Tailgater 2

[Barry]

Vote for one. I'll stay out of this one!

[Barry]

And they're off, Negative and No Impact running neck and neck, with Quality still in the starting gate! :D

[BULLSEYE BILL]

I get to vote on this one! I couldn't on the other one. :(

[Romahawk]

Ditto !!!!!!

[Oldbee]

I suppose it [Tailgater] is a forum for those who want to express their,,..'opinion' about such things. There are many beekeepers all over the country who have many divergent ideas about what,..'direction' our country should go in the next 4-8 years. I am happy to hear them, tho I might not always agree; I mostly keep my [internet] mouth shut.

[chief]

I haven’t and don't plan to use tailgater. I agree with the folks that don't believe a beekeeping forum should be anything other than just that. I would suggest that if people want to discuss ANYTHING other than valid beekeeping issues they can simply go to another forum. I see the hate and contention that is fostered in the tailgater forum spill over to all the other forums. I am afraid human nature is such that if you disagree on things like religion and politics then you will have a hard time agreeing on beekeeping. I see this happen all the time at work and in the family. Get rid of the tailgater.

[Lee Womack]

I use this forum to get information on Bee Keeping, not Politics, Religion nor other things like rebuilding a motor. If you want to talk about other things then go to that forum and let us talk about the Ladies without other disruptions. My opinion is that if you want to talk about something other than Bee Keeping then take your soapbox elsewhere!:rolleyes:

[BjornBee]

This poll is tainted and bogus. A simple search of a couple people claiming to "never read or participate" in tailgater are liars. Sorry if that sound tough. But fibbing and bending the truth does not apply.

A simple search of the profiles (bring up "list of all posts) of a couple people who claimed to never read and/or never participate in tailgater simply proves that they are lying.

So much for the high and mighty claiming "I'm too good for tailgater". It might be the message....but its tainted with lies!

[Eaglerock]

I haven’t and don't plan to use tailgater. I agree with the folks that don't believe a beekeeping forum should be anything other than just that. I would suggest that if people want to discuss ANYTHING other than valid beekeeping issues they can simply go to another forum. I see the hate and contention that is fostered in the tailgater forum spill over to all the other forums. I am afraid human nature is such that if you disagree on things like religion and politics then you will have a hard time agreeing on beekeeping. I see this happen all the time at work and in the family. Get rid of the tailgater.

I agree, and some are really getting mad about this issue and it is coming out in their views they are posting, wanting to keep it. But on the other hand they come here too, so I feel that tailgate should remain, but only as another page and not in "New Posts". BTW I told two people about this site and they never thought Beekeepers were like we have been in tailgate. I was a little embarrassed. Most people think of Beekeepers as special people, calm and nice, because we can handle bees and they don't bother us.
I have been lucky this year... I haven't been stung. :D

[Eaglerock]

I use this forum to get information on Bee Keeping, not Politics, Religion nor other things like rebuilding a motor. If you want to talk about other things then go to that forum and let us talk about the Ladies without other disruptions. My opinion is that if you want to talk about something other than Bee Keeping then take your soapbox elsewhere!:rolleyes:

I can appreciate that, but these are their friends, and who else to talk about rebuilding a motor or fixing something, than their friends.
I don't agree with Bjornbee most of the time, however, having said that, he has every right to talk to his friends about whatever he would feel the need to.
I feel that it should be posted on another page, a click away, for those wanting to go, can, and those not wanting it to be in their "New Post" list, that it will not be.

[Barry]

I feel that tailgate should remain, but only as another page and not in "New Posts".

