Non Bee Related Topics..... Organic apples?

[Black Creek]

been curious lately if any of you guys grow fruit on your property 'organically' but i dunno which forum i should ask in. Apples, pears, cherries, persimmons.....whatever. I'm curious about who has what and what problems , as in bug/disease problems in different areas of the country . I have some potted fruit trees and want to add them to my yard but i've been trying to keep everything growing organically on my property. From everything i've read, fruit and vegetables are 2 diferent things when it comes to growing organically. All the "old timers'' around here are all about spraying everything into oblivion. So, i havent picked up much from people locally.

I'm looking to share some ideas about fruit trees. I'm currently reading "The Apple Grower" by Michael Phillips, which is outstanding! (if you have read this far) and after buying a few other books over the last few years , i've started to realize how complex fruit can be.



What say you ?!

[beenovice]

I have all organic...vegetables, fruits ( apples ). No spraying, no problems. If I see aphids I maybe, just maybe spray with Nettles ( which I put into water for 24 hours ). I don't know if it is working or not but I don't see any aphids then. Anyway I let nature take care in form of ladybugs ;) mostly. I really don't care if I see couple of aphids on my trees. I never had any viruses getting into my gardens or something

If you grow fruits only for your own use there is really nothing complex about it. It seems that fruits and vegetables have problems when you plant them too close and when there are many of the same species closely together. If you leave "space" it works better. This is only my experience and not some science since I hardly ever read any books regarding gardening and growing fruits and vegatebles. Oh and I also try and grow only local stuff.

[randydrivesabus]

most unsprayed apples have appearance issues so they are fine for home use but may be tough to sell.
i have 3 cherry trees that have never been sprayed and this year they produced quite a few excellent cherries that I was able to sell.

[Ravenseye]

I have two incredibly old apple trees that grow the ugliest fruit but it tastes sooooo good. The trees are so old they're almost hollow in both trunks and I suppose they won't last too much longer. I eat the apples, the dogs eat the apples and the deer love the apples....including the one deer last fall that decided to knock the cover off one of the hives! If I had to replace the trees, I would grow organically and work hard at figuring out the best way to do it. But, I still can't get over how many apples two unmanaged trees can produce.

[Sundance]

I have 300 apple trees and use no spray that is not
certified for organic use so far.

My apples are nearly blemish free due to regular use
of Xentari (bt az) to control coddling moths.

The only problem I have now was a bout with fire
blight. I have yet to treat for it and am investigating
solutions that will adhere to my plan.

Soaps and alcohol work well for many temporary pests
and are fairly benign.

[Black Creek]

Hey Randy, are you growing sweet cherries or sour?

Ravenseye, if they are really old you might want to get some cuttings off of it and start some new trees before they're gone. There are lots of people looking for those old ugly apples (including ME !)

Sundance, that xentari is some good stuff. I have a nice crab apple tree that was here when i moved in and it gets some type of tent catapillars on it every year. one, maybe 2, applications of xentari and they all just shrivel up.



my next door neighbor grows all sorts of fruit but uses so many diferent chemical sprays i'm surprised the entire property doesnt glow in the dark like some sort of nuclear wast dump. I'm worried that my yard will act like a "trap crop" since it's such a poisoned environment next door. I'm guessing my biggest problem is going to be those dang japanese beetles.

[drobbins]

the Japanese Beetles are so bad here I gave up and cut down 2 sweet cherry trees I had:(
I have several fig trees I love. pests don't bother them and they seem to be quite drought tolerant
I have 3 peaches a pear and 2 apple trees that are bothered much less by the beetles
no chems on anything so far, they're only a few years old
Dave

[dragonfly]

There are not many apples that do well in this climate, but I have peach and plum trees and one small fig that I planted this year. I don't spray anything except when I have a problem with webworms, which is rare, then I use Bt. The worst pest problem I have with peaches is occasional stink bugs, but the bird population has been keeping the stink bug numbers down this year.

[dragonfly]

I have several fig trees I love. pests don't bother them and they seem to be quite drought tolerant
Dave

What variety of figs do you grow? This is the first year I've planted one, and it's reportedly difficult to find one that is freeze hardy. The one I planted is a Brown Turkey.

[drobbins]

mine are Brown Turkey
they do great around here, I took a dozen cuttings off my biggest one last March and some of them are 5 feet tall now:)
I'm pretty sure you don't have more of a frost than we do
I'm on the border of zone 7 and 8 here

Dave

[Hillside]

It may depend on your location, but around here, if I don't spray, I have a lot of damage from apple maggot. Coddling moths are also a problem. Fireblight hasn't been a big problem for me, but apple scab can get really out of control.

If I don't spray, the apples are good enough for apple sauce, pies, and such, but they're appearance is not good.

[SantaCruzBee]

I grow peaches, plums, nectarines, heritage apples, lots of citrus, avocados, etc., all organically. Local climate has a lot of influence on what you can or cannot do organically and I'd guess you're in a much more humid zone than I am. Some spraying is acceptable, in particular, I believe, that some sulfur based spraying for peach leaf curl is acceptable and of course Bt as was mentioned previously definitely is. I don't know that it's approved for organic control of pests on fruits and vegetables, but if you're not in the business of selling you're produce where that matters, I highly recommend Neem oil.

