Nuc just wont get into gear

[kopeck]

I've got a Nuc that I picked up in mid-June that just doesn't want to grow. It was a 4 frame Nuc and even though the original 4 frames are surrounded by drawn comb.

The other nuc I picked up (same day, same supplier) while not a "boomer" is building slow and stead. Right from day one the other Nuc has just seemed stronger (more flying bees etc).

When I inspect the colony it has a pretty decent brood pattern with capped brood, larvae and eggs on those first 4 frames, no where else. Out of frustration I removed one of the drawn open combs and replaced it with foundation, it was older comb so I thought maybe they just didn't like it.

I've also done a sticky board test and I found 1 mite.

They also don't seem to be all that interested in the syrup in the feeder although they're at least up there now, for a long time I never even saw a bee up there.

I'm not sure how to proceed. There's something wrong but I just can't see it.

Maybe the queen?

K

[Hillside]

Patience is a virtue.

Your weak hive probably just started a little weaker and had farther to go to build up. Like you say, from day one, the stronger hive seemed more active. If the brood pattern looks good, the queen is probably not the problem. This one will come along if you give it a little time.

If you've got good comb available, put it in. Forcing them to make comb will only slow them down more.

[kopeck]

Patience is a virtue.

Your weak hive probably just started a little weaker and had farther to go to build up. Like you say, from day one, the stronger hive seemed more active. If the brood pattern looks good, the queen is probably not the problem. This one will come along if you give it a little time.

If you've got good comb available, put it in. Forcing them to make comb will only slow them down more.

The reason I put foundation in is they just seemed to be chewing up that one frame. It wasn't a great frame to start with and it was on the old side so I figured what the heck. I'm just worried I won't get them built up and ready for winter (yeah, kind of early for that kind of thought but this is Maine).

K

[IndianaHoney]

Do you have two deeps on them? If you are feeding with a top feeder with two deeps on this hive and they are in the bottom, they may not know the syrup is there. If the syrup is not beside the brood nest already, try putting the syrup in a division board feeder and put it in the bottom deep with them. If the syrup is older than a week, replace it with two parts water one part sugar. You may also want to give them a frame of capped brood from a strong hive to give them some extra help. Also check out their pollen stores. If they don't have much pollen, give them a pollen patty, or a frame from another hive with lots of pollen in it. I know there is pollen available from foraging, but if you give them a real pollen patty, they will take it and put it to good use.

For winter you may also want to give them another pollen patty or two. If they are busy raising brood for expansion without very many foragers, it will be likely that they will need the extra pollen in the winter when the queen starts laying again. If this hive does not take off by the end of July, I would requeen. if all that fails, and they don't have enough bees or stores to get through winter, you can combine or try to overwinter as a single deep. This can be done with a candy board and a pollen patty or two. If you overwinter as a single deep, it may help to wrap in tarpaper.

Edit to add: Forgot to mention, if there is a nectar flow in your area, remove the syrup because they will not take it.

[kopeck]

Single deep, I want them to build up a bit more before I slap that second deep on there.

I'll dump the feeder in the next day or so and try new syrup. There has been a flow on (although I think it's slowed a bit) but I don't see them building stores either.

Just not a lot of workers out and about.

I like your suggestion on the pollen patty. I would love to get them into a double deep, but if things don't change I might have to try overwintering in a single deep.

K

[BjornBee]

Here is a new angle..... We deal with insects. We are farmers. Not all queens are good. Not all hives are productive. Not all bees do what we want.

How about requeening? how about doing something most books slightly mention, that being "culling". Everyone spends huge amounts of time, huge amounts of labor, trying to baby along a hive that always seems to do close to nothing. Some, will actually do a fall combine after realizing that the hive has little chance of overwintering. Most however, will continue the regiment of feeding, babysitting, and wasting a lot of effort in a hive that usually dies anyway. (And yes, this is where someone will comment on that one "exception" of a hive they had some while back that turned out to be a boom hive the next year. But I'd rather have the 95% of the hives that were corrected in the meantime that were productive this year and overwintered)

So why do (some) beekeepers wait till fall to do such combining, if at all? You should be constantly monitoring your hives, culling out bad queens, doing manipulations to keep your hives at top performance.

We deal with insects. Some will be good. Some will not be good.

And so you find out after exhaustive search of why the hive stinks. Then what? You sound as if no matter what, you will continue down this path, and are willing to overwinter this hive in a single. Then next year, odds are this hive, if alive, will be sending out drones to mate with your other queens in the area. And then another sub-par season, supersedure if the bees feel like it, and so on....

As with most things, we spend 90% of our time and money on 10% at the bottom.

I'm not saying that finding the "whys" are not important. Of course we all want to grow and learn so perhaps, if its a beekeeper problem, we can not have a repeat performance. I'm just saying at the end of the day, we still have a few duds along the way, and no matter what, you can not put your finger on it.

Good Luck!

[rmhcattle]

when i have this problem i put a polen paty on top takes about 2 week but works good

[Keith Jarrett]

that just doesn't want to grow. (more flying bees etc).

They also don't seem to be all that interested in the syrup
K

This sounds like NOSEMA C too a tee.

[kopeck]

Here is a new angle..... We deal with insects. We are farmers. Not all queens are good. Not all hives are productive. Not all bees do what we want.

How about requeening? how about doing something most books slightly mention, that being "culling". Everyone spends huge amounts of time, huge amounts of labor, trying to baby along a hive that always seems to do close to nothing. Some, will actually do a fall combine after realizing that the hive has little chance of overwintering. Most however, will continue the regiment of feeding, babysitting, and wasting a lot of effort in a hive that usually dies anyway. (And yes, this is where someone will comment on that one "exception" of a hive they had some while back that turned out to be a boom hive the next year. But I'd rather have the 95% of the hives that were corrected in the meantime that were productive this year and overwintered)

So why do (some) beekeepers wait till fall to do such combining, if at all? You should be constantly monitoring your hives, culling out bad queens, doing manipulations to keep your hives at top performance.

We deal with insects. Some will be good. Some will not be good.

And so you find out after exhaustive search of why the hive stinks. Then what? You sound as if no matter what, you will continue down this path, and are willing to overwinter this hive in a single. Then next year, odds are this hive, if alive, will be sending out drones to mate with your other queens in the area. And then another sub-par season, supersedure if the bees feel like it, and so on....

As with most things, we spend 90% of our time and money on 10% at the bottom.

I'm not saying that finding the "whys" are not important. Of course we all want to grow and learn so perhaps, if its a beekeeper problem, we can not have a repeat performance. I'm just saying at the end of the day, we still have a few duds along the way, and no matter what, you can not put your finger on it.

Good Luck!

Wow...

Maybe I hit a sore spot. None the less I don't disagree with anything you said.

requeening is something I considered, I just wasn't sure if that was the best place to start since the brood pattern didn't look all that bad.

As far as culling goes (if your talking about the colony and not just the queen) I guess in the end that's a bitter pill to swallow since I've had this colony for less then a month and for just shy of a hundred bucks I was hoping to get it going again.

Re: Nosema C, the syurp I have on there is treated with Fumidil-B, BUT since they wont take it obviously that wont help much. There isn't any other signs of Nosema (spotting etc). I could send some Bees out for testing I guess.

thanks,

K