This just isn't going to happen. Not a function I can implement. Think about it. As a software engineer developing a functionality of a discussion board called "new posts", why would there be a need to further control this to mean "selected new posts"? If you start making every function of the board customizable to every possible whim of every member, your program/software would be off the charts in size, cost, complexity, time, etc. New posts are new posts. Should we be able to view new posts alphabetically too? How about organized according to user name? The list is endless. At some point, we each must use our own super computer and simply select that part of beesource we want to engage with and ignore the rest. The polls already show that members here cover the full spectrum. Unless the polls take a drastic turn, they indicate that the majority feel Tailgater has a place here, serves a purpose, and that it should remain as is. That is my gut feeling as well, although at times I do tire of moderating it (I think the other moderators do as well and I'm very conscience of the time they give to moderating this forum). There are days it wouldn't take much to talk me into deleting the forum, but I remind myself that as a moderator, I have to basically read every post, but members can choose to ignore the forum altogether.

Let me just say how grateful I am to have Barry D. and Dave V. comoderating Tailgater. It would be a mess without them. I can hear some say "it's a mess either way." :D

[Dave W]

I would like to be able to "turn off" ALL "Tailgaiter" posts when viewing "Todays Post".

My (limited) interest is in BEES :)

[Eaglerock]

This just isn't going to happen. Not a function I can implement. That is my gut feeling as well, although at times I do tire of moderating it (I think the other moderators do as well and I'm very conscience of the time they give to moderating this forum). There are days it wouldn't take much to talk me into deleting the forum, but I remind myself that as a moderator, I have to basically read every post, but members can choose to ignore the forum altogether.

Let me just say how grateful I am to have Barry D. and Dave V. comoderating Tailgater. It would be a mess without them. I can hear some say "it's a mess either way." :D

I have to say Barry, that if it was me I would wonder... wonder if I would go nuts. I know that all the ones that help you do a wonderful job. I am sure you are more than just grateful, because with out them helping you, YOU would go nuts.

After my last posting I was doing some title work for a trucking company, and something he said made me think about this forum. After he left, I was wondering if you could even do it, let alone even wanting too. If it was my choice, I wouldn't want to even bother. I just wouldn't. Although, I don't totally agree, I to would say, just leave things as they are. The only thing is some should be told to watch name calling. But everyone is welcome to call me anything... Just not late for Beekeeping.

[Hillside]

Overall, it keeps most of the garbage off the regular forums. I read a fair amount of tailgater but only post to a very small part. Most of it is too ridiculous to take seriously.

edit:

I'm very impressed with the number of postings some people are able to type up. I don't know how they can possibly do anything with their lives other than post to tailgater!

[iddee]

>>>>Most of it is too ridiculous to take seriously.<<<<

You can say that again.

>>>>Most of it is too ridiculous to take seriously.<<<<

That's why I like it. Just a lot of fun, with very little substance. :)

Kinda like myself.

[Hobie]

For crying out loud, there is a column under "new posts" that tells you the forum under which it is posted. If it says "Tailgater," skip it if you don't want it. So you have three pages of "new posts" instead of two, that's one extra mouse click, big deal.

I am on a sailing forum as well. Recently somone posted because honeybees had moved into his sailboat hull. I was able to help out with some advice. That kind of thing really brings people together, in my opinion.

[Eaglerock]

[QUOTE=Hobie;352591]For crying out loud, there is a column under "new posts" that tells you the forum under which it is posted. If it says "Tailgater," skip it if you don't want it. So you have three pages of "new posts" instead of two, that's one extra mouse click, big deal.

[QUOTE]


I have to agree, except the crying out loud part (it makes my dogs go nuts if I cry out loud), the one column does state what forum it is under.

[magnet-man]

Unless the polls take a drastic turn, they indicate that the majority feel Tailgater has a place here, serves a purpose, and that it should remain as is. That is my gut feeling as well

Barry, I don't think you have a majority that think that way. A majority is greater than 50%. As of this writing only 39% feels it adds to the overall quality of Beesource, while 32% think it hurts Beesource. Grant it a larger percentage think it improves, but is it because the negativity of tailgater has driven some members away for good and will continue to do so?

Also 39% of the people responding said they would post (participate) in tailgater if it wasn't for the R&P. 39% is not a small minority.

