PDA

View Full Version : setting up a hot room for supers



mendocino queen honey
09-06-2008, 11:48 AM
Im thinking of a insulated booth with some kind of safe heating device in it. To store supers in before extraction. It wasnt really a problem before- becase I just extracted them while they were still warm during late summer.
Now things are really starting to back up. Were moving ever closer to a moove automated honey house Meaning settling tanks an pump inline from the extractors. Any ideas about the setting up and efficacy of such a room?


Matt

high rate of speed
09-06-2008, 02:18 PM
hey Matt,we dont have any sort of insulated room in California,but if you feel that you need one,in floor heat ran by an electric boilier is the only way to go.

RDY-B
09-06-2008, 04:42 PM
Maybe 3 inch rigid insulation from roofing supply house-4 sheets use 1 for each side and top- cut one in half for the ends-these sheets are 4x8-Maybe a inexpensive oil filled vertical heater -I see them for under a hundred bucks and they are programable and you can move them around -Maybe use inexpensive furniture dollies to stack suppers on six to a stack you will be able to roll at least four stacks in with ease and put heater in center-now you have 24 suppers inside -that is enough for you and the small extractor you are talking about -for a day -spin the boxes and put in another 24 for tomorrow -you can make the hot box smaller if needed -hot box for operation your size only takes up a small space in the honey house and dose not need to be permanent but i guess it could be -RDY-B

Ian
09-06-2008, 05:50 PM
I did use a hot room, kind of still do, but I have tried to get rid of the walls, and just heat the whole honeyhouse. It may seem costly, but it makes the most sence. Open space is the way to go, and it keeps your equipment warm and easier to use. The honey flows much better.

jjgbee
09-06-2008, 11:58 PM
I used copper pipes under a 1/4 aluminum plate. Heat source was a 20ga hot water heater with a home 1/4 hp hot water recirculator. Control was with a GE solid state thermostat hooked to a hydronic on and off valve and pump switch. The box was made of 3in insulation boards my box was 8x8ft and 4ft high. One side and lid lifted to put stacks in and out. Most of this equip is surplus behind my barn now.

jjgbee
09-07-2008, 12:15 AM
When I was extracting in my garage. I used 2 sheets 4x8 insulation board sides, and 1 sheet cut into 1ea 2x8 top and 2ea 2x4 ends. The ends had 10 in air cond duct flanges attached to them. Inlet on bottom outlet on top of end pieces. An electric heater was in an insulated box in the attic area with flex rir cond ducts hanging down to attach to the heating box. The box would hold 6 stacks of 6 medium supers. The sides and ends are assembled and held together by way of coil extension springs and gas welding rod fasioned into hooks. Once the box warmed the elect heater did not use much energy and the fan in the heater continually circulated the heat through the hot box. Heat had to be brought up slowly or I would melt the first stack of boxes

Michael Palmer
09-07-2008, 06:55 AM
Im thinking of a insulated booth with some kind of safe heating device in it. To store supers in before extraction. Any ideas about the setting up and efficacy of such a room?

Mine is a 10x30 room on the upper level of my honey house. Has extra radiant heating tubes in the slab, and runs off my boiler. I can set the temperature of the room at the required temperature...100 for supers/pre-extraction, or 120 for liquifying drums of honey. The room holds 4 or 5 days of harvest, or 50+ drums of honey. Drums of crystallized melt in about a week.

Swobee
09-07-2008, 04:29 PM
Matt - You're going to continue getting a wide variety of answers and every one will be good, correct, or even perfect... but maybe not for you. A few details, such as how many supers need storing, what fuel sources are available, what skill levels you have with plumbing, electronics & carpentry, etc. will all help.

You've gotten great advice for storing a handful of supers to storing dozens or even a few hundred. I like the variety of answers, because it goes along with what I do for a living and some day I'd like to write up a list of energy conserving options and considerations for bee keepers of various budgets.

But, if you want to narrow the assortment of advice to things more workable for your operation, then give us more information.

