Why wont they go up.... and what to do maybe

[WayneW]

Should i be concerned. On saturday, i decided to stop feeding because of the huge quantities of syrup they were taking without building in the upper deep. At that point they had a few spots on 3 or 4 of the frames in the upper super about 1/2 drawn.

Today, i took a peek under the inner cover to see their progress, and the frames dont look any different. There are still only spots here and there on a few frames that they have started on, but nothing is fully drawn, and there are relitively few bees up there. 200 or less.

The bottom deep is HEAVY( i'd bet over 90 lbs), and packed with bees. Could they be honey bound from over feeding and not able to make it upwards?

Bearding seems to be getting heavier in recent days too.

Should i maybe swap top box for bottom, or swap a few frames? The top box is wax coated plastic and lower box is wired wax if that helps.

Don't mean to seem like a spaz, i know i ask alot on here. I just dont want to have to deal with a swarm, or worse yet, lose the bees.:confused:

[Joseph Clemens]

Incentive. They will only expand and occupy more space if they really need to. Increased availability of nectar and pollen leads to raising more bees, more bees can harvest an increasing percentage of nectar and pollen, if it continues to be available. It just progresses this way until the bees need the additional space, or if the availability of nectar and pollen is somehow reduced then expansion can abruptly cease.

If you're dedicated to getting this hive to expand into an additional super, I'd swap four full frames from the lower super with four empty frames from the upper super, then feed 1:1 syrup and pollen supplement to inspire population building.

[BjornBee]

You may want to feed away from the hive so it simulates a flow, and stimulates the queen, and kicks the wax production into gear.

I find inside feeding great for filling drawn comb, but less than adequate for stimulating wax production. And Yes, the bees will fill in all available comb from your wax foundation before they move onto the wax. This may not be really due to the wax foundation at this point of the year as it seems when you get to August around here, they stop building comb altogether. Your plastic will not be harmed, but feel glad that you do not have wax foundation on at this time. They would be chewing it to pieces if you did.

Here is what they do to wax foundation at this time of the year.....

http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x236/BjornBee/?action=view&current=beepictures131.jpg

You may want to bait them up by placing a frame or two from below.

[high rate of speed]

Top feeders will lure the bees up better,you are up against time now.pour it to em.
The bearding you are seeing is from the heat.Good luck.:)

[WayneW]

@ high Rate......... I was using a top feeder and had to stop feeding due to the high volume of syurp they were consuming. 3 gallons (15 lbs of sugar) in a week. I believe thats where the added weight in the lower deep came from, since their numbers didnt seem to have increased, so i backed off feeding for a few days.

I will start to feed again tomorrow, but maybe feed away from the hive and use a 1:1 ratio, as i hear that ratio best for brood build up.

@Bjorn Thanks for the input. If i feed away from the hive, how far away do i go?......... If they will gather in large numbers at a time, i'm afraid i can only go maybe 80 feet or so from the hive, i'm pretty urban here. If the numbers would be small then i could possibly put the syrup closer to the house, maybe 150 ft........ I had read 100's of yards, but for my situation, thats impossible (at least till the neighbors get used to them). If i swap 2 frames, what should i look for on the frames i move, and should the queen be on the moved frame?

@ Joe Clemens Thank you, thats exactly what i'm trying to achive........ a larger population to over winter the hive. I will swap frames tomorrow, and start 1:1 feeding.

[high rate of speed]

Persnally I wouldnt move any frames.We are getting ready to go into winter.Feed again,and if they dont touch the new super,take it off till next season.

[BjornBee]

Wayne,
Didn't really think of the neighbors... ;) Do what you can. You can always change it if it's a problem. I think feeding a distance is good due to a lack of bee communication language for anything less than something like 100 feet, and the general chaos it creates when so many bees are looking for the free food and nearby hives are tested by many. This is kind of important when dealing with larger numbers of hives. But with one or two, distance becomes less important.

And with the goldenrod and aster flows we have in Pennsylvania, I would not hesitate to take a few frames (honey frames - without queen) and move them up. With your feeding, and the fall flow still to come, there is absolutely no reason to think that they can not fill out another box.

[high rate of speed]

Hey wayne,
Im not from your neck of the woods,but if you have any drawn comb I would install about 4 frames of drawn comb in the box of foundation.To late in the year to draw foundation in the brood nest.

[odfrank]

Feed, feed, feed, medicate medicate, plastic that, plastic this. A ninety pound, sugar bound brood chamber. Sheesh.....

[high rate of speed]

Not sure frank,just my first day.:)

[BjornBee]

Sure odfrank. Many do. However many don't start at the same point along the path that you are standing at. ;) To truly help, it may be necessary to realize that. Nobody starts with the knowledge and expertise you perhaps suggest.

[akaneo]

Did you add any extra wax to the plastic foundation before you put it in? My bees really hate the plastic foundation, they will not draw it out as it comes from the store I have to brush extra wax on it to even get them to look at it, then they will only draw it out as a last resort when they are totally out of room.

Also I wouldn't mix plastic and wax foundation in the same box, I got away with it in separate boxes but not in the same box.

My 3 cents,
Richard

[high rate of speed]

Mixing wax and plastic works all the time on thosands of supers.The bees will work the plastic founation if the flow is strong enough.

[WayneW]

@akaneo.... The hive (original deep) is wired wax, the new foundation is wax coated Rite Cell from Mann Lake.

As for the mixing...........that seems to be either personal preference, and/or different situations. I hear some say it dont matter, and others say it's a crime........ but no definative answer.

"Ask 10 people get 11 answers" That's expected, and it's why i come here..... yes i'm new and foolish perhaps. I come here to ask questions and learn. I also read.....here.........books and various sites.

Thank you all for the advice, now i get to piece together this new found pool of know-how, and dive in head first.

[high rate of speed]

Hey Wayne,
Make sure you use a helmet.LOL.:)
Good luck.

[Ross]

The hive (original deep) is wired wax, the new foundation is wax coated Rite Cell from Mann Lake.And there you have the answer. The bees don't like plastic. Will they work it? Sometimes when everything is right. Late in the year bees are less likely to draw wax anyway. They aren't in expansion mode, they are in compaction mode, back filling the brood nest is normal. Save the plastic for spring and a strong flow.

[beehoppers]

I've had real good luck getting the bees to draw Pierco in wood frames. I spray the foundation with a pint mix of 1-1 syrup with a bit of Honey-B-Healthy and about 5 drops of wintergreen extract. They are drawing under feed now.