15 Supercedure cells 2 swarm cells in top deep

[Eyeshooter]

This is a continuation of "Back to normal?" from Aug 21.

I opened the hive today, and inspected the medium super. Each frame was about 1/2 drawn and they have started storing honey in it, tho' I really think it is from syrup. When I inspected the top deep there were 15 supersedure cells–6 of them capped and the rest being attended to by the nurse bees. One frame had 5 cells on it. There were also 2 swarm cells–both capped–which I removed as there are not enough bees in this hive to swarm and I hoped they will raise a new queen who keeps the colony intact. There was some larvae and capped brood but most of the cells are empty. The bottom deep had 1 supersedure cell and was almost completely empty with some honey and pollen but not much.

My plan is to remove the medium, add a pollen patty and start feeding 2:1 and hope a queen emerges soon and gets laying! Does this make sense or am I just really bad at this? Forget the 2nd part of that question. The bees have already shown me...

Please respond as I'm very concerned that this hive is not going to make it through winter without some serious help.

Thanks,

John:confused::confused:

[RayMarler]

Yes it does make sense, do as you outlined. Put the pollen patty between the two bottom deeps, and feed the 2:1 sugar:water syrup until they get the top deep heavy with nectar. They need time to process it into honey for winter stores so time is critical now. Best of luck!

[Eyeshooter]

Thanks, Ray. Once I shake the bees off the honey mediums I think I'm supposed to leave the frames out for the field workers to take the honey back to the deeps. Is it best to leave the frames 40-50 yards away for them to get it and not bring other bees/ants/etc to the main hive or should I leave the frames a lot closer?

I appreciate your help!

John

[TwT]

This is a continuation of "Back to normal?" from Aug 21.

15 supersedure cells–6 of them capped and the rest being attended to by the nurse bees. One frame had 5 cells on it. There were also 2 swarm cells–both capped–

John:confused::confused:

which cells were larger? the 6 capped above or the 2 cells on bottom? just because a queen hatches on bottom doesn't necessarily mean she will swarm, those eggs on bottom just might have been the right age since you have supercedure cells also and might have been the best. if all cells were on bottom I would think this hive is about to swarm or already did but if I see cells up high on the frame and a couple down low I figure they superceding the hive.

Did you check out the cells when you removed them?, always check and see how far the queen was developed and see how much royal jelly is in the cell, this will give you a comparison on how well the new queens were feed, a lot of jelly is the best and little to none is not good, that's the way I was taught was when the queen hatches from her cell it is always best that some jelly is still in the cell that means she was well feed and can be all she can bee ;) ( a cell protector is needed for this, they have new ones now were the queen can escape but no bees get in, works great when installing in nuc's). a queen with a empty cell (no royal jelly) will not be the queen she could have been and probably get changed out before long by you or the bee's, she might do ok but odds are against her. might be something you can look at another time, sorry for rambling just sharing the 2 cents I got, about out now.

[RayMarler]

Yea, put the medium far away is best. Another option is to put it in the stack but on the very bottom. As cooler weather sets in and the queen hatches and mates, they'll move all the honey/nectar out of the bottom and put it up to top above the broodnest. Then when it's empty you can remove the medium out of the stack. Or you can leave it 'till spring and move it back on top at that time.

[Eyeshooter]

Hi, TwT.

Thanks for the lesson! I did check out what I thought was a swarm cell when I took it off. There was a larva inside with a lot of "goo" that I took to be jelly. In hind site (always my best) I wondered if these were just supersedure cells placed low. I will put a picture of one in my album after this post.

I appreciate your help!

John

[Eyeshooter]

Hi, Ray.

I like the idea of moving the super to the bottom and letting them clean it out. I had 10 frames in each of my supers (2 hives) and made them both 8 frame yesterday and placed the frames on the other side of the yard. This morning a couple of the ladies were quite busy on the frames along with numerous ants. Seems the bees will get more of it if I leave it in the stack.

One last question, if I may. My pollen patties were infested with moths. I've cut the perimeter off of the best ones and have frozen them. Can I use these or is this too chancy? I can have some new patties here this week, just hate loosing $90 worth.

Unfortunately, I think I know the answer but I've been wrong so many other times I thought I'd at least get this started in case they are OK to use.

Thanks!

John

[RayMarler]

I went against all that is ever said and used some old pollen patty that had gotten moth larva in it. I put it in the freezer for a week to kill the larva, then used the patty in the hives.

All I ever hear in here and in mainstream beekeeping is that pollen degrades over time and you should keep it in freezer for long storage or not use old pollen. I can not disagree with this.

You decide what you want to do in your situation.

[Eyeshooter]

I hear you...new pollen patties it is.

Thanks for your responses and help Ray. I put the super on the bottom of each of my 2 hives and started feeding 2:1 with 1 tsp HBH/qt to get them going. The girls were mighty ticked off but did not sting:D


I hope the next queen keeps the mellowness gene!

John