Meanwhile, as I said, I apreciate the variety of answers. Not everyone can afford to operate electric boilers due to local energy costs or capacity at their buildings' services; not everyone desires some of the potential safety problems using an electric heater in a highly combustible 'box'; not everyone is handy enough or understands the principles of heat transfer and conservation well enough to home-make a quality heating apparatus. Some of us are more than capable, on the other hand.

J-Bees
09-07-2008, 05:49 PM
hey Matt,we dont have any sort of insulated room in California,but if you feel that you need one,in floor heat ran by an electric boilier is the only way to go.

3/4" pipe in the floor ran off of a hot water heater set on high.

forgot to add that you can also look for a large icebox like the restrants use to keep food fresh........ it don't have to work anylonger as you will be going the other way.

mendocino queen honey
09-07-2008, 11:39 PM
boy oh boy! great variety of suggestions. Well to start with I have up to 150 mediums at this time. I can do very basic plumbing and not much electical.

Im leaning toward the more passive, low wattage aproach. I have ordered a new dadant 20 extractor. so doing batches of 60 in the hotroom should be ok for now. Im thinking about a 5x5 framed and insulated drywall with some very safe heat source. Maybe two 100 watt bulbs. For now i dont have a dedicated honeyhouse. so im out in the shop. probably wont be pouring concrete for this project.

Sunshine
09-08-2008, 03:38 PM
For a small space as you're describing, you might try Tractor Supply or other farm supply place for a couple of the heat bulbs and utility fixtures used to warm poultry and livestock. Easy, inexpensive, and effective. We have no trouble keeping a giant size dog house around 80-85 degrees for newborn goats during the kidding season, even with an open front and in freezing weather. I'm sure an enclosed area or closet would get warmer. You could also place one of the flood lights directly over your uncapping tank or extractor to help keep the honey from cooling while you work.

Tom G. Laury
09-08-2008, 05:19 PM
As mentioned prev posts: For a room big enough for 150 mediums, be sure to have a fan for circulating the warm air, like at the ceiling pointing down. Otherwise you'll have quite a temp diff between top & bottom.

Fuzzy
09-08-2008, 10:48 PM
Matt,

Please understand that I am not trying to discourage you here but only trying to have you think this through before you begin.
In my experience I get an average leakage (honey) of 1 quart per 2 supers while warming. It is sometimes double that amount. You are going to be warming 60 supers so you may get 30-60 quarts of honey leaking out the bottom. Where does it go?? That is 7-14 gallons lying on the floor that you have to walk through. I had a catch pan set up but two weeks ago it overflowed and left a gallon on my concrete. UGLY !!

As for the heating…. I may not be correct but I think that I am close. To heat 1800 lbs of honey from 68f to 98f should take about 19 million calories. After searching for formulas I find that a 100watt bulb should consume aprox 1400 calories/min (neglecting that it is only 70% efficient at heat conversion). You would need about 220hrs to completely heat the honey (if you are completely insulated and the floor doesn’t rob heat). Two bulbs would cut the time in half. Four bulbs would get it down to 3 days.
But personally, I would not want the air temp to go above 110 for fear of a total melt down so I would insist on a thermostat that cuts out at that temp. This will delay the heating process that I cannot estimate how long it will take.

Regards – Fuzzy

KQ6AR
09-09-2008, 07:05 PM
Besides the bulbs, pig heat mats might help speed things up.
They come in a lot of different sizes, & are very durable.

Melisseus
09-24-2008, 08:25 AM
Food for thought my Brother,

You realize the downside to the hot room is that the honey can't be labelled raw anymore. Don't know if you have it labeled that way now... Gotta keep those organic active enzymes a 'jumpin.

Also, in my opinion, "organic" and "Raw" go together. Like, man, what's the point of "organic" honey, if it's not raw? That's how I roll anyway.

-Mel.

iddee
09-24-2008, 08:33 AM
Melisseus, hot room is 90 to 100 degrees. Honey is raw until it goes above 125 degrees. Different as apples and oranges.

