well it's over and the winner is....Biden

[berkshire bee]

by a longshot. Listened on the radio. Palin didn't actually answer many questions, just kind of went off on what she probably rehearsed talking about

[BjornBee]

Shoot...I missed it. Been typing here... ;)

I guess I'll vote as I always do...based on core values. Not sure how one person spoke or who answered what really makes a difference to me. Sad when people forget who wants to take away their guns, or anything else that may be important to them.

I wonder how many people actually will decide a vote on a popularity contest and who was able to name more signers of the Bill of Rights or some other question. Pretty sad....if you think about it.

I bet Sarah was not half as bad as the media already had her out to be. ;)

[berkshire bee]

all other things aside, if that one heartbeat ever happened, it would be kind of scary to think that she would be in charge of the country. Her answers seemed to lack substance or real focus on the questions asked. I'm not saying there's anything bad about her, I just don't think she has what's needed to be a world leader or get us out of the domestic messes we're in.

[foresthillbilly]

Palin blew Biden out of the water.

[Derek]

I am half way though it. I have it on my dvr/tivo. So far she has not given one direct answer yet. Tired of it being paused now. Gotta get back to it.

[Derek]

Shoot...I missed it. Been typing here... ;)

I guess I'll vote as I always do...based on core values. Not sure how one person spoke or who answered what really makes a difference to me. Sad when people forget who wants to take away their guns, or anything else that may be important to them.

Seems that guns and religion statement holds true. ;)

[Eaglerock]

by a longshot. Listened on the radio. Palin didn't actually answer many questions, just kind of went off on what she probably rehearsed talking about

Palin did better than I thought. The creekside coaching did her good. Although she never answered any questions, she was better at the snowballing than anyone would have thought. The Moderator didn't, in my opinion, do a good job at going after her on that. Tim, if he was still alive, would have been all over her like bees on comb.

[Eaglerock]

Shoot...I missed it. Been typing here... ;)



I bet Sarah was not half as bad as the media already had her out to be. ;)

You really didn't miss much...one can listen to the main points and know what happened. I hope Tuesdays is better.

She did well with her coaching... Joe had a slow start, but came in better at the end. Palin stated that she agrees with cheney and thinks that the VP should have more control over the senate.

[JPK1NH]

I am half way though it. I have it on my dvr/tivo. So far she has not given one direct answer yet. Tired of it being paused now. Gotta get back to it.

Whoa Nelly!

Biden got the first question and it was a Yes/No question from the Mod......he proceeded to ignore the question and went into a monologue and never even touched upon the question asked.

This was his MO throughout the entire debate.

[randydrivesabus]

I thought Palin did better than I expected her to do. And while I'm not voting for her or McCain I don't think she would handle her presidency alone and would certainly have many advisors to help her out if the need arose. i don't agree with her beliefs but she speaks well and intelligently.

[Bodo]

It's certainly apparent that Biden is a lying politician (redundant?). Biden made 2 lies that I caught. First of all he DID say that there would be no clean coal in the US in that rope line. He's been opposed to coal his entire career, what's more believable?

Secondly, Obama DID say he would meet with the leaders of Iran without pre-conditions.

I just don't believe a thing that that man has to say.

[BjornBee]

Bodo,

I did catch a follow-up of the debate on Fox, and Fred Thompson, who I like, made notes while watching the debate. He had a list of things that he said Biden lied about. (He was in Washington with Biden). I did not make a note of them, but they are things I'm sure the mainstream media has quickly forgotten by this morning.

Truth and honesty.....means nothing. How Sarah articulated her sentences.....means everything to some. What a world we live in. And we have the gall and audacity to expect much from Washington. We are fools, electing fools, and getting fooled, by fools, who fool us, while expecting the fools not to fool us, which makes us bigger fools.

[tecumseh]

bjorn writes:
We are fools, electing fools, and getting fooled, by fools, who fool us, while expecting the fools not to fool us, which makes us bigger fools.

tecumseh ask:
speaking from personal experience bjorn?

you do appear to be quite experienced in regards to this issue of fools... tell us more... curious cats got to know!

and why should truth and honesty be important when character destruction, thinly disguised racism and most importantly fear, fear, fear has worked so well for so long?

finally... I am still waiting for mrs palin to answer one question... not one particular question but any question. I am not certain whether her or mr rice is more adept at talking all around a question. circumlocation does seem to be both's one real talent.

[MapMan]

It's certainly apparent that Biden is a lying politician (redundant?). Biden made 2 lies that I caught. First of all he DID say that there would be no clean coal in the US in that rope line. He's been opposed to coal his entire career, what's more believable?

Secondly, Obama DID say he would meet with the leaders of Iran without pre-conditions.

I just don't believe a thing that that man has to say.

Yes, you can see it in Biden's body language - he was lying throughout the debate! Lists on the 'net count 14, I personally noted 8 lies/overstatements.

1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.

2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.

3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”

4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.

5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.

6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.

7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false

8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.

9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.

10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.

11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.

12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.

13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”

14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.



Oh, can you tell me what a "Bosniac" is?:scratch:

MM

[BjornBee]

Thank you for that post MM. ;)

[Sundance]

Palin did a great job. She did evade several questions
by reverting to the ol' political banter, but that is
politics. It is obvious she does much better with a
number of days of coaching that direct interviews
with no prep.

