Choosing a pistol for hunting/backcountry bear defense

[Ben Brewcat]

My wife will be going on her first backpack trip ever with me in July and we are spending more and more time in our pop-up camper. Over dinner tonight she mentioned that the smoked salmon would be great to bring backpacking :eek:. After she performed the Heimlich on me and I stopped sputtering, I explained why we bag our food, take great care with our meal prep, and whatnot when backpacking. We get bears in our YARD for crying out loud.

So I got permission for a pistol! Hippie girl's really coming around on this gun thing :D. Background: I'm not a cool-gun collector and am not into having a gun so I can show it to other people for oohs and aahs, this will be a tool. It won't be conceal-carried, this is a sidearm for hunting and camping (not hunting with the pistol). I'm comfortable with rifles and shotguns but have never fired a pistol. I commit to learning how to use it safely and accurately and I enjoy shooting. I'm 6'1 and 175 pounds.

So questions: cartridge for last-ditch defending against an attacking black bear? They're the worst villain I worry about, anything that'll do a bear will sure ruin a mountain lion's day. Revolver or semiauto, pros/cons?

Considerations: prefer not too huge and heavy, but I know it'll have to put some foot-pounds down to help much with a bear. My wife, who reluctantly learns how to safe and occasionally fire all the guns, should be able to fire it reasonably accurately in extremis but only if I'm already torn apart or too far away to save the dogs or whatnot. This'll be my weapon. I don't need a cannon for it's own sake, but I do need something that'll put the hurt on a 400-pound animal. Should have adequate stopping power to put one down with accurate shots if it comes to that.

Haven't researched much yet (I come here first!), so I don't really know what sidearms go for, but initial budget maybe $300 to $500?

[Ben Brewcat]

(Later)... Holy cow, I've seen trucks that run that cost less than these things! What gives? Used maybe? Anyway I'm leaning towards .357 mag but can't find info on what FPS/ footpound difference barrel length makes. Any thoughts/help appreciated!

[Barry Digman]

(Later)... Holy cow, I've seen trucks that run that cost less than these things! What gives? Used maybe? Anyway I'm leaning towards .357 mag but can't find info on what FPS/ footpound difference barrel length makes. Any thoughts/help appreciated!


Bullseye. Where's Bullseye?

[Michael Bush]

I have a nice little five shot .357 Taurus. It's more of a pocket pistol. Even with hand loads (which are about half again the foot pounds) it's tolerable to shoot but still a little light for bear. I wouldn't worry too much about shooting a black bear with it, but I'd be pretty nervous taking on a grizzly. My son's "Raging Bull" Taurus in .454 Casull would probably be better, but it weighs a ton (it has to). But, as Ross Siegfried said of a "Howda" (a backup pistol for an African safari), it's the gun for "when you need something dramatic to happen". That's how the .454 is. You can load it with .45 long colts for target practice and plinking. I haven't had the nerve to shoot it but it looks painful when my son does. And then he hand loads it up a bit from the factory loads. (why would you want to?) It was pretty reasonable in price compared to the other big bore, "extra" magnum pistols.

If you want to spend some money, a Desert Eagle in .50 AE is really cool looking. :) But for bear time situations, I'd much prefer a double action revolver. All you have to remember is to point and pull the trigger. With an semi-auto you have to remember which of the 0-5 conditions it's in and figure out how to get it into condition 0.

Personally, I'd just take my lightweight five shot .357, some heavy hand loads, and try to avoid the bears. :) If I were HUNTING bear it would be a different story.

[WannaBee]

I would carry the Sig P220. It is .45 caliber. This is my favorite carry piece. It is a double action, which means that you do not have to cock the hammer to shoot. It is very simple to disassemble and reassemble. The .45 would stop a bear or a mountain lion. Used, they start a $400 and go up from there. No matter what handgun you choose to go with make sure that you practice until you can hit what you are aiming at;).

[LEAD PIPE]

I would go with a 357 sig round then choose a sig that fits you best. Big $ though. For a cheep alternative I would get a used SW model 66 in 357 mag.

[Hillside]

You're talking black bears here, right?

Black bears don't warrant carrying a gun. They'll try to steal your food, so you have to know how to live in bear country, but black bears are really not very aggressive. People spend all kinds of time in black bear country and never have to carry a gun.

