Edwards Affair

[Sundance]

John Edwards came out today and admitted that he has
had an affair.

The fact that he lied about it brings his political career to
an end.

My heart goes out to his wife, and kids. Hopefully he will
make amends to his family.

[Eaglerock]

[QUOTE=Sundance;342282]

The fact that he lied about it brings his political career to
an end.

QUOTE]


Sorry, I don't agree... a lot have had affairs, uncluding JFK. I am sure it won't help. But Clinton had an affair before he became President, and durning. Yet, people see pass that. But don't ask me why, however, when Bill did what he did, I stated that it had nothing to do with running the country, I didn't care to hear about it. That was something between him and his wife, and the bimbo.

So we find out that important people have failings...so what else is new...

[Sundance]

I understand your view, and I should have said his
career is over for higher office.

The difference between Edwards and Clinton were that
Clinton's' scandal with Flowers was speculation at best
and was never admitted to. The Lewinski tryst was in
his second term. Had it been during his first, I doubt
he'd have won the second term.

Personally, I hope it does not keep him from political life,
I admire him and his efforts. His affair makes no difference
to me as long as he owns it, and makes amends to his
family. He owes only an apology to the public (and only
because he lied about it).

[Trevor Mansell]

Dont forget Edwards had an affair while his wife had cancer.

[Eaglerock]

I understand your view, and I should have said his
career is over for higher office.

Personally, I hope it does not keep him from political life,
I admire him and his efforts. His affair makes no difference
to me as long as he owns it, and makes amends to his
family. He owes only an apology to the public (and only
because he lied about it).

I too admire him, but I am sure he will not be the VP running mate now.
I feel for his wife and family.

[Sundance]

Dont forget Edwards had an affair while his wife had cancer.

Not for me to judge..........

The Edwards have been personally dealing with this since 2006
from what I understand. My guess is they have resolved quite
a bit of it already.

[Eaglerock]

Dont forget Edwards had an affair while his wife had cancer.

What does that have to do with it?

[Hillside]

A politician having an affair? Knock me over with a feather!

It seems to have worked out OK for McCain.

[JohnK and Sheri]

What does that have to do with it? It was still wrong?

I do not know the personal details of John and Elizabeth's relationship nor do I want to. For all we know she may have been aware of this for years, at least hopefully so. To get surprised by something like this via the media would be cruel indeed. The fact that this affair took place while his wife was battling cancer is more heinous to many, including myself. On the surface this is reminiscent of Nute Gingrich's callousness.
Sheri

[Trevor Mansell]

What does that have to do with it? It was still wrong?

I was only refering to his political career.

[Bodo]

It makes me wonder what else the Inquirer gets right? ;-)

[drobbins]

the Daily show is going to be hilarious tonight:D

Dave

[Sundance]

I agree Dave........ Jon will be in his glory, as will Colbert.

[Sundance]

McCain has to steer clear of this one!! He does not
want to stir the pot whilst living in the proverbial
glass house.

[dragonfly]

I feel pretty bad for all of them. It's a sad situation.

[JPK1NH]

Frankly I think its pretty pathetic that it took 2+ years and getting busted by the National Enquirer before he would fess up to not being able to remain faithful to his wife/keep it in his pants.

[Sundance]

Frankly I think its pretty pathetic that it took 2+ years and getting busted by the National Enquirer before he would fess up to not being able to remain faithful to his wife/keep it in his pants.


It took a lot longer for McCain......... a lot longer!

[JPK1NH]

It took a lot longer for McCain......... a lot longer!

I'm not sure what McCain has to do with what Edwards did at the height of political power....while preparing/engaged in a campaign for the President......

For those that can't be bothered to look it up McCain aparrantly did have a an affair but it was not while he in or was seeking political office.....and he eventually ended up marrying the girl he had an affair with.......unlike Edwards who got her knocked up and then paid her off with campaign funds.....

[mike haney]

"....unlike Edwards who got her knocked up and then paid her off with campaign funds....." SWIFTBOATING AT ITS WORST

[JPK1NH]

"....unlike Edwards who got her knocked up and then paid her off with campaign funds....." SWIFTBOATING AT ITS WORST

You say that like the "Swiftboating" term the Dems coined is a BAD thing......

Lets recall the original.....a bunch of Kerry's mates from the military came out and told people what happened in VN and that he was not a respectable person.....if the people you live and fight side by side think you're unworthy it probably carries a bit of weight...

I guess the truth hurts eh?

[deknow]

edwards has said he would take a dna test to prove that the child isn't his. my prediction is that the mother will not submit the child for the test.

deknow

[Jeffzhear]

The gal he had an affair with isn't bad lookin!:)

[Derek]

I have a theory on this.

This has been going on for years with him. And as reported tonight he told his wife two years ago that he had affair.

Obama started his vacation today. Not one channel right now cnn, fox, msnbc, ect.. is talking about anything else but Edwards. Whatever McCain did today nobody is talking about. And won't for the next few days. The Edwards will drag this out for days and McCain camp will get no press. And when this dies down, Obama will be back. Pretty smart planning.

[Keith Jarrett]

The Edwards will drag this out for days and McCain camp will get no press. And when this dies down, Obama will be back. Pretty smart planning.

Well Derek1, you only have to out smart (THINK) audience, that appears not to be much of a problem these days.

[drobbins]

ya know,
I had an experience earlier in life where someone who I had great respect for was fooling around with his secretary
this guy was was a college professor of mine who I made friends with and liked a lot
he died of a heart problem so he's dead and gone now but I can't help but think that the conclusion I came to back them was if I guy's wife can't trust him, how can anyone else?
this guy was a great friend of mine but the point remains
if your wife can't trust you, who can??

Dave

[dhood]

Good point drobbins, exactly what I was thinking when I read this post.

[Keith Jarrett]

anyone else?
this guy was a great friend of mine but the point remains
if your wife can't trust you, who can??
Dave

Dave, very well said,

I "think" integrity comes to mind.

[mike haney]

i predict he'll pull a newt gingrich and sit out a while then come back to the lime-light. professional politicians, it's all they know. the 3 minute attention span of the american public makes this possible. sad,sad

[Derek]

ya know, this guy was was a college professor
Dave

Teachers. Gees!

[Keith Jarrett]

Teachers. Gees!

Derek1,

you know the old saying.

Those that can "DO" those that can't "TEACH".