Neem is from the bark of the Neem tree native to India. It is used in all manner of ways in India and is highly effective against fungal diseases of plants. It has been in use for thousands of years and is part of the Ayurvedic Pharmacopeia. So humans have been using it as medicine and as an agricultural control for a long time. Neem oil can be purchased in garden centers for use on roses at least. I've used it on my fruit trees with good effect and believe it is safe and it is by definition organic, I'm just not sure it is approved for use on fruits and vegies, so if you're marketing them, you need to find out.

Doug

[dragonfly]

mine are Brown Turkey
they do great around here, I took a dozen cuttings off my biggest one last March and some of them are 5 feet tall now:)
I'm pretty sure you don't have more of a frost than we do
I'm on the border of zone 7 and 8 here

Dave

Pretty close. We are in zone 7b here. Thanks for the info. My little tree is just about 2 ft tall right now. I want some more for next year, so I may try a couple of cuttings myself.

[randydrivesabus]

Hey Randy, are you growing sweet cherries or sour?


the cherries are sweet cherries. I've had the trees for at least 15 years and this was my first crop. its tough to grow any fruit here because of the late spring frosts and freezes.

[cow pollinater]

I have peaches, plums, nectarines, pluots, apricots, apriums,walnuts, pecans, almonds and tons of citrus. All are organically grown because it is easier on me to do it that way. I dormant spray the stone fruit for leaf curl and that's about all I do for any of them except pruning. I've been able to handle most pest problems with beneficial insects from Buglogical and I have lots of birds so fertalizer is easy to come by.

[dcross]

I planted a Walmart pear tree a few years back, never had anything more than a little pruning and it's loaded for the first time. They all look pretty good.

I put in a pair of Har-something apricots two years ago, got a few the first year then one died out last winter but is growing from the rootstock, no fruits this year, only a few blossoms.

Started two Honeycrisps, a Granny Smith, an Intrepid and a Reliance peach this spring from Stark Bros.

Overall plan is to prune and fertilize, and eat ugly fruit:)

[Sundance]

I put in a pair of Har-something apricots two years ago, got a few the first year then one died out last winter but is growing from the rootstock, no fruits this year, only a few blossoms.




What kind of rootstock??? Marianna?? Usually the rootstock
will produce nasty fruit, but who knows???

[dcross]

What kind of rootstock??? Marianna?? Usually the rootstock
will produce nasty fruit, but who knows???

I have no idea, figured it might at least pollinate the remaining tree while I decide whether I want to buy a new one.

[beehoppers]

This is the first year that I have sprayed kaolin clay on peaches and apples (plus potatoes, beans) and had very good results. I guess the same thing is sold by Gardens Alive called Surround. The kaolin clay I buy is called Carotex and used by masons for stick on stone. 50# sells for about $10. I mix 2 cups per gallon and spray every 2 weeks.

[Michael Bush]

I have apples, cherries and pears. I never spray anything. I harvest a lot of pears from a very old pear tree. The cherry and apple tree are young and don't produce much yet, but they don't get eaten by the bugs.

[dcross]

Bump

Anyone have experience bagging apples for coddling moth? I want to try since I had a lot of them last year. Been reading up on trapping and mating disruption, but I'm surrounded by unmanaged trees.

How often would bt need to be applied for them?

[warrior]

Agreed on the untreated apples not being picture perfect. We always had apples and pears coming up and the apples would be stained and discolored and sometimes mishapen but for jelly and apple butter they were just fine. The pears came through woth flying colors but we only grew the old standby blight resistant hard pears (kieffer, sand, pineapple and various volunteers). Fire blight will eventually even get those here in the south but the trees will live a tough and hardy long life before age weakens them to the blight. Dad loves the soft pears and always had a bartlett or moonglow in some stage of dying from the blight. Those were good for a handful each year so dad could have a few for eating. We did almost everything with hard pears (canned, preserves, pickled, honey, relish you name it). Plums did fine but were short lived expect a decade maybe out of them. Never had cherries. Peaches for some reason seem to need alot more babying than I remember as a kid. Back then everyone had a peach tree or two in the yard and other than whitewashing the trunk nothing was done and barring a late freeze you got a fair to middling crop each year. The best of them was the old blood peach (red) that was only fit for pickling and next was the old white peach (type unknown). All those old trees are gone and to grow one today you have to set a schedule of spraying or else. Figs need no treatment whatsoever other than protecting them from freezes when young, no late pruning and keeping the mockingbirds from eating all your figs.

[Merlyn Votaw]

I have apple trees and the only thing I spray them is for Cedar Rust but I also have 14 peach trees that had worms last year.Does anyone know what I can spray my peach trees with with out getting a license to buy the spray.Sorry I planted the peaches because the frost gets them but don't want to quit now. They are 6 yrs old . Also have 12 pear trees but no problem with them.

[jkola404]

Bump

Anyone have experience bagging apples for coddling moth? I want to try since I had a lot of them last year. Been reading up on trapping and mating disruption, but I'm surrounded by unmanaged trees.

How often would bt need to be applied for them?


Yes bagging will work for coddling moth, you wont be able to save all of them but you should have a good success rate

[dcross]

Just regular brown paper lunch bags? Or maybe ziplocs... http://www.gordosoft.com/orchard/bagging.htm