If you're that risk averse, you may want to reconsider going backpacking at all.

[tecumseh]

don't know much about bears... I would assume a kodiak is a bit harder to bring down than a black bear....

my favorite hand gun (and I typically pick a weapon that fits in my hand comfortable) is a colt python 357. I like the idea that you can easily exchange ammo between 357 (which is reported to shoot thru an engine block although none of my friends will lend me theirs to do the experiement) and 38 special. I bought the hand gun used for about $150 bucks.

[longrangedog]

Black bears have killed a couple of hikers in the last few years in the North Georgia mountains. I believe one was a child and the other a woman. I love the outdoors and don't allow black bears to deter my activities. I carry a SIG P220 and have a high degree of confidence that I'm well armed. The chances of an encounter with a human predator, which is my primary reason for carrying a pistol, are greater than a black bear attack. Grizzly bears are a different issue and if I thought an encounter resulting in an attack was a real possibility I would either stay away from that area or carry a short barreled 12 gauge pump loaded with a combination of slugs and buckshot. I don't believe any handgun can be counted on to reliably stop an enraged grizzly. Keep in mind that the 30-30 rifle, which today is considered a very mild round and would not be the first choice for a grizzly rifle, is considerably more powerful than the most powerful handguns.

[Kieck]

A .357 should be enough for black bear. The bigger problem might be hitting your target if the situation arose.

I've talked to two fellows who were attacked by grizzlies in the past; both suggested pretty much what longrangedog suggested: a shotgun with a large capacity for shells, loaded with big buckshot. One of the two was carrying a shotgun, just as described, when a grizzly attacked him. He got off two shots before the bear got him. His shot or shots killed the bear, but the dying bear still mauled him. And bent the barrel of his 12-gauge in the attack.

The other recommendation that I've heard and read repeatedly for bears is using "bear spray" (pepper spray, designed to stop bear attacks), rather than firearms. I understand it's easier to use, and maybe more effective.

Disclaimer: I have no personal experience with bear attacks. I have encountered black bears occasionally while hiking, but have never even been threatened by a bear.

[Ben Brewcat]

Yep, regular Colorado black bears. They're on the small range for blacks (a 400-pounder is HUGE), and at least around here are very human-habituated. It's a long-shot that I would ever use it, and I'd sure use spray first, but several people have been injured 'round here and there are my dogs to think about. A cub scout who didn't take instructions seriously and had a candy bar in his tent has badly mauled a while back just down the highway; the thing just grabbed him by the head through the tent and started shaking. We're very good on bear discipline but I believe in hope for the best but prepare for the worst. As the drought and climate change progress bears here at least are getting a lot more "assertive" in getting fed. And there are also unfortunately a lot of fools moving to the woods and figure as long as they have internet and can get a pizza delivered their garbage is as safe as it was in suburban California. This trains bears the wrong way unfortunately, and even the Division of Wildlife officer's I talk to say it'll keep getting worse, probably a lot worse.

Don't get me wrong, I love wildlife and will protect it. But I'll protect my wife, my dogs, and my self if it comes down to it.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

Bullseye. Where's Bullseye?

Smith & Wesson makes a 629 Mountain Gun that is intended for backpacking in the woods and mountains. It is a four inch 44 magnum revolver that has been trimmed down for it's lightest possible weight. It used to be available in 45 Long Colt but is now only available in 44 Mag.

It can also shoot 44 Special, a shortened caliber and much lighter load for practice which is a good thing as shooting the magnums is rather unpleasant. I would not use anything less than 44 mag for griz.

For the little Black bears a .357 should be enough, and truthfully I would rather you hit your target with a smaller .357 (which can also shoot the less intimidating 38 special) than to miss with a 44 mag.

The most important thing about having a gun when backpacking is to have it at the ready. Surprising a bear with cubs will not offer you much time to decide if you have to shoot much less time to dig it out of your pack.

Bottom line is if you are a gun guy and avid shooter you should have no problems with the magnum. If you are not then I would sacrifice a little caliber and performance for the ability to actually put lead in the target.

Gun ownership is a serious business. It is not something you buy and put in the closet awaiting for an 'occasion'. You need to be familiar with the weapon and train, train, train.