[Derek]

I wounder if Edwards will disappear by saying he has a sex addiction and has to go to rehab? Thats gotta be the best rehab to go to.

huh... Now that I think about that....I see ya in about 30 days.

[Barry]

I guess the truth hurts eh?

As if you know the truth about this matter?

[tecumseh]

jpk writes:
Y
Lets recall the original.....a bunch of Kerry's mates from the military came out and told people what happened in VN and that he was not a respectable person.....if the people you live and fight side by side think you're unworthy it probably carries a bit of weight...

I guess the truth hurts eh?

tecumseh replies:
your political near sightness does not allow you to even recognize the truth.

the folks making the comments were not john kerry shipmates, unless you very loosely include everyone in the us navy as your shipmate.... generally the term means you served on the same boat as someone else. as it turned out one or two of the fellows making the charges againist mr kerry were not even in the same area of vietnam. the primary person making the changes 'an oil lawyer out of houston texas' was hardly even 'in country' at the same time.

the 'swiftboating' was kind of funny given that mr kerry oposition had so quite plainly gone awol during the same era.

Back to Topic: if one made a list of all the politicians that had affairs (a short list might include, washington, jefferson, eisenhower, ronnie ray-gun, jfk, clinton) it becomes quite clear that the yea about equal the nays. I suspect these kind of qualities are just what you get with actors and politicians (who seem to suffer from almost exactly the same disease).

[JPK1NH]

the folks making the comments were not john kerry shipmates, unless you very loosely include everyone in the us navy as your shipmate.... generally the term means you served on the same boat as someone else. as it turned out one or two of the fellows making the charges againist mr kerry were not even in the same area of vietnam. the primary person making the changes 'an oil lawyer out of houston texas' was hardly even 'in country' at the same time.

the 'swiftboating' was kind of funny given that mr kerry oposition had so quite plainly gone awol during the same era.


Really? Read on.....


Swift Veterans Quotes

"My name is Steve Gardner. I served in 1966 and 1967 on my first tour of duty in Vietnam on Swift boats, and I did my second tour in '68 and '69, involved with John Kerry in the last 2 1/2 months of my tour. The John Kerry that I know is not the John Kerry that everybody else is portraying. I served alongside him and behind him, five feet away from him in a gun tub, and watched as he made indecisive moves with our boat, put our boats in jeopardy, put our crews in jeopardy... if a man like that can't handle that 6-man crew boat, how can you expect him to be our Commander-in-Chief?"

-- Steven Gardner

You can read more testimonials here http://horse.he.net/~swiftpow/index.php?topic=SwiftVetQuotes

Not to get too far off topic but John Kerry falls into the same category as Jane Fonda IMHO......

[JPK1NH]

I wounder if Edwards will disappear by saying he has a sex addiction and has to go to rehab? Thats gotta be the best rehab to go to.

huh... Now that I think about that....I see ya in about 30 days.

That would be precious......

[deknow]

cheating aside, it's very difficult to trust anyone who will lie about such things. i did have a friend who was cheating on his wife...everyone suspected it, and he burst into tears telling me it wasn't true ....it was. when your intellect tells you what is going on, and someone decides to lie, it forces a choice...do i trust what this person is telling me, or do i trust the facts and/or my spidy senses as to what is going on. it's extremely insulting to be lied to in such a circumstance....it makes one doubt one's own judgment.


from 07:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2007/10/12/2007-10-12_john_edwards_denies_tabloid_charge_of_af.html

Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards Thursday vehemently denied a supermarket tabloid's story that he cheated on his wife.

"It's completely untrue, ridiculous," Edwards told reporters in Summerton, S.C., after being asked about a National Enquirer story that said he had an affair with a campaign staffer.

The Enquirer did not name the woman or the source of its information. But the Web site MyDD.com, a political "direct democracy" forum, posted a statement from Rielle Hunter, a woman who has made a series of short documentaries about the former North Carolina senator.

"The innuendoes and lies that have appeared on the Internet and in the National Enquirer concerning John Edwards are not true, completely unfounded and ridiculous," Hunter stated. "When working for the Edwards camp, my conduct as well as the conduct of my entire team was completely professional. This concocted story is just dirty politics, and I want no part of it."

In rejecting the Enquirer report, Edwards also emphasized his enduring love for his wife, Elizabeth, who is being treated for incurable cancer.

"I've been in love with the same woman for 30-plus years and, as anybody who's been around us knows, she's an extraordinary human being, warm, loving, beautiful, sexy and as good a person as I have ever known," Edwards said. "So the story's just false."

[mike haney]

now edwards is saying the tabloid story had "many factual errors" so his denyal of the story was 99% true. sheese why can't the guy admit to a mistake and just shut up? makes it hard to cut the guy some slack for not being perfect.

[mike haney]

thinking about why this story provokes people the way it does makes me look at my own reaction 'cause thats the only one i can know. after working 30 some years for one of the worlds largest multi-national companys i have been tempted many times to cheat and like j. carter seen some very fine prospects. i have always resisted temptation (now i'm too old to be tempted) and suffered from a case of moral superiority when story's like this surface. honest introspection reveals that "but for the GRACE FROM GOD, there go i" try to cut this guy some slack if just for the sake of his family.

[JPK1NH]

thinking about why this story provokes people the way it does makes me look at my own reaction 'cause thats the only one i can know. after working 30 some years for one of the worlds largest multi-national companys i have been tempted many times to cheat and like j. carter seen some very fine prospects. i have always resisted temptation (now i'm too old to be tempted) and suffered from a case of moral superiority when story's like this surface. honest introspection reveals that "but for the GRACE FROM GOD, there go i" try to cut this guy some slack if just for the sake of his family.

Just my opinion but normal people generally speaking deserve to be cut some slack......people who decide to run for office and put in a position where thet are responsible for lots more than themselves and their families (particularly the "Big Seat") need to be ruthlessly scrutinized.

[sqkcrk]

.......unlike Edwards who got her knocked up and then paid her off with campaign funds.....

Wow JPK. I haven't heard that stated anywhere in the media that I listen to. Have you? Or are you just speculating? Where's the evidence?

[Barry Digman]

Not to get too far off topic but John Kerry falls into the same category as Jane Fonda IMHO......


Really? She earned a Silver Star, a Bronze Star, and three Purple Hearts while in combat in Viet Nam? Who knew?

