Apiguard causes robbing!

[BEES4U]

I have been feeding thymolated syrup and I noticed that when I drove into the yard that the bees were searching all over my truck. I had placed a small piece of the aluminum sided cardboard with a small amount of Apiguard on it from the last application that was thrown out the entrance by the bees. At first I dismissed the observation. I thought to myself about why would the bees be attracted to my foam coffee cup? I counted over 27 bees in the cup. I had tossed the Apiguard cardboard into the cup. It was onley about one square inch in size.
Two days later I opened an Apiguard tub to apply a 1/2 dose to a single brood chamber hive and a double hive. The robber bees did not become attracted to the tub untile I removed the shrink wrap and lid. :mad: Then all purgatory broke lose! The robbing bees landed on the top of the Apiguard as I was mixing it as per instructions and piled up about an inch deep around the bottom of the tub!
The next morning I checked to see how the 1/2 dose was working as I did not want the bees to abscond and the robbing was furious all around the single and the double. Both hives had entrances reduced to one inch to prevent robbing
It's obvious that the robber bees became conditioned to seek a free meal by the smell of thymol.
I have a queen mating nuc yard within 50' of the robbing and they were unscathed!.:)
I hope this helps to inform you about Apiguard and thymolated syrup.
Regards,
Ernie Lucas Apiaries

[beemandan]

It's obvious that the robber bees became conditioned to seek a free meal by the smell of thymol.

Having used Apiguard in about a hundred hives over the last couple of seasons I havn't ever seen anything like you did. I believe that you're probably right that it is some sort of conditioning. Do you have any thoughts as to how that conditioning might have occurred?

[BjornBee]

So you blame this on Apiguard. Wow. Great slam on the product.

I see it a different way....but lets just leave it at that.

So tell me...where did you buy thymolated syrup made by apiguard?

[beemandan]

Do you have any thoughts as to how that conditioning might have occurred?

I think I do know the answer to my own question. I just didn't read the original post closely enough.

[BjornBee]

I also see how the conditioning of the bees to associate feed with the smell of thymol was the real factor. I'm just wondering how you can title a post "apiguard causes robbing". Apiguard had nothing to do with "why" the bees robbed. And to the casual reader, its the headline that stands out, and perhaps will view this thread with negative views towards the product apiguard.

"Thymol conditioning causes robbing" perhaps is a bit more the truth.

[ScadsOBees]

So now start moving from thymolated syrup to syrup mixed with various types of explosives.

Then sell them to the department of homeland security for $10,000 per hive....

Shucks...don't need tasers to take the terrorists down! How about 1000 bees?

:)

It is all fascinating, nonetheless. I applied to all my hive at the same time so that wasn't a problem.

[BEES4U]

The condition response was in the syrup that contained thymol. It was fed in one gallon buckets.
Ernie

[BEES4U]

Containers filled with bees have been used as bee bombs on the enemy.
We could over spray the enemy with lemongraas syrup and then release the bees.
LOL
Ernie

[BEES4U]

Well as usual Mr. "B" wants to critique a topic.
I saw, I observed, I recorded and I warned others about the thymol issue.
Ernie

[BEES4U]

If you would read the posting I stated that the bees had been fed thymolated syrup,
Ernie

[BjornBee]

If you would read the posting I stated that the bees had been fed thymolated syrup,
Ernie


I recognized the fact that the bees associated thymol with feed.

But apiguard is the name of a product. It was not apiguard's name, or their product, that caused this situation.

And there is a world of difference in the meaning by saying "Apiguard causes Robbing" and "Apiguard caused robbing!".

Ernie...stay with me. I'll post a thread and see if you can see what I'm talking about.

[ScadsOBees]

Forget robbing.

I think you just found a way to treat a hive without cracking a lid!

[Tom G. Laury]

Ernie thanks for all your sharing of information and experience. Since I joined I haven't seen anyone else so helpful and considerate.

[beemandan]

Ernie thanks for all your sharing of information and experience. Since I joined I haven't seen anyone else so helpful and considerate.

I'm going to have to agree with BB. This isn't about Ernie's helpfulness. In fact his good reputation makes it worse. Some busy beeks may just look at the subject, see it was written by Ernie and based on his reputation take it at face value.

BB's complaint is about a poor choice in subject line. Its pretty hard for me to see how anyone could blame Apiguard for the robbing.
A better subject might have been 'Don't feed thymolated syrup before using Apiguard'

[BEES4U]

I would suggest that you try feeding some thmolated syrup 1st and then apply the Apiguard 2nd.

Make an observation and then a deduction. Perhaps you will see the trigeering of robbing by the stronger percentage of thymol as it fumes the hive.
Do you use Apiguard or thymolated syrup?
Ernie

[beemandan]

Do you use Apiguard or thymolated syrup?

I use Apiguard only. Never prompted a robbing frenzy.

So, Ernie, you didn't think my suggested subject line would have been more appropriate?

[BjornBee]

I'm going to have to agree with BB. This isn't about Ernie's helpfulness. In fact his good reputation makes it worse. Some busy beeks may just look at the subject, see it was written by Ernie and based on his reputation take it at face value.

BB's complaint is about a poor choice in subject line. Its pretty hard for me to see how anyone could blame Apiguard for the robbing.
A better subject might have been 'Don't feed thymolated syrup before using Apiguard'


Give it up beeman. It's no use. ;)

[BEES4U]

No brand name,s. included or endorsed except to clearify data.
Let us see if we can agree on the following:
Mite control reduces the winter cluster.
Mite control causes absconding.
Mite control is reduced at low temperatures.
Mite control is temperature dependent.
Mite control of bees is correlated to the owners knowledge of grams or ml per application.
Mite control causes queen loss.
No mite control causes winter losses.

Regards,
Ernie

[BjornBee]

If thats directed at me Ernie...I'll have to pass, on any agreement.

I have found out that since I don't use mite controls, (of course we need to define mite controls on your end)...anyways, with no treatments....my clusters are bigger, I have healthy bees, temperature is not a concern, etc.

And I must say,,, that was the biggest "subject change" I have seen in awhile.

My bees without mite control (treatments) are chemical free, have clean comb, and are doing great. Since getting off treatments, I have seen a fraction of the losses that I once had, and a fraction of those who sit and cry the blues (while discussing this years treatments), at the bee meetings I attend.

The money I now save on treatments, goes into other areas such as requeening and other IPM efforts, that produce positive results and pay for themselves. Treatments cost money now in product and labor, and many times, cost a whole lot more down the road.

So no Ernie, I can't really agree with about anything you just said. ;)

[beemandan]

Ernie, I'm not going to copy your entire list. Frankly, if its directed at me, I don't have any idea how it fits in with this discussion. Maybe I'm just too dumb.
I only asked a simple question.
You didn't think my suggested subject line would have been more appropriate?

[beemandan]

Boy, am I ever riled. Over the past couple of days I've applied my second ApiGuard treatment to about 50 hives. Not a single robbing event. Nada. Not this time nor the last one. And we are surely in a dearth. I tried to figure out what I did wrong and then realized that it probably wasn't me. I'm betting that Dadant sent me a defective batch of ApiGuard. I'm going to give them a call right now and demand a refund.