Melisseus
09-24-2008, 09:10 AM
RAW HONEY: honey as it exists in the beehive or as obtained by extraction, settling, or straining without adding heat.

swarm_trapper
09-24-2008, 09:39 AM
so it never gets 90 to 100 degrees inside your bee hive? even in the cold north we will get those kinda of temps. Nick

Dan Williamson
09-24-2008, 09:42 AM
The bees at many times in the summer are trying to LOWER the temp of the hive from 100 degrees to a cooler temp. I've read where temps recorded in hives have been 100deg F.

swarm_trapper
09-24-2008, 10:01 AM
right the bees are trying to lower it when it gets that hight just saying that honey in the hive does get up to and over 100 degrees, in fact was in southern CA last summer and the temps got in the 120s saw a few hives not in the shade having melted honey and wax run out the entrance what a mess.
also want to say (not that i have ever seen a LEGAL definition of raw honey) that honey is raw untill it is heated over 120F
regards Nick

Melisseus
09-24-2008, 10:17 AM
The temps in the hive are all fine and good, the natural temperature. We're talking about artificial heat, added by HUMANS. The legal definition, from what I've read, is any heat added by humans.

-Mel.

Dan Williamson
09-24-2008, 10:49 AM
The temps in the hive are all fine and good, the natural temperature. We're talking about artificial heat, added by HUMANS. The legal definition, from what I've read, is any heat added by humans.

-Mel.

Then you best store your honey outside where the temps are natural. If you heat your home in the winter-time to anything above the NATURAL OUTDOOR TEMPS then your honey can no longer be considered raw/organic? Is that was you are suggesting? Please!!!!

ScadsOBees
09-24-2008, 11:06 AM
Do NOT touch my honey!:no: Your hands are almost 100F!!

That is silly, really, because then there is NO raw honey, since I need to heat my house all winter. Frozen honey just doesn't spread on toast the same way.

If you are relying on honey for your enzymes your diet is in bad shape. Honey is a sweetener, a treat, not a basic food substance. If you are eating that much honey that the enzymes make a difference, then you are going to have tooth decay.

Rick

Melisseus
09-24-2008, 11:10 AM
Who said I kept honey in the house? I bottle all my honey as soon as I extract it and store it outside in an UNHEATED tool shed. Life partner says the jars in the house takes up too much room anyway, and I agree. It crystallize, but it's still got all those natural live enzymes, not to mention the crazy good smell it has that I find goes away even with the littlest heating. I stopped liquifying it after I noticed this. It just tastes/smells better and is more sacred, gives everyone better vibes.


-Mel.

Dan Williamson
09-24-2008, 11:29 AM
Gotta love those vibes!!! :shhhh::s:scratch: I know that's why I keep bees and eat honey!:D

iddee
09-24-2008, 11:34 AM
To each his own. If all thought the same, there would never be a disagreement. You do it your way, I'll do it mine. We will both be right.

Ian
09-24-2008, 11:53 AM
>>RAW HONEY: honey as it exists in the beehive or as obtained by extraction, settling, or straining without adding heat.
>>It crystallize, but it's still got all those natural live enzymes, not to mention the crazy good smell it has that I find goes away even with the littlest heating.

The subject is hot room heating, not inline heating. I dont really know of anyone that keeps their hot room hotter than 30 degrees C. That temp isnt going to change the consistancy of your honey. It does get better than 30 degrees temperature natually outside you know.

Now with inline heating, there is more of a flash heat involved, but not enough to do any damage to the honey itself, ensymes and all. there and again its not exceeding a temp of 35 degrees

ScadsOBees
09-24-2008, 12:40 PM
To each his own. If all thought the same, there would never be a disagreement. You do it your way, I'll do it mine. We will both be right.

Well there you have it. If I kept my honey in the shed she'd kill me. Oh...not that honey!

Seriously, around here my shed gets probably up to 130 inside or more in the summer in the sun. Maybe you have a better ventilated shed, but mine is like a solar oven.

I like my raw honey to be liquid. You can use your definitions, I'll use mine.