Another mistake--how to fix it?

[Ellen]

I've been reading here about top bar hives and in other forums on using foundationless frames. I foolishly decided to combine the two in Langstroth hives.

As a result, I have a thriving hive with 4 medium 8-frame boxes that are all stuck together. I put the tops of the frames in without the rest of the frames, and spaced them across the hives.

I wonder whether I have accidentally built a vertical top bar hive?

I am in the process of building a 46" long top bar hive that's 8" tall. The walls are square, not angled.

Would it make sense to use a wire to separate the hive boxes, then transfer the "top bars" to the top bar hive box? I could rip spacers that are the same height as the frame tops and that are the width needed to make 1 1/4" and 1 1/2" spaces for the bees.

What am I overlooking with this plan? I am the queen of overlooking the obvious.

Thanks,

Ellen

[buckbee]

I am in the process of building a 46" long top bar hive that's 8" tall. The walls are square, not angled.



It sounds like you are just about to repeat the same mistake.

Bees like to build tall comb when they can. Forcing them to build wide, shallow comb was Langstroth's biggest mistake, IMO.

http://www.biobees.com/index.php?photos

[Cold Bees]

So,

What happened with this "mixed medium" arrangement? Did the bees draw out on the foundationless frames?

[Ellen]

Michael Bush says that deeper hives put more strain on the comb. I bought cypress 1x12s for the sides and ends, so I could do 11" deep.

[Ellen]

The entire four boxes are jammed with brood and honey.

[Michael Bush]

There are several things you can do with your current hive. You can, as you say, use a wire to cut them apart and see what they look like. If the combs are on the frames you can probably cut them loose from the sides and run a "Warre'" type hive. If you want them in regular frames you can cut them to fit and rubber band them into frames. If you want to build top bar type swarm catching frames you could put them in those. If the new hive is the same width as the top bars in the current hive (19") then you could probably cut them loose from the sides and just put them in the top bar hive.

[beemanlee]

I've been reading here about top bar hives... I foolishly decided to combine the two in Langstroth hives... What am I overlooking with this plan? Ellen

Ellen,
If you are wanting to try this method and not have the same thing happen again use a dowl for the end bar to keep the comb from going all the way to the side of the super... This can be done by drilling a small hole to put the dowl into...
Start this frame in the brood box center frame position and space it so the frame tops are equal distance apart... The bees will draw this frame out with brood comb size cells...The bees may also put drone cells along the edge of the frame where the dowl is placed... Keep doing this till you have the number of frames you are wanting...

To make a larger size frame and box you can use this same concept, just wire the TB frames you have made to the larger top bar and start the process of making the new frames doing the same way... Remember the frame spacing is the only thing that you need to keep doing the same...
You can also use foundation to get the job started faster... By making a saw cut in the top bar the size of the plastic foundation and the width... Use a small drill and drill two hole in the side of the frame and plastic foundation at each end to hold it together with a nail .... Do this super by super and them you will have a legal hive that can be fully checked at any time...
Lee...