[beegee]

The heartbeat argument is spurious. I'd rather have an experienced executive who can think on his or her feet as VP, realizes he or she doesn't have all the answers, but has the resources to find out, than have a President like this:

Unsure if he's Black or White and from where his perspective originates
Unsure if he's Muslim or Christian and to whom his spiritual allegiance flows
Has no foreign policy experience except for osmosis in the Senate.
Self-proclaimed "citizen of the world" (I want my President to be an All-American)
Has no private sector business experience
Has no military experience
Has no practical experience in running a government.
Has spent his entire Senate career campaigning for President
Arrogant to the point of thinking HE is THE answer
Openly associated with radicals, socialists, anarchists, racists
Embraces socialist ideals:bigger government, universal health care, redistribution of wealth, gun control(or ammunition control)

I return to the question who has the most to gain from this election? McCain could retire to his ranch tomorrow and never miss a thing. He has a record of service and dedication. he doesn't need the job.

Obama is openly ambitious, overly-eager to promote his personal agenda and virtually unknown before his speech at the Dem convention. He's power-hungry...to what end we don't know yet. You don't have to be an Einstein to figure it out.

The sad part is that there will be millions voting for him only because he is Black(?), or only because he is not George Bush. Millions of idealistic college students will vote for him because he's not an old white guy. Others will vote for him because they think the Democrat Party of 2008 is the same party as the Democrat Party of 1960. Sad....

[sqkcrk]

The sad part is that there will be millions voting for him only because he is Black(?), or only because he is not George Bush. Millions of idealistic college students will vote for him because he's not an old white guy. Others will vote for him because they think the Democrat Party of 2008 is the same party as the Democrat Party of 1960. Sad....

And there are those who will vote for McCain because he isn't a Moslem, because he is a Republican (sorta), because he is a white man, and because he is George Bush, w/ a running mate who is George Bush in a dress. Or maybe a cross between George Bush and Dick Cheney. Shiver.

But most will vote for him because they believe in his policies. Some would have us believe.

Even though the only reason he is running on the Republican ticket (the Party that he is so Maverick from) is because if he ran as an Independent he'd loose for sure. If he's such a Maverick, why doesn't he break away from his own Party?

[Oldbee]

I think Sarah did well.

Public speaking has not been my 'forte',..so my heart went out to her as a 'relative novice' in this situation. I am sure she will do MUCH better in the near future. After all, a vice-president is just that, right? Are we going to vote for a 'vice-president' or the president? Get over it.

[pcelar]

Palin flub on bankruptcy has McCain camp flailing
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/palin-misstates.html

Delicious. The ABC story includes the always-enjoyable line, "The McCain campaign confirms to ABC News that Palin misstated McCain's position."

[sqkcrk]

Public speaking has not been my 'forte',..so my heart went out to her as a 'relative novice' in this situation.

Not her forte? She has a degree in jornalism and she was a sportscaster. Haven't you seen any of the footage of the daebates that she was in in Alaska? If you feel sorry for her because she is a "relative novice", I think you've been taken in by her.

[walking bird]

As far as the "lying" or misstatement of facts go, they did a quick follow-up immediately following the debate, and the LA Times did a more thorough exam the next day.

As it turns out, both candidates were equally adept at playing fast and loose with the facts. From that standpoint, it was a dead heat.

Which is too bad, because they didn't need to do that. Just comparing and contrasting their views would've been fine, because I think we may finally have an election where the candidates present some substantially different positions.

Although by now, I'm sure that all the political parties are going to team up and take away Bjorn's guns. His obsession with that point is getting a little scary :)

[Keith Benson]

We are fools, electing fools, and getting fooled, by fools, who fool us, while expecting the fools not to fool us, which makes us bigger fools.

No foolin' . . .

Keith

[Oldbee]

I didn't realize this comment was made about mine until today.

'Not her 'forte',..........? - sqkcrk.

I,..... DIDN'T say that! I am 'speechless'. Is it any wonder that some of us get comfused,...on Tailgater.

[sqkcrk]

I didn't realize this comment was made about mine until today.

'Not her 'forte',..........? - sqkcrk.

I,..... DIDN'T say that! I am 'speechless'. Is it any wonder that some of us get comfused,...on Tailgater.

You didn't? It was posted under your name. Were you quoting someone? If so, maybe you could make that clear in the future? And if you weren't and didn't, why did you respond?

Oops, sorry. I reread what you wrote. Public speaking is not YOUR forte. I get it. But it is hers. So the rest still applys.

[Oldbee]

Geraldine Ferraro was the vice presidential running mate of Walter Mondale [DEM] in1984, and as far as I can tell, was NOT any more qualified to be the vice-president than Sarah Palin is today.

It is unfortunate that perhaps the 'best and brightest' do not 'campaign' for a public office like president or VP. today, but that is the reality of this huge monstrosity [I think] and EXPENSIVE race for the presidency every four years. Ron Paul and Ralph Nader that have all the answers; I could never bring myself to vote for them, ever.

It is also 'unfortunate' that the most important 'qualifications' for a person running for President or VP. is the ability to speak intelligently in public in a high pressure situation, shake hands, smile alot, and,.....talk nonsense at the same time.

Condoleezza Rice is one of those women in public office that I respect as a potential candidate for president [don't give me no lecture about her political 'affiliations'] but I doubt she will ever do that; not the type, unfortunately.