[pumpkinpiper]

I was a guide in Alaska for a number of years, and personally I was always more afraid of a client that brought a hand gun than I was of the bear. Most folks can't hit where they aim with a hand gun in a prepared shooting position. Throw in the fact that a charging bear will not only pucker your cheeks shut, but most have not seen a bear close-up and start shaking like a hooker in church when they do. This is NOT a situation that you want to be holding a hand gun. IMO, the chance of you having a negative encounter is so small, that it should not even be a consideration for you. BUT, if it puts your mind at ease, bear repellent spray would be a much safer option for the both of you. PP

[George Fergusson]

Whatever you get, practice, practice, practice. It doesn't help having a handgun if you can't hit anything with it, plus it's fun! When I started shooting a .45 ACP, I couldn't hit a 5 gallon bucket at 20 feet. 2000 rounds later I was consistently hitting a 30 gallon milk can at 75 yards. That was 30 years ago. I haven't kept up practicing, but I can still hit a 5 gallon bucket at 20 feet :)

[mistergil]

.357 with a 6" barrel and extreme shock or extra shock ammunition.

[cow pollinater]

I spent two summers in bear country leading mules all over the back country. I've had hundreds of bear encounters including one where a sack of grain that I was using as a pillow was jerked out from under my head in the middle of the night and dropped only after I gave chase with a pair of hoof trimmers. I always carried a pistol(that I have put thousands of rounds through and have a permit to carry) but never saw the need to use it on a bear.
The same bears that you are worried about don't want an encounter with you any more than you do with them. Be aware that they are there, always give them an out so that they don't feel threatened, and enjoy them.

Now as far as what to carry, a forty calibre Glock is as simple and as deadly as it gets and is cheap enough to fire that you can train with the same ammunition that you plan to carry so that there are no suprises when the time comes. Practice, practice, practice, you will respond in the same way that you train. Just save it for the two legged critters and leave the bears alone.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

Bear Advisory


The Forest Service has issued a BEAR WARNING in the national forests for this summer. They're urging everyone to protect themselves by wearing bells and carrying pepper spray.

Campers should be alert for signs of fresh bear activity, and they should be able to tell the difference between Black Bear dung and Grizzy Bear dung.

Black Bear dung is rather small and round. Sometimes you can see fruit seeds and/or squirrel fur in it.

Grizzly Bear dung has bells in it, and smells like pepper spray!

[michituck]

357 magnum with Hydra shock or +P ammo.
My favorite saying about the "new" 357, 9mm and 40 caliber is simple.
There are more felons walking around that have been shot multiple times with any of these but the 357 Magnum.
The 357 Magnum has the knockdown and kill power.
The Sig 357 is just a necked down 40 caliber and not worth the $$$$.
I have worked security and carried all and always go back to the 357.
Don't even consider a Desert Eagle. They are heavy and can be tempermental. I have one in 357 and would never buy another one.

[Joel]

"Grizzly Bear dung has bells in it, and smells like pepper spray!" :D

I would certainly go with BB's suggestions on size, in bear country size matters. I've packed in Grizzly contry and live with my bees right in the heart of Black Bear country and my son and I do canoe trips deep in the adirondack back country every year. I have a dozen black bear encounters a year. I've had boar charge me in my yard, it is the most harrowing experiance I've ever had. I've never seen a grizzly in the wild, mainly because I've been in the lower 48. I concentrate on prevention rather than intervention but am well aware that if I do have a bad encounter unarmed it will likely be my last. Many bear attacks take place because folks end up with food, a candy bar, snack bar, apple, (a bag of grain :) )in the tent at night and when the bear comes for food the ensuing struggle inside the tent is few minutes of screaming and clawing and bear who has food for the week until the campsite is found by the searchers. A shotgun is way too cumbersome for backpacking and not much use inside a tent where many attacks happen. If I were carrying a sidearm in the backcountry it would be on my hip, for convenience and access.

I've done combat shooting with 4 sidearms, .38 and .357 revolvers and 2 glocks- 9 MM and .45. I love the .45 but would not want my wife in a tent with me in stress situation with anything other than a revolver. It would be way too easy for her to shoot the bear once with double action and me 5 times with single action and get away with it. :) Keep in mind whatever you choose your wife or anyone you pack with, will need to be as proficient as you and that means a good handgun course up front and regular practice. Everything but training goes out the window in a life or death situation.

