d) Getting bees

[Barry]

Focus: package/nuc/swarm, breed, etc.

[NasalSponge]

I am 100% in favor of buying nucs/starter hives from a local source if at all possible.

[tedstruk]

When you first get your hive you need to know that an empty hive will get no bees. It must have been previously used, or have at least some honey in it to get wild bees to move in. Place a jar of open honey in front of the empty hive, and leave the opening to the large size. If you have a telescoping cover, put the lid on the telescope lip to allow the bees a better entrance to the stores. If you have a plywood lid, put a stick under it to prop it up. The hive should be humid inside but not moist, and warm. All my bees are wild bees. They are a bit agressive but they really produce.

[Eaglerock]

When you first get your hive you need to know that an empty hive will get no bees. It must have been previously used, or have at least some honey in it to get wild bees to move in. Place a jar of open honey in front of the empty hive .

Ted, I have had them move into an empty that was new. So that is not always true. Chances are it will not happen, but it can (right place, right time).

I tryed the honey in a jar once... Robbers took it including ants, other bees beside honey bees, and honey bees. Again, one never knows what they will do. If it worked for you... great! Never did for me back in the 60's and 70's.

[IndianaHoney]

To get bees to move in, one the best things that works for me is a frame of drawn empty brood comb. For best success, I have left a dead out hive that staved over winter in its location, and come swarm season, the bees move right in.

Oh ya, don't leave them out if the temps are above 80, like in the summer. Wax moths will get in them and you will lose every single frame.

[RayMarler]

I put my name on a swarm retrieval list at the local bee supply store, which gets calls from the local 911 system. I got started with bees this way, getting swarms from trees and such. Was easy and rewarding. I found swarms are a good way to start as we don't have africanized bees here yet, the swarms come from hives that have over wintered already so are in good shape. Some of my best bees came from swarms.

[Hambone]

Here is a link of Bee Suppliers.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218154&highlight=Gardner%27s

[honeyman46408]

Here is a link of Bee Suppliers.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218154&highlight=Gardner%27s

ORDER EAIRLY like December

[Ravenseye]

Yeah...what honeyman said. Especially with so many new beekeepers, it's best to order early and get your bees reserved. I'd rather end up with an extra package and have to nuc for a while or scramble to buy a hive body then to get all set up with equipment and have no bees to hive.

[tecumseh]

nuc are an excellent way to start.... definitely superior to a package and much easier to transport than a full size hive.

prior to acquiring check about with any local bee keepers to see if there is a particular strain of bees that works best for your area. if you plan to keep the bees close to populate areas make certain that gentleness takes on a significant place in the selection criterion.

[Zane]

I like the nuc idea and started w/ that. Costwise and timewise it seemed to be best(ie 5 frames w/ drawn foundation already). I didnt get any honey out of it yet this year and my swarms have just about caught up with it too. The nuc was Minn Hygenics, they headbut alot but are fairly nice. I'll do it again but want to try another strain like Italians or ? I waited too long for my local guy that had nucs but where very very late so I went w/ another guy off Craiglist and got the Minn Hyg in June
On another note I might buy pkg bee's if I have a weak hive after this winter to strengthen it up.
Then there is the "split" thats yet another ewway to get bee's right?

[fatscher]

...and I have to agree, but there is absolutely no bigger thrill that hiving your first package. Do it just one time, and be done with it, and from then on, get nucs, but you ain't lived if you've never hived a package of 13,000 confused defenseless female worker bees.

Also do this: Don't wear gloves or a suit when you hive them. But DO wear a veil. When you hive packages, the bees are not in a defensive posture. Bees will fly all around you, land on you crawl all over you, but will rarely sting you. If you do get stung (make sure you're not allergic to bee venom!!!!), it will only be 5 or less stings.

The rush of having 300-600 honeybees crawling all over your hands and bare arms is like no other. People look at you like you're crazy, but you know what's in the mind of a honeybee.

The thrill of hiving a package matches the time you woke up Christmas morning as a kid and got that special Christmas gift.

[newbeemike]

Last year, first year, we go a package of Italians from Georgia (I think). They were great! My wife always used a vail but I rarely wore much more than a baseball cap to keep them out of my hair. I only got stung once when I accidentally squished one with my finger.

My main question is, I've heard Russians are a little hotter but, how much hotter? I would like to get some nuks from a local guy (http://newenglandfarms.com/), but he only has Russians. He says they're pretty mild but I've never handled Ruskies before.

Opinions?

[NDnewbeek]

To All,

I have compiled a bee supplier list for my region (North Dakota/Northern Plains), mostly because I was having a very hard time finding people to ship to my location at a reasonable price. The list is up to date for 2009 and contains about 25 or so suppliers of package bees (2/3/4lb), nucs and queens who are either willing to ship to my region (generally referred to as 'beyond Zone 4') or raise queens/bees that I might be interested in trying some day in my northern climate.

Inclusion of a supplier on my list is in NO WAY an endorsement of their products or services (although, I also record my experiences with their products if I have tried them for my own record keeping and future purchase decision making). The list is just a reference of products/services (and the costs) available to me 'beyond Zone 4'!