I think the results of the two poll shows there is a real need to at least split tailgater into two parts. Make one "Politics and Religion" and the other one "Other Hobbies" or "Odds and Ends". If you no one want to moderate it, I would be more than happy to do so.

[BjornBee]

Yeah...me and magnet-man can do the job!

[raybmn]

Hi all,

I feel things are fine the way it is. It's like when you go to almost any store, when you are checking out there is alot of stuff on the shelves that you must pass by. Some of it might be stuff you are not interested in. So you just walk right on by and don't buy it. Should there be special checkout lanes for those that might not like all that is presented? People have the right to not buy what they don't like. Same goes for the forum. Just don't read what you don't want to read. Pretty simple I think. Some make it sound like just because they see that there are new posts in the Tailgater section that they are pulled into that part of the forum against their free will. I do believe that noone enters it without first making their personal choice to do so. That extra click is already in place to get there, unless others get the forum in a different manner than I do.

Take care all,
Ray B.

[GRIMBEE]

I look at tailgator 1% of the time, if that when I visit Beesource.
Ahhhh the minds of beekeepers 61 votes and its neck and neck with all 3 basically.

[Joel]

Reading tailgater helps me decide whether the advise I am reading on other threads is coming from someone who is a conservative, which I immediately disregard (Bjorn is the exception to this rule), a moderate who I'll then do some further research and make an informed opinion or a liberal who I know has already read three books on the subject, done their on line research and would not lead me astray! :)

Seriously though, I appreciate and learn from all the points of view expressed on tailgater. Although I don't come here in search of that aspect I find myself frequently reading through threads and adding what I find here, often from people I've come to respect and like. I think our on a personal basis our individual bias is evident and often I would trust that over what the pundits feed us every day through various media. Some days it gets a little hostile but on the whole I wade through that for good information.

[Barry]

Barry, I don't think you have a majority that think that way. A majority is greater than 50%. As of this writing only 39% feels it adds to the overall quality of Beesource, while 32% think it hurts Beesource. Grant it a larger percentage think it improves, but is it because the negativity of tailgater has driven some members away for good and will continue to do so?

Those that feel tailgater has no impact on the overall quality of Beesource can hardly be applied to either side of the issue. It comes down to 27% against and 43% in favor of tailgater. That's what I call a majority.

Also 39% of the people responding said they would post (participate) in tailgater if it wasn't for the R&P. 39% is not a small minority.

No it isn't. Yet as it has so well been explained, one has to choose to be part of the P&R discussions, so what is prohibiting anyone to start or participate in a non P&R topic and avoid the other?

I think the results of the two poll shows there is a real need to at least split tailgater into two parts. Make one "Politics and Religion" and the other one "Other Hobbies" or "Odds and Ends". If you no one want to moderate it, I would be more than happy to do so.

It seems silly to me to break up the forum into two groups because as it is now, the user can already do that by simply choosing which thread they want to read and reply to within tailgater. If we break it up into two groups, you now put the burden and responsibility of sorting it out on to the three moderators. You give up some of your freedom to choose. The numbers just don't support getting rid of tailgater and there is some support to make it two groups. Let me do one more poll about this and see.

[chief]

This poll is tainted and bogus. A simple search of a couple people claiming to "never read or participate" in tailgater are liars. Sorry if that sound tough. But fibbing and bending the truth does not apply.

A simple search of the profiles (bring up "list of all posts) of a couple people who claimed to never read and/or never participate in tailgater simply proves that they are lying.

So much for the high and mighty claiming "I'm too good for tailgater". It might be the message....but its tainted with lies!

