code, and there is already a tower with a large (!) tv antenna on it. (Set on a 6" concrete pad, no less.)

Solar is okay -- but I was more excited about it when I lived in Denver, with its 320 days per annum of sunshine. Not quite that good here.

Just considering the options. Also thought of a large hamster wheel tied to a turbine that my kids could run in and generate electricity . . . :D

Thx, Summer

[Swobee]

Summer- how did the calculator results look after you punched in some numbers? Are your bills that high due to high rates, high ECA this summer, combination? Or is it due simply to that much usage? I hear nighmare stories of high kilowatt rates in some parts of Tx.

[Sundance]

$350 per month!! Yikes!! If you are in a favorable
wind zone, and zoning will allow for a proper tower
height, the payback will be fairly quick.

Did you check out the Breezy 5.5??? Lots of bang
for the buck.

[papa bear]

summer here are some sites that might help

http://news.electricitybook.com/

http://www.backwoodshome.com/ these are articles by Jeffery Yago. i really like his books. bwh also has a cd on alternate energy. it has wind charts on it

http://www.energy.gov/ even they have wind charts.

you might want to call some of the colleges and universities in Texas, some of them are leading in this field.
most people only use wind as a supplemental source, since in a lot of places the wind is not constant enough speed for generation. you should think about photo-voltic also. don't rule out the professionals either, just like an electrician, most of them know what they are doing. :thumbsup:

[summer1052]

The best investment we made was a solar hot water system. That saved lots and lots of money. 90% of showers are solar. Very high return on the investment.

Hot water, dryer, oven and cooktop are propane. No help there.

Are your bills that high due to high rates, high ECA this summer, combination? Or is it due simply to that much usage? I hear nighmare stories of high kilowatt rates in some parts of Tx.

Yes. Bits of all of the above.
Here's a ballpark breakdown:
Service dates 5/24/08-6/24/08
Customer Charge: $20
KWH used: 3248
Wires Charge 3248 KWH @ 0.0334 $110
Power Cost Pass-Thru 3248 KWH @ 0.071 $235
TOTAL $365 :doh:

TX has supposedly 'de-regulated' to allow for 'competition', but I could only find ONE company that serviced this address. I just want to make a dent in it. DH is considering (mostly joking) all gas lamps inside, and using electric for AC, washer, dishwasher and computer.

Will keep posted on what I discover

The child hamster wheel is looking better and better. :waiting:

summer

[Swobee]

Without knowing your home, condition of A-C and other large electrical equipment, habits, weather data and the shape of your home thermal shell, I can only speculate. Sounds like your home needs an audit done- don't waste much time with the on-line energy audits. Their accuracy is so poor, it doesn't make them very good tools for discovery usually. See if your utility has an energy consulting division and might loan you a TED (The Energy Detective), Watts-Up or other such devices to monitor usage. If you're on a rural coop for electrical delivery, they usually offer all kinds of services not available from the IOU (Investor Owned Utilities) to help find the energy culpret. Believe it or not, there's a limit to how much load they really want customers to use and most preach conservation and load shifting methods to remain below peaks if at all possible. Even some of the big, bad IOU's may offer advice and assistance. Before making a big ticket plunge, see what affordable and reasonable changes might help out.

Maybe your home just needs a lot of energy, but 3,000+ kWh is a substantial amount of power for a "typical" home IMO. There's no such thing as average or typical, but a thorough look over usually turns up things to consider that may help out in the big picture. The first thing one needs to do is evaluate the home energy picture, then make the inexpensive and practical fixes before any big ticket items are invested into.

The squirrel cage idea may not be too bad, either as a stop gap measure!

[magnet-man]

There are two wind generator that I know of in Tulsa. In the 17 years I have lived here I have never seen them run. The gearing must have failed and never repaired. They are pretty high up to service. I am sure these were 1st generation turbines and were not up to the task.

[Sundance]

The machines have to be maintained. And the tower
should have a good work platform and safety harness
connection points. These things are heavy!!

[papa bear]

hey, i just ran across an old home power mag. i have fromdec/jan 2006. it has a very good lay out of wind driven generating systems. i think it is very informative for beginning. it also breaks down what ea. component is for. you pobably can get it off there web site.