[sqkcrk]

Not one channel right now cnn, fox, msnbc, ect.. is talking about anything else but Edwards.

May I recommend National Public radio? Though this was covered on NPR this morning, alot of other things were too. Maybe you should listen for News there sometimes.

[alpha6]

The guy is a dirtbag. Putting his wife through this as she is fighting for her life just so he could get a little on the side is selfish, self serving and shows what shallow [edit by mod] he really is. Oh and I bet after he "admitted" it to her in 2006 he kept her up to date the many times after that he met the bimbo after that. Get a clue people. :rolleyes:

I am amazed at anyone standing up for this guy after all this. Don't you people have bees to take care of?

[sqkcrk]

As if you know the truth about this matter?

Well said Barry. There are probably only two or three people who know "the truth". John Edwards, his wife and the woman he had sex with.

From what I've heard that he said, John Edwards told his wife about it right after what happened happened. If this is true, I can relate to that. I'm sure that I would have a hard time looking my wife in the face were I to do what Edwards did. I couldn't stand the pressure of carrying such a betrayal around and hiding it.

[mike haney]

"..... Get a clue people.

I am amazed at anyone standing up for this guy after all this. ...." get a heart,alpha6. if you are a christian, theres an apt quote i remind myself with- "judge not least you be judged"

[sqkcrk]

That would be precious......

You really enjoy the self inflicted pain of this, don't you? Do you really think that you would have done differently, having John Edwards experiences? Are you, or any of us, so much bettere a person than John Edwards?

I don't think that we need to "forgive" him and brush his humanity under the rug. But, apparently, his wife forgave him his indiscretion. So who are we to critisize a fellow imperfect being?

[sqkcrk]

"..... Get a clue people.

I am amazed at anyone standing up for this guy after all this. ...." get a heart,alpha6. if you are a christian, theres an apt quote i remind myself with- "judge not least you be judged"

Well, apparently he's not. But his reaction is somewhat understandable, if not unforgiving.

[deknow]

"judge not least you be judged"

although i understand the sentiment behind this quote, i don't think it applies here (at least from my perspective).

i use my JUDGMENT every day. i use my judgment to decide whom i can trust, whom i want to do business with, who's opinion is valuable to me.

i don't judge something like this edwards thing in the sense that i think god should smite him (or a person in gods name), but my judgment tells me that this guy is not trustworthy. the facts tell me that he is not only willing to satisfy his desires behind his wife's back, he is willing to lie about it (as is his mistress)...straight up lie to the public that he wants to support him as freaking president, in order to make himself look like a better person than he is.

i don't judge in god's name (which is what i think the above quote is really about). judging the character of a person based on their actions, and using that as a basis for deciding how trustworthy, capable, reliable a person is seems completely appropriate to me in all circumstances. in this case, john edwards did a big fat belly flop, and deserves quite a bit of judgment as to what role we think he should have in government.

deknow

deknow

[mike haney]

if one lies to the public,cheats on his wife, etc they are unsuitable for public office. a dirtbag [edit by mod], that is a judgement of his character." the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak" if the spirit is not willing enough, or if the flesh is TOO weak that makes you human- but disqualifies you from leading.

[JPK1NH]

Really? She earned a Silver Star, a Bronze Star, and three Purple Hearts while in combat in Viet Nam? Who knew?

Barry, you don't need to look too far to find evidence of issues with Kerry's commendations....not to mention Purple Hearts that were in some cases awarded for the equivalent of a "boo boo".

http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=FE4CC29C-646B-42C6-B494-226C454BB38B

You can google his record yourself and find a multitude of issues.

I can't use words here to describe how I feel about his actions and lies....he undermined the US and our military in a similar fashion as Fonda did by going to Hanoi and denouncing the US and POW's...she costs us the lives of US Service Men and IMHO should have been tried and hung as a traitor/collaborator.

[Bodo]

What the larger question needs to be is why the mass media ignored what was going on and still seems hesitant in broadcasting the story.

[Eaglerock]

if one lies to the public,cheats on his wife, etc they are unsuitable for public office. a dirtbag or P.O.S., that is a judgement of his character." the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak" if the spirit is not willing enough, or if the flesh is TOO weak that makes you human- but disqualifies you from leading.

Most leaders of the world have done something like this... clear back in time.
Even great leaders, so that doesn't stand up.

Read history, you will see. But this doesn't mean there were those that did not and were great leaders as well. Just means if your flesh is weak, that it disqualifies you from leading. Just makes you have to prove yourself to the people. I believe, however, that this nation will hold him accountable. He will have a tuff time, but, might in time, return.

[deknow]

...in contrast, the enquirer story on rush limbaugh and his painkiller addiction (who has never run for office, and is in essence, a pop star) seemed to get lots of attention in the mass media.

deknow

[Bodo]

Curious isn't it?

[Barry Digman]

I can't use words here to describe how I feel about his actions and lies....he undermined the US and our military in a similar fashion as Fonda did by going to Hanoi and denouncing the US and POW's...she costs us the lives of US Service Men and IMHO should have been tried and hung as a traitor/collaborator.




Actually, she probably saved lives by helping to hasten the end of a very stupid war. And questioning a warriors medals or ribbons because one doesn't like his political views is ........

[Keith Jarrett]

I beleve, .

Hey Eaglerock, are you still teaching English, those darn glass houses.

[Eaglerock]

Originally Posted by JPK1NH
I can't use words here to describe how I feel about his actions and lies....he undermined the US and our military in a similar fashion as Fonda did by going to Hanoi and denouncing the US and POW's...she costs us the lives of US Service Men and IMHO should have been tried and hung as a traitor/collaborator.

Actually, she probably saved lives by helping to hasten the end of a very stupid war. And questioning a warriors medals or ribbons because one doesn't like his political views is ........

I agree with Barry. How does someone trying to stop a war cost lives. Anytime people stand together to end an unjust war, only saves lives. Those who say these things have only listen to others and believes their stories. I know many that would have gone if the war had no ended, and they too might never have had familes, because they would have died. I lost a good friend in that war. I sometimes wonder, how I lived and he was taken. Could have been me, then my three daughters would not be.

[JPK1NH]

Actually, she probably saved lives by helping to hasten the end of a very stupid war. And questioning a warriors medals or ribbons because one doesn't like his political views is ........

His political views and commendations are unrelated issues.