Because this was posted right after my post claiming I don’t participate in the tailgater forum and so I am not lumped into the group of “liars” . . . I maintain that “I haven’t and don’t plan to use the tailgater.” I find that it is more than a total waste of the beesource resources. It causes dysfunction and allows hostility and anger to spill over into all of the other forums. I believe if it were eliminated people like me could come to beesourse and find what they are looking for . . . pertinent information on beekeeping issues and nothing more. I am afraid it would make the site really boring to those of you who banter on constantly about nothing and perhaps some would frequent the site less. GREAT! I see that as a good thing as it would refocus this site on what it was designed for . . . BEEKEEPING. If you are bored of talking about beekeeping issues move on to another forum. Try a forum like your local bar stool or start a blog. I repeat for those of you who say to just ignore the tailgater section of the forum . . . the hostility garnered in the tailgater spills over and taints the ENTIRE forum.

[Bodo]

the hostility garnered in the tailgater spills over and taints the ENTIRE forum

I haven't seen this at all. I see people that don't 'get along' on Tailgater offering helpful advice on other forums...

[BjornBee]

Chief...you are a lying again! Your post was #7 and the post you said "came right after your's was #9. It did not come right after yours. #8 did!

Ok, settle down. Just joking. ;) I did not lump all together. A said a "couple". There were more than a couple who claimed that. A couple also had not made a false claim. (you being one of them) There you go, now you can be in the "other" grouping. ;)

You really need to stay up on this. This post was way back on page one....which seemed to be a week ago! ;)

[BjornBee]

I haven't seen this at all. I see people that don't 'get along' on Tailgater offering helpful advice on other forums...

I agree! Here is a thread from yesterday and today, featuring a conversation between MIKI and myself. Imagine that! ;)

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222417

[chief]

BjornBee,

I don't have time to sit on this forum all day. Only the days I am at work. :)

[magnet-man]

No it isn't. Yet as it has so well been explained, one has to choose to be part of the P&R discussions, so what is prohibiting anyone to start or participate in a non P&R topic and avoid the other?

To expand an example already used on this topic. Say we have a video store that has the back room for adult titles. What would happen to rentals of family oriented titles if they were put in the back room with the adult titles. To rent a family video you still have to go into a room that many people find distastefully. 37% of the voters find the R&P distastefully enough not to post in tailgater. I suspect they don't spend much if any time in tailgater.

[sqkcrk]

To rent a family video you still have to go into a room that many people find distastefully. 37% of the voters find the R&P distastefully enough not to post in tailgater.

So are you saying that people are disgusted by Tailgater Thread Titles? That they find Tailgater Thread Titles distasteful? And are having bad reactions from seeing these titles on the List of Todays Posts?

I didn't realize that.

[magnet-man]

So are you saying that people are disgusted by Tailgater Thread Titles?

I don't know. I just know that 37% would post if P&R was not in tailgater, I don't know if it is the titles or just the knowledge of the possible ugliness that might be lurking behind the titles. There must be something there that affect 37%.

Barry says it will be more work to monitor another forum. It likely would be because more people would participate. On the other hand an "Odds and Ends" forum would likely not have to be moderated as much as Tailgater requires. That is my opinion and there is no way to prove it but to try it out.

[chief]

You will never know exactly where the tread is headed just by the title in a no holds barred tailgater. I think what magnetman is getting at is that you would know it is not headed towards religion and politics in a non religion and politics forum. If you were on a religion and politics forum then it would or at least could contain R&P. So many people on this forum like to talk about so many things off the topic of bees I cant see why there is resistance to adding yet another forum that takes beesoruce even further away from its purpose. With that comment I will restate what I have already said . . . Get rid of the tailgater altogether.

[dhood]

Barry, I just had an idea. If your interested in seperating the two, but dont want to make a tailgater 2. You could put an R&P icon on the bottom where you choose smileys, ect. When the new post lists, there would be an R&P icon to the left. And those who choose not to read can skip that message. As I have posted before, I don't read any usually unless the title sounds interesting in tailgater, and I've never read anything that made me think that there was a problem. Pretty clean site (Thankyou). Just thought that I would offer this idea, if it is an issue that bothers you, maybe it will save you some time. thanks, Daniel

[Barry]

Interesting idea Daniel. I'll give it some thought.