[summer1052]

TY all VM!!

I am researching, in my free time, after beekeeping, remodeling, Girl Scouts, Church Choir, Kid's Choir, Piano lessons, fourth grade, second grade, reading in the class, laundry, cooking, planting trees, clearing brush, motherhood, and wifely chores.

I sleep one night per week for 6 hours. :sleep: :p

I am supposed to meet with a rep from my local coop next week. Will keep it updated.

Summer

[Swobee]

I've been married for 27 years and if you would be so kind as to enlighten me as to what a list of "wifely chores" is... I would be grateful. :scratch:
It may be time to review our contract and a little enlightenment might help my cause.

[Bizzybee]

Stay on topic please.....

[Swobee]

I want to apologize, didn't mean to hijack the thread. But since solar hot water was already mentioned, I will make a statement. I strongly, professionally feel that solar hot water will likely work out as a good investment. In fact it will outshine wind so many times as an economically feasible approach. Too often I see people dump a lot of money after little gain because of the lack of knowledge. Good intent is one thing, practicality is often another.

[summer1052]

I reviewed solar higher up in the thread. My hot water heaters are PROPANE, and not an issue for my electric bill, besides the ignition, which is negligible. Solar is an option, I know that. But, as I said, I was more excited about solar when I lived in Denver (more than 300 sun days per year, more than San Diego, CA even) than I am here. (200-250 sun days per annum)

The goal is to supplement (downgrade) the electrical useage. The house is less than 15 years old, VERY well insulated, and tight. The ACs are 2 years old, and very efficient. We have, and use ceiling fans, and set the thermostat high in the summer and low in the winter.

I do not use the supposedly wonderful new twisty lightbulbs, as they increased my headaches exponentially. I switched back to plain old bulbs and the headaches went away. I thought this odd until I did some research and found it IS a problem for some people.

The house does have square footage, and I can't change that. But I need to do more to reduce my usage.

Anyone have the welding and shop facilities for a 6'-0 diameter hamster wheel for kid-generated energy? :D

Summer

[Bizzybee]

I do not use the supposedly wonderful new twisty lightbulbs, as they increased my headaches exponentially. I switched back to plain old bulbs and the headaches went away. I thought this odd until I did some research and found it IS a problem for some people.


Summer

What kind of problems did you have? I only have a couple that I haven't replaced and only because I haven't gotten to them yet. They have made a huge difference in my usage. They come in a few different flavors and some specialty bulbs. But my home is pretty straight forward and has no special requirements.

[summer1052]

What kind of problems did you have?

MIGRAINES. More than 2 hours in a room with (all) twisty bulbs, and I had a full-blown migraine, with vomiting, noise sensitivity, etc. Happened every day until I changed the bulbs back.

The new bulbs have a low, but distinct, steady flicker. Some can't even see it. But those of us who are "sensitive" to it can respond with migraines, etc.
I am trying to build up resistance by changing one bulb at a time, every three months, because I understand that by 2010, they will be the ONLY bulbs available. :doh:

C'est la vie. If it keeps up, it won't matter, since I won't be able to afford to tun on the lights anyway, :D

Sum

[Swobee]

Summer - LED lamps may be a better replacement option for you. They've come a long way in recent years, but still cost quite a bit IMO. Their expected life is incredible, however, offsetting initial cost and energy savings also factors in to make them pretty economical in the end. Far greater life span than CFL's. We're experimenting with some in halls and other places to see how co-workers like them and how well they work out before recommending them too heavily. In a commercial building, we need to factor in on-going maintenance (replacement) costs in addition to energy savings to determine net cost of ownership. One of our facilities used to experience a lot of expense with just bulb changing. They had a lot of lamps that needed to be on 24/7. One thing that we don't usually factor in with a residential application is maintenance costs. We're going to see some interesting lighting applications and advancements come out in the next few years.

[Bizzybee]

You're right Swobee, I saw some new lights at a show one of our vendors put on a month or so ago. These were in the form of flood lamps, 110VAC. No idea what was driving them internally, but the led array was smaller than the size of a stamp and would blow your eyes out. Incredible amount of light being generated!