Not to go off on a tangent but who dragged us into the VN War?....The Liberals....JFK and then Johnson escalated it....then Johnson attempted to micromanage minute decisions and engagements and in turn handicapped the military to such a degree that it dragged out a lot longer that it should have.

If you're going to fight a war then pull out all of the stops and obliterate the enemy in as short a period of time as possible.

North Vietnam was a distinct political/govenment entity and along with China and to a lesser degree Russia was supplying the NVA and VC through N VN.

Had Johnson not handicapped and mismanaged the Military and allowed them to do what was necessary to obliterate the supply line and infrastructure we would have likely seen a different outcome to what I will agree was a stupid war started by the Liberals in the US.

Please don't ever underestimate the damage that was done to the US Military and the American Psyche as a result of that poor outcome of that war.

Kerry is pile of dung no matter how you slice it...but thats just my opinion based upon his voting record and the spew that comes out of his mouth.

[Barry Digman]

Not to go off on a tangent but who dragged us into the VN War?....The Liberals....JFK and then Johnson escalated it....then Johnson attempted to micromanage minute decisions and engagements and in turn handicapped the military to such a degree that it dragged out a lot longer that it should have.



Yep. You'd think by now that a country as big and powerful and smart as the USA who had the Viet Nam experience would have learned not to go tearing around the world trying to run everyone else's country for them. Getting sucked into these things is a fools errand, regardless of whether it's a liberal or a conservative administration that does it.

[Eaglerock]

Hey Eaglerock, are you still teaching English, those darn glass houses.
No, gave it up for History classes...LOL Thanks Keith, fixed it... also found another one too....

[sqkcrk]

What the larger question needs to be is why the mass media ignored what was going on and still seems hesitant in broadcasting the story.

Because it's a "Who cares" story? Because he shot himself in the foot? Because there are plenty of other real and important stories to report? Because he isn't in the running for office?

Besides, it has been reported. Do you want it covered more? Why?

[sqkcrk]

...in contrast, the enquirer story on rush limbaugh and his painkiller addiction (who has never run for office, and is in essence, a pop star) seemed to get lots of attention in the mass media.

deknow

You left out hypocrit. I don't recall hearing about Edwards railing against adulterers. But I do remember hearing and hearing about Limbaughs opinions of persons w/ substance abuse problems.

[Eaglerock]

His political views and commendations are unrelated issues.

Not to go off on a tangent but who dragged us into the VN War?....The Liberals....JFK and then Johnson escalated it....then Johnson attempted to micromanage minute decisions and engagements and in turn handicapped the military to such a degree that it dragged out a lot longer that it should have.

If you're going to fight a war then pull out all of the stops and obliterate the enemy in as short a period of time as possible.



We could have gone in and did the job and left VN if we wanted to... For reasons other than to win it, we did not. It too was a war that was not to be won.

[sqkcrk]

Yep. You'd think by now that a country as big and powerful and smart as the USA who had the Viet Nam experience would have learned not to go tearing around the world trying to run everyone else's country for them.

And yet, JPK thinks it's okay to make other countries toe the line and do what's best for our country, not there own. Case in point, Iran. Which he seems to feel is next.

[Bodo]

You left out hypocrit. I don't recall hearing about Edwards railing against adulterers. But I do remember hearing and hearing about Limbaughs opinions of persons w/ substance abuse problems.

Obviously you forgot about what he said about Clinton

Feb. 12, 1999:

I think this President has shown a remarkable disrespect for his office, for the moral dimensions of leadership, for his friends, for his wife, for his precious daughter. It is breathtaking to me the level to which that disrespect has risen.

Who's the hypocrite now?

[deknow]

You left out hypocrit. I don't recall hearing about Edwards railing against adulterers. But I do remember hearing and hearing about Limbaughs opinions of persons w/ substance abuse problems.

really? at the time of the episode, i would have thought the same thing...until i looked into it, and found nothing to support such claims. it would be an easy assumption to make, and i'd be interested to see any documentation to support it.

wrt edwards,


"I've been in love with the same woman for 30-plus years and, as anybody who's been around us knows, she's an extraordinary human being, warm, loving, beautiful, sexy and as good a person as I have ever known," Edwards said. "So the story's just false."

"John Edwards:
Here’s what I would say about that. First of all, there’s not a single person in America that should vote for me because Elizabeth has cancer. Not a one. If you’re considering doing it, don’t do it. Do not vote for us because you feel some sympathy or compassion for us. That would be an enormous mistake. The vote for the presidency is far too important for any of those things to influence it. But, I think every single candidate for president, Republican and Democratic have lives, personal lives that indicate something about what kind of human being they are. And I think it is a fair evaluation for America to engage in to look at what kind of human beings each of us are, and what kind of president we’d make."

[sqkcrk]

Obviously you forgot about what he said about Clinton



Who's the hypocrite now?

Limbaugh? Or were those Edwards words? If so, him too? Let's not point at one and not another. And remember how many fingers are pointing back at oneself when we do point our finger at someone? Let's be careful. We could be next.

[Sundance]

At some point we (the USA) have to come to realize that
we are morphing into the global status that England and
France now have.

Other countries will supplant the US as "the powers" on
the economic front as well as global influence. China,
India, and others are the superpowers of tomorrow.

And....... I'm OK with that. Our boom has come and gone.
You can fear the change, or embrace it. I choose the
latter.

[sqkcrk]

really? at the time of the episode, i would have thought the same thing...until i looked into it, and found nothing to support such claims. it would be an easy assumption to make, and i'd be interested to see any documentation to support it.


I was refering to Limbaugh, not Edwards.

[deknow]

yes, i was referring to limbaugh as well. the guy talks basically off the cuff for 3 hours a day, you should be able to come up with some referance to what he actually said.

deknow

[Sundance]

Limbaugh is a clown, and he knows it. He's a comedian
pure and simple. Hard to believe anyone takes him seriously.

His brutal attack of Kitty Dukakis was adolescent at best.
And it certainly came around to bite him in the *** (no
small target).

[Bodo]

At some point we (the USA) have to come to realize that
we are morphing into the global status that England and
France now have.

Other countries will supplant the US as "the powers" on
the economic front as well as global influence. China,
India, and others are the superpowers of tomorrow.

And....... I'm OK with that. Our boom has come and gone.
You can fear the change, or embrace it. I choose the
latter.

Wow and you're REALLY ok with that? :rolleyes:
With an attitude like that there little to wonder why the US lags behind the rest of the world on many fronts. I'm glad that your 'oh well' attitude is the minority.