The list is an MS Excel file. If anyone is interested, PM me and I will email it to you.

Mike

[chillard willard]

Focus: package/nuc/swarm, breed, etc.

I believe nucs would be the way to go. It's so much simpler to put in the hive and not having to worry about releasing a queen, since the nuc has a laying queen and brood in various stages, it's so much farther ahead the 2-4 pounds of bees with a queen that won't be laying until 4-6 days after installation.

For a beginer any bee thats gentle would be fine, Italians would be what I would suggest, they are a high maintainence bee but a few hives are easily managable.

Putting your name into the fire dept. and pest control companies in your are for swarm removale is another way to start. it's not a garentee that you'd get a swarm call and if you did you might pick up more than you bargained for ( disease, ill tempered bees, ect) though most of this stuff is treatable.

[gingerbee]

If my weak hives make it through to warmer weather I may add a package to each of them.
Best to keep the new queen rather than the overwintered one? Depend on brood? I'm not sure how old the queens are in these hives.

[rw3212]

gingerbee-

I'm sure other, more experienced members will chime in but, IMHO adding a package to a hive in the spring seem to me a wrong move. I would think that would be the time to offer suppliment feedings and encourage them to build up on their own. If there is a queen in the existing colony they should recover fine with a little TLC.

Start a new hive with the package and combine later if the overwintered don't build up this spring. There that's my 2 cents.

[gingerbee]

Thanks for the advice, makes sense to me. I've been feeding and am ordering protien supplements, but I've learned the best time to build hives is in the fall, but I wasn't sure what to do now that it' s almost spring and I have several weak hives.

Reading Allen Dick's info has been a great help, as well as others who are in the commercial business and need really strong hives to be viable. I don't treat my bees chemically so they may be weak from disease (mites, etc.) also. I just reallly don't want to treat chemically so better management- essential oils, powder dusting, sticky boards are things I need to incorporate into a management schedule.

[Durandal]

I made an entry on my blog that deals with cut outs. I did three cut-outs my first year. This one was the first one for 2009, and was fairly intimidating because of the high possibility of failure.

Worked out alright though. Hived them yesterday and I have them cramped up in a deep since its going down to 20F tomorrow night. Three of the frames are brood and stores I cut out and the other two frames are pierco one piece plastic frames dipped in wax and misted with syrup.

The have already drawn out about 15% of the frames in less than 24 hours.

I am happy with them. Next warm spell they'll get another deep nuc and five more frames of pierco.

I tried to make the experience and advice and user friendly as possible.

http://www.carriagehousefarmllc.com/Beekeeping/News_%26_Education/Entries/2009/3/10_First_Bee_Removal_of_2009_Completed.html

Let me know if anyone finds value in it and I'll be happy to do more.

[gingerbee]

Great pictures! Did you get a lot of stings doing this? We just had a question on this board from someone who did cutouts regarding the smell of the attack pheromone in the beesuit. Is there a way to remove the scent from clothing?

[Durandal]

I was really brave for a while and then I got stung near my eye, so I always wear at least a veil any time I am around bees.

Doing a cut-out means things are going to be nasty. You are going to be handling comb, moving it, cutting it and it takes a while which means lots of smoker fuel. I always where gloves and a jacket and veil when doing a cut out.

I always where a veil when working my own bees. I got popped near the eye and my reaction with that kind of sting was a bit scary. Sometimes I do not even notice getting stung, but on my face the reaction is different for some reason. It usually takes about 3 to 4 days for the swell to go down.

Better safe than sorry.

[Durandal]

Here is a look at how you would get the brood into a frame from a cut-out. Here I am using a medium frame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAjtYKWXnOc

It is important to know the source of bees. This was done in my first year and I was eager and willing to practice cut outs at this location, a grain facility. The problem was that they would only call me after spraying did not work. I found this out from an employee later on.

I have not returned though they have called several times since.

Keep in mind that I am a farmer (which means I am also sort of a contractor) and have most the tools I need on hand. Buying these tools new can set you back a whole lot more than a couple packages or waiting out a swarm to drop into a box.

[indypartridge]

Along with getting bees, figure out where you will get replacement queens, because you WILL eventually need to get a queen. Maybe next week, maybe next year, but don't wait until you're queenless and then start a panicked search.

Find a local queen producer, or ask nearby beeks for recommendations, but determine in advance who you're gonna call.

[franktrujillo]

along the way you said they was spraying the bees.The bees that you removed did they ever stay alive long after...I removed a hive the city sprayed placed all bees in new box I destroyed all comtaminated comb.Still curious to see if they winter over..

[Durandal]

I have had no bees survive from that location.

I am right around 1 in 10 for successful cut outs.

Nowadays, they pay 350.00 with 35.00 travel fee that is included in the 350.00. If they do not pay I simply do not remove. Way too much effort when its a whole lot easier to breed bees from much easier to get swarms. If the cut is a late season one it is rare to see it make it through winter north of the Ohio River.