Hopefully your trips will be problem free but if you are spending alot of time in bear country and want to be armed get a large caliber, training and practice, practice, practice. Spend some time learning about bear habits and attacks. Attacks do happen and there are several situations where trained rangers have gone out with rifles alone to do in a problem bear (Grizzlys mainly) and been found dead with several shots fired. It is interesting reading but does make it a little harder to sleep in bear country.

By the way Ben, I've backpacked extensively near you. About 25 years ago a hunter claimed to have gotten attacked by a Grizzly and claimed to have killed it by stabbing it to death with an arrow. For some strange reason he was charged (criminally not by the bear) anyway!

[Ben Brewcat]

Your story doesn't surprise me a bit Joel, I've met some really amazing people in the woods that shouldn't be alone in a nature center much less the wilderness :).

Is there any advantage to a single-action revolver? Seems like unless you really tune down the trigger pull or maybe stuff the thing into a crowded stuff sack loaded, a double-action would be more usable. Is it a cost thing? Is there such thing as a used, reasonably reliable .357 mag 6" barrel for $300?

[cow pollinater]

Some of the guys that I work with can get you pretty much whatever you want in like new condition for around fifty bucks. Most of them have only been fired once or twice and just have a few scuff marks where the serial number used to be...

Yeah, I need new freinds.:D

[mistergil]

Your story doesn't surprise me a bit Joel, I've met some really amazing people in the woods that shouldn't be alone in a nature center much less the wilderness :).

Is there any advantage to a single-action revolver? Seems like unless you really tune down the trigger pull or maybe stuff the thing into a crowded stuff sack loaded, a double-action would be more usable. Is it a cost thing? Is there such thing as a used, reasonably reliable .357 mag 6" barrel for $300?


I picked up a .357 6" revolver for the wife for 275$. It's a stainless S&W, she loves it. A lot of shooters unloaded S&W's protesting some anti gun thing they did. Can't remember exactly what the deal was so there are still some out there.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

Is there any advantage to a single-action revolver? Seems like unless you really tune down the trigger pull or maybe stuff the thing into a crowded stuff sack loaded, a double-action would be more usable. Is it a cost thing? Is there such thing as a used, reasonably reliable .357 mag 6" barrel for $300?

There is NO advantage to a single action revolver over a double action revolver. I think Joel was making a funny comparing a double action revolver to a single action automatic pistol.

A single action revolver has to be cocked by pulling the hammer back before each pull of the trigger. A double action revolver only needs to have the trigger pulled to fire, it's double action cocks and fires the weapon.

You would carry the gun in a holster on your hip or a sling on your chest, perhaps a holster on your pack within easy reach for emergencies. Do not pack it inside the pack where it would be of no use to you in case of emergency.

Self defense revolvers are generally four inch barrel or shorter. A good hunting gun would have a barrel length of six inches or longer. Six inch barrel is too cumbersome and difficult to draw from a holster in a panic situation. All law enforcement weapons were four and two inch barrels when revolvers were being used. Four inch for general police work and worn on the hip, and two inch for shoulder rigs and ankle holsters.

The brew ha ha about Smith and Wesson dates back prior to the law suits that were being brought forth by cities against firearms manufacturers. It was these suits that drove the prices of firearms way up having to generate revenue to pay the suits and for the legal expenses.

At the time the British owned S&W, kind of like AMF owning Harley Davidson. The Brits had no idea how to run a firearms manufacturing company and kowtowed to the forces leveling suits against them. That and they discontinued models right and left replacing them with more politically correct models of inferior design.

Many people railed against the Brits and their market share suffered until a little company with hardly one million dollars per year manufacturing market bought the Goliath company for pennies on the dollar. Now it is owned by the ex-Safty lock company and the employees and the company is skyrocketing with new and improved models and fantastic market share.

The new research and development sector has really paid off for S&W. Smith and Wesson's new 1911's and line of M&P pistols and rifles are the best on the market and the regular line run models have all the bells and whistles standard that until now were only available on custom firearms for twice the price. They have also brought out the old models for the nostalgic collectors, but if you are looking for bargains you may want to look for an older used gun at a gun show, but buyer beware when it comes to buying old guns from unknown sources.

If you want a cheap, sorry, under $400 is cheap nowadays, new gun, you may want to look at a Taurus 605 (357) for around $350 or a Tracker in 44 for about $425, both new and stainless steel.

Unfortunately, Taurus is not the quality