[Bodo]

Limbaugh? Or were those Edwards words? If so, him too? Let's not point at one and not another. And remember how many fingers are pointing back at oneself when we do point our finger at someone? Let's be careful. We could be next.

That was what edwards said. Limbagh is a private citizen, not a candidate. Apples and Oranges.

[deknow]

And remember how many fingers are pointing back at oneself when we do point our finger at someone? Let's be careful. We could be next.

uhhh, although i'm far from perfect, i know that "finger pointing" (no matter what the direction) is part of the quest for truth. fearing that fingers might point back at oneself is a good reason to suppress truth. this isn't too far from blackmail..."don't tell the truth about me, or i'll tell the truth about you".

truth is reality. we should not fear reality, we should embrace it.

in this case, edward's own fingers point at his self.

deknow

deknow

[Sundance]

Wow and you're REALLY ok with that? :rolleyes:
With an attitude like that there little to wonder why the US lags behind the rest of the world on many fronts. I'm glad that your 'oh well' attitude is the minority.

Absolutely I'm OK with that. My statement had nothing what so
ever to do with "lagging" behind on many fronts. You read that
into it.

My "attitude" is far from an "oh well" attitude. Again, you're added
interpretation. I am a realist. As a realist I am upset and NOT OK
with us lagging behind in the important factors. Like education,
and health care. Leading in military expenditure seems to be our
only claim to fame.

It is time to take a long hard look at our national priorities. Our
infrastructure is crumbling, millions with no health care, and we
crap away billions being the world cop.

[NeilV]

He's not even in the running for national office at this point. This is just gossip. I don't approve of marital infidelity. However, I think that this is just a private issue.

If you are a Republican and you think this is really important, then: (1) grow up; and (2) do some reading about McCain's affair when he was married to his first wife (who was sick when he cheated on her) and the rumors he also cheated on his current wife (which he denies). I don't think that stuff makes any difference, myself.

Vote on the guy who you think would do the best job and have the best policies for the success of the country. Do so with the understand that anybody who is so successful in politics that he gets nominated for President is probably not a saint or the most honest soul. Run as fast as you can from any high level politician who claim to be a saint and honest.

I bet most of the presidents of the U.S. during the 20th Century cheated on one or more of their wives. The one who I'm pretty sure didn't is Carter, and most people agree he was an ineffective president. Frankly, if the president does a good job for the benefit of the country, I could not care less about his sex life. If the president stinks, I don't care that he's faithful to his wife.

This is really less than a non-issue. Its counterproductive. We'd probably have BETTER politicians if we let our public figures keep their private lives private.

ndvan

[Bodo]

It is time to take a long hard look at our national priorities. Our
infrastructure is crumbling, millions with no health care, and we
crap away billions being the world cop.

Agreed on the infrastructure.

I don't see personal healthcare has a nation problem (it's a personal one).

In regards to being the 'world cop'...

That was the UN's job. But when they are unable to enforce its own laws/rules what good is it? The UN allows Darfur to happen. And you can't forget the oil for food program for Iraq. Someone has to do it.

Let's have a little thought experiment (aka hypothetical situation).

What would you like the solutions to these problems be, if you could have your way?

[Bodo]

This is really less than a non-issue. Its counterproductive. We'd probably have BETTER politicians if we let our public figures keep their private lives private.


If this was a Republican it'd be front page/leading story for weeks. Look at that guy with the 'wide stance'. It was a non-issue also, wasn't it?

:eek:

[knadai]

Frankly I was surprised so many people say this is the end of his political career. I thought that after Clinton, most people thought infidelity and lying about sex, even under oath, was not a big deal. "Doesn't rise to the level" of ending a political career, as was said then.

I'm not trying to make a point regarding Clinton. Just pleasantly surprised that, at 43 years of age, I'm not as old fashioned as I thought I was.

With that said, where is the bar set? It's okay to cheat on your wife (McCain, Giuliani) but not while running for president (Gary Hart, John Edwards). Then, once in office, it becomes okay again (JFK, Clinton)?

I suspect that when it involves YOUR GUY it becomes okay.

[Scrapfe]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodo
What the larger question needs to be is why the mass media ignored what was going on and still seems hesitant in broadcasting the story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SQKCRK
Because it's a "Who cares" story? Because he shot himself in the foot? Because there are plenty of other real and important stories to report? Because he isn't in the running for office?

The real story is about Edwards himself and his ethics or his lack of ethics. John Edwards (his lovely wife to) are officers of the court. That means Mr. Edwards is a trial lawyer. He has made hundreds of millions of dollars for himself and his law firm suing other people and corporations for damages.

If Mr. Edwards would lie to the nation and to his wife about an extramarital affair, and pay his paramour (who I do not think was qualified as a high end political aid) a $100,000 plus a year salary to ride around Iowa and New Hampshire in his campaign bus/air plane and stay in numerous motels/hotels on the campaign trail what lie might he tell or what perjury might he have suborned from witnesses to win a lawsuit that could extract Millions of sweet golden liquidity for him and his clients? I ain't talking about honey either!

As a member of the Bar Mr. Edwards has higher professional ethical standards to live up to than you or I and the service of ones country whether in combat or as a high officer of that country should requires one to meet those standards.

History teaches that the ancients wanted their leaders to bee more venturous than themselves at least in the realm of truthfulness. Every ancient culture Eastern or Western had different customs about sexual expression than ours. And a vast difference about the role of women in that culture. The real question in all of this is do we go further into the brave new world of modern sexual ethics or do we re-invent The Long Ranger’s opening theme song and return to those supposedly Thrilling days of yester year and return to objectifying women like the ancient Greeks/Romans or the ancient Chinese/Japanese did or some contemporary Moslem countries do today?

Bill Clinton lost his law license for lying about sex not because he got some. What no one ever mentions is that Paula Jones, the woman who sued Bill for sexual harassment lost her chance at justice because of Clinton’s prevarication. William Jefferson Clinton also pushed through congress and with much fanfare and flourishes of trumpets, signed into law the very act that he himself was sued under so he has no one to blame but himself. I believe he was the first person sued under this law. This all reminds me of the old saw of “What do you call a hundred lawyers going over a 1,000 foot tall cliff while standing on the back of a gasoline tanker?” Insert your own punch line.

[mike haney]

Limbaugh is a clown, and he knows it. He's a comedian
pure and simple. Hard to believe anyone takes him seriously.

His brutal attack of Kitty Dukakis was adolescent at best.
And it certainly came around to bite him in the *** (no
small target).

i have to disagree here with limbaugh being a clown. i consider him a mean spirited hate monger who has hurt this country tremendously promoting hatred of those who are not "ditto heads" all the while trying to excuse it by CLAIMING to be joking. i stopped listening to him when he stooped to making fun of chelsea clintons physical appearence when she was 13- simply to pander to those listeners who hated her father. the respect this country shows the office of the president of the united states took a nose dive under limbaughs constant sniping of bill clinton-again simply pandering to those who hated him. he was no saint but the public never talked about a sitting president in this manner before limbaugh, particularly about personal matters that did not affect the opperation of government.

[NeilV]

Scrapfe says "If Mr. Edwards would lie to the nation and to his wife about an extramarital affair . . .

that would make him like nearly ever dude in the world -- politician, trial lawyer, preacher, dog catcher, farmer, nose picker or picnicker -- who gets caught cheatin'. The sin is cheating on his wife, which is a private matter.

Bythe way Scapfe, the guy you quote in your tag line cheated on his wife with his slave . . . and still was a great American. (I wonder what he told his wife when she commented that the new slave baby had an awfully light complexion????) Oh yeah, he was also a lawyer.

ndvan

[deknow]

that would make him like nearly ever dude in the world -- politician, trial lawyer, preacher, dog catcher, farmer, nose picker or picnicker -- who gets caught cheatin'. The sin is cheating on his wife, which is a private matter.


well, as i quoted before, john edwards does not agree:
"I think every single candidate for president, Republican and Democratic have lives, personal lives that indicate something about what kind of human being they are. And I think it is a fair evaluation for America to engage in to look at what kind of human beings each of us are, and what kind of president we’d make."

i do think that there are all kinds of marriages, and it's up to the couple in question to decide how they treat one another. how a candidate for president (which he essentially was in 06) handles an embarrassing situation publicly _is_ important. edwards chose to lie about something that was bound to come out in the end, and didn't have the judgement or integrity to deal with the truth.

when one has a security clearance, one gets asked (with a polygraph) if they have cheated on their spouse. saying yes does not disqualify one from getting the clearance, but they do require you to tell your spouse (under observation). the logic here being that keeping such a secret makes one ripe for blackmail.

deknow

[NeilV]

Once again, the guy is a politician. What do you expect him to say?

Once again, I'm not saying its okay to cheat on your wife. I just don't think its that relevant to any public issue.

[deknow]

Once again, I'm not saying its okay to cheat on your wife. I just don't think its that relevant to any public issue.

...and once again, john edwards himself think it _is_ relevent.

deknow

[NeilV]

No, once again, John Edwards is a politician, and he _says_ that he thinks that its relevant.

ndvan

[indypartridge]

Frankly I was surprised so many people say this is the end of his political career.
Keep in mind that Edwards' political "career" consists of just one term in the Senate and two runs for President where he never seriously challenged for his party's nomination. Even John Kerry expressed regret that he ever picked Edwards as a running mate.

[sqkcrk]

yes, i was referring to limbaugh as well. the guy talks basically off the cuff for 3 hours a day, you should be able to come up with some referance to what he actually said.

deknow

Sorry, I only listen to rush when I'm driving through NC and can't find anything else to listen to.

Be glad i don't spout off my opinions for three hours everyday on the radio. There'd be alot of repetition and feet in mouth. :)

[sqkcrk]

truth is reality. we should not fear reality, we should embrace it.

deknow

And reality is based on perception and point of view. Therefore it can vary.

Some feel that from their perspective Iran's leader is insane. I imagine that from his perspective our leader is insane. Who's correct? And why?

[sqkcrk]

The real story is about Edwards himself and his ethics or his lack of ethics. John Edwards (his lovely wife to) are officers of the court. That means Mr. Edwards is a trial lawyer. He has made hundreds of millions of dollars for himself and his law firm suing other people and corporations for damages.


He's a lawyer and a polotician and you expect him to lead an exemplary life? You're going to be disappointed, often.

[Scrapfe]

Scrapfe says "If Mr. Edwards would lie to the nation and to his wife about an extramarital affair . . .

that would make him like nearly ever dude in the world -- politician, trial lawyer, preacher, dog catcher, farmer, nose picker or picnicker -- who gets caught cheatin'. The sin is cheating on his wife, which is a private matter.

Bythe way Scapfe, the guy you quote in your tag line cheated on his wife with his slave . . . and still was a great American. (I wonder what he told his wife when she commented that the new slave baby had an awfully light complexion????) Oh yeah, he was also a lawyer.

ndvan

I should change my tag line to “A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.”

When one seeks, high elective office a higher standard applies to that person’s conduct. The problem is not with who he/she/ or what farm animal some politician sleeps with but that what they not tell the nation a self-serving lie.

Sally Hemings was nine when Martha Wayles Jefferson died. There is no evidence that Thomas Jefferson was a pedophile. When Sally Hemings first child was born Thomas Jefferson’s wife Martha, had been dead for only thirteen years. I would rather hear you explain how Jefferson contacted his late wife to give her the news. On her deathbed in 1782 Thomas Jefferson’s wife’s Martha’s last request was that he never remarry, and for him to destroy all of his love letters to her and all of her love letters to him. At Martha Jefferson’s death, Thomas Jefferson spent an entire day and night alone in his room re-reading these love letters and consigning them one by one to the flames.

As for Miss Hemings: Sally Hemings came into the Jefferson estate by way of his father in law’s estate in 1773 the same year Sally Hemings was born. In addition, it is common knowledge that Miss Hemings was a dead ringer for Martha Wayles Jefferson, Jefferson’s wife, and was the daughter of Thomas Jefferson’s father in law John Wayles, who took Sally’s mother as his mistress after his third wife died. Therefore, Thomas Jefferson’s wife is Sally Hemings’ half sister.

As for light skin, dark skin, green skin, or no skin I don’t see that it makes any difference. However, Miss Hemings was light skinned (see preceding paragraph) by the account of her son (who lived in white Washington DC society after Jefferson’s death) and by an account of future President John Adams (when he met her in England), she was a good looking and pleasant woman.

In a nutshell: Jefferson never broke his promise or his marriage vows to his wife or lied to the nation about his personal life. If Jefferson had a sexual relationship with Miss. Hemings, he was most likely celibate the twelve years after his wife’s death. Personally, I hope Thomas Jefferson is the father of Sally Heming’s children. With the right author, it could be the love story for the ages.

As for lying to the public, Jefferson never commented publicly or privately on any personal attacks leveled at him, a policy John, Newt, and Bill are free to adopt.

www.monticello.org/plantation/hemingscontro/hemings-jefferson_contro.html

http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/John_Wayles

[NeilV]

I was not aware that Jefferson's wife was dead when he started having sex with his slave. I stand corrected on that. (As an ethical matter, I'm not sure which is worse -- cheating on a wife who has cancer or having sex with a slave. Tough call there. Still does not change my view that Jefferson was a great American.)

However, I still don't get the idea that somebody's sexual improprieties makes them unfit for office. No private employer (except a church or other religious institution) would fire or not hire an employee because of an extramarital affair. I've never asked or been asked about my sex live in a job interview.

I also think that most of the concern that people have on these issues is based on the critcizer's political views. The same people who thought Clinton was the devil incarnate for cheating on his wife now don't care that McCain cheated on his wife while she was sick and do care that Edwards cheated on his wife while she was sick.

To me, its all a distraction from the real issues. In Edwards' case, where he's not even running for anything, its just gossip.

ndvan

[dragonfly]

I also think that most of the concern that people have on these issues is based on the critcizer's political views.


That's probably true in part, but I think it's also that many people are just sick of liars in general being in positions of political power. I don't personally care who is screwing around with whom, but I do care that they deny the truth.


The same people who thought Clinton was the devil incarnate for cheating on his wife now don't care that McCain cheated on his wife while she was sick and do care that Edwards cheated on his wife while she was sick.

ndvan

Well, I'm not a man, but if I was married to HRC, I might be tempted to do the same.;) But otoh, I would never be interested in a position of power.
To me, it's no different that Edwards cheated on his wife while she was sick rather than while she was in good health. The act is the same. It may look sleazier, but it's no different imo.

[Scrapfe]

I was not aware that Jefferson's wife was dead when he started having sex with his slave. I stand corrected on that. (As an ethical matter, I'm not sure which is worse -- cheating on a wife who has cancer or having sex with a slave. Tough call there. Still does not change my view that Jefferson was a great American.)

Scrapfe: (In my eyes Thomas Jefferson was not just a great American, but one of the greatist men of all times.)

However, I still don't get the idea that somebody's sexual improprieties makes them unfit for office. No private employer (except a church or other religious institution) would fire or not hire an employee because of an extramarital affair. I've never asked or been asked about my sex live in a job interview.

Scrapfe: (That is why we call them public servants not private servants.)

Scrapfe: In that case you have never been a civilian employee of the U.S. Army the U.S.A.F. or N.A.S.A. It is a standard question if you acquire a security clearance for sensitive jobs like cutting the grass, taking out the trash, or picking up the mail, or weed eating around the parking lot. You will be asked this question while wearing a polygraph and two other very serious looking dudes dressed in black business suits and sun glasses look on:cool: The standard is not that you had an extra-marital affair :pbut that you lied about it on your application, or in your interview, and that your wife/husband/boytoy dosen't know. The same goes for casual drug use in youth, if you lie about it. It’s the lying that will hurt you not the weed smoking. If you lie on your application-interview it shows that you do not possess the moral turpitude to faithfully carry out and execute the duties expected of you. Can you spell B-L-A-C-K-M-A-I-L. It may shock you to know that between physical limitations, moral limitations, and educational deficiencies that only 28% of young Americans today even qualify for membership in the arm forces little less a security clearance. Some branches of the military are more rigorous than that. I often wonder how university professors like Ward Churchill could secure employment in a whore house if they had to meet these standards?

I also think that most of the concern that people have on these issues is based on the critcizer's political views. The same people who thought Clinton was the devil incarnate for cheating on his wife now don't care that McCain cheated on his wife while she was sick and do care that Edwards cheated on his wife while she was sick.

Scrapfe: Lets give Edwards a pass on cheating on his wife while she was sick, it's inmaturial. it's not the cheating its' the lying. Maybe he told her she didn't crank his tractor since having breast cancer surgery. And she gave him a signed exscuse, like he was a third grader playing hookie.

Scrapfe: (Or we can bash Newt for the same infraction.)

To me, its all a distraction from the real issues. In Edwards' case, where he's not even running for anything, its just gossip.

Scrapfe: I haven't kept up with the case and even I know the lying was last year while he was a serious presdential canidate.

ndvan


A while back I mentioned execution. So on a lighter thread.


The CIA had an opening for an assassin. After all the background
checks, interviews and tests were done, 3 finalists remained...two men and a woman.

For the final test, the CIA agents stood one of the men behind a large metal door and handed him a pistol. "We must know that you will follow our instructions to the letter no matter what the circumstances. Inside this room you will find your wife sitting in a chair with her back to the door, Kill her!!"

The man said, "You can't be serious. I could never shoot my wife."
The agent said. "Then you're not the right man for this job. Take your wife and go home".

The second man was given the same instructions. He took the gun and went into the room. All was quiet for about 5 minutes. The man came out with tears in his eyes.

The second man said, "I tried, but I can't kill my wife."
The agent said. "You don't have what it takes. Take your wife and go home."

Finally, it was the woman's turn. She was given the same instructions, to kill her husband. She took the gun opened the door and tiptoed into the room. Shots rang out, in rapid sucession. Then screaming, crashing, and banging on the walls. After a few minutes, all was quiet. The door opened slowly and there stood the woman wiping sweat from her brow. "THAT gun you gave me was loaded with blanks", she said. "I had to beat him to death with the chair."

MORAL: Women are crazy. Don't mess with them.

[Bodo]

I also think that most of the concern that people have on these issues is based on the critcizer's political views. The same people who thought Clinton was the devil incarnate for cheating on his wife now don't care that McCain cheated on his wife while she was sick and do care that Edwards cheated on his wife while she was sick.


For me, it wasn't the fact that he(Clinton and Edwards) was having an affair. It was the fact that he looked the American public in the eye and lied.

[tecumseh]

ndvan writes:
To me, its all a distraction from the real issues. In Edwards' case, where he's not even running for anything, its just gossip.

tecumseh replies: humm... I suspect I could have made a long list of public concerns that would qualify as an issues as more designed to distract than to generate usefull discussion.

of course some folks never seen to reflect on the blemish in there own eye, yet becomes so holier than thou about the blemish in someone else's eye.

then dragonfly writes:
That's probably true in part, but I think it's also that many people are just sick of liars

tecumseh sezs:
the first part of this sentence is certainly an understatement (X10).

as to the latter portion of your sentence.... no one enjoys being lied to or deceived, but everyone does it. so what ya' a gonna' do??? go live in a cave and only be subject to living with the lies you tell to yourself?

ps... the subjects of distraction and lying are not so unrelated... the first typically requires that an individual is capable of lying to oneself to be effective.

[deknow]

1. in this day and age, anyone who thought keeping slaves was acceptable (whether one was sleeping with them or not) would not be eligible for president....so this argument about jefferson is rather moot.

2. there is a big fat difference between telling a lie, and maintaining the lie when faced with the truth (like, when their are specific allegations of sleeping with a specific person).

3. there are truth's that are hard to determine (like, who is sane and who is insane), and there are hard and clear cut truths (like, who edwards slept with) that are clear cut "truth vs lies".

deknow

[LEAD PIPE]

I say put them all on the polygraph so we can see how what they really believe. They do that in my area for the winners of fishing tournaments. I don't think it's unreasonable to do it for a guy with his finger on the button.


Oh and we also polygraph all police applicants before we hire them.

[dragonfly]

I say put them all on the polygraph so we can see how what they really believe.

The problem with that is that really good liars can beat the polygraph.

[NeilV]

deknow says: "there is a big fat difference between telling a lie, and maintaining the lie when faced with the truth"

What is the difference? In the first situation its wrong to lie. In the second situation, people know you are lying so its both wrong and stupid. Everybody lies sometimes. Little lies that save hurt feelings aren't even necessarily wrong. Lying about stuff that matters is wrong the first time, the second time, and thereafter.

I also don't get the idea that its somehow more wrong to lie to the public about cheating on a spouse than to cheat on the spouse in the first place. Assuming that this sort of private, immoral activity is relevant at all to politics (and it isn't) the real harm is done by the initial infidelity. That harm is primarily to the people involved in the misconduct and the cheated on spouse.

The lying to the public really does not hurt anybody, since its really a problem for the spouse to deal with anyway. In fact, there are some practical reasons that politicians who cheat would lie about it including: (1) the cheating did not hurt the general public and is not the general public's business; and (2) it probably harms the cheated on spouse more than anybody for the whole world to be talking about the politicians spouse's affair.

In fact, the one thing that gets me mad in the cheating politician context is when, after everybody knows about it, the cheating politician will drag the spouse in front of the press and say how sorry he is with the spouse having to sit there and act adoring, forgiving and happy. That is just preposterous and mean to the poor wife. And its apparently all done to satisfy the part of the public who demands "honesty" about this totally private matter that is nobody's business to begin with.

Also, I don't get the idea that people don't want a cheating politician because they don't want to be lied to. All that it means if it is known that politician got caught cheating is that he GOT CAUGHT. For all you know, everybody in every presidential debate cheated on his wife (or something equally bad) and you just don't know it. That's no way to pick a leader. Vote based on the politician's probable policies and his or her political skills that it will take to lead.

And the real truth is that any politician who tells the truth all the time would never get elected in the first place and could not get anything done if he did.

Finally, Scrapfe, that's a good joke. (Barry, that joke is also not political or religious and sexist is not yet on the banned list. We gotta be able to joke about something.)

[mike haney]

i liked Chelsea Clintons reply to that college boy sandbagger that asked about her dads affair" ...that, sir, is none of your business..." she was never asked again while speaking on behaf of her mother. now if her dad had just been as smart...

[JohnK and Sheri]

>>>The lying to the public really does not hurt anybody, since its really a problem for the spouse to deal with anyway. In fact, there are some practical reasons that politicians who cheat would lie about it including: (1) the cheating did not hurt the general public and is not the general public's business; and (2) it probably harms the cheated on spouse more than anybody for the whole world to be talking about the politicians spouse's affair.<<<

I guess the fact they cheated and lied is bad enough, but politicians do that on more important things than sexual affairs. At first glance it may not be the public's business but what bothers me is the lack of judgment on the politician's part. They should have more sense than to put themselves in such a vulnerable position, given the potential of a media feeding frenzy and manipulation by one's opponents. If they will lie to cover it up what more will they do to avoid public exposure? I certainly don't want someone with so much power having to ponder that question.
Sheri

[Eaglerock]

[QUOTE=JohnK and Sheri;343350 I guess the fact they cheated and lied is bad enough, but politicians do that on more important things than sexual affairs. At first glance it may not be the public's business but what bothers me is the lack of judgment on the politician's part. I certainly don't want someone with so much power having to ponder that question.
Sheri[/QUOTE]

As in Bush and Cheney, Clinton, McCain, Kilpatrick, Spitzer, Craig, Stevens, Sen. David Vitter, Jefferson, US Attorney Firings, Mark Foley, Nixon, Kennedy,
Iran-Contra scandal in November 1986. The complicated affair consisted of three parts: The Reagan administration sold arms to Iran, which was seeking out materials for a lengthy war against Iraq. In exchange for the arms, Iran was to use its influence to help negotiate the release of American hostages held in Lebanon. The third element involved the funds raised by the selling of the arms, which were channeled to Nicaraguan rebels ("Contras") fighting against the Sandinista government.

These actions by the Reagan administration violated a number of American laws and policies: Arms sales to Iran were prohibited; the U.S. government had forbidden ransom for hostages; and it was illegal to fund the Contras above Congressional limits.

There were three investigations into the Iran-Contra scandal. The first was by a commission appointed by President Reagan, the second by Congress (which was televised in 1987) and a final inquiry by a special federal prosecutor. http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2003/11/20/in_depth_politics/whoswho584748.shtml

Ohio Gov. Bob Taft, Hart and Rice, Washington Mayor Marion Barry, Bob Packwood, Former Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham was sentenced to eight years and four months in prison for taking $2.4 million in homes, yachts and other bribes in a corruption scheme unmatched in the annals of Congress,

Vincent "Buddy" Cianci, Jr, James Traficant, etc.

They are ALL tempted... parties have no control over crime or someones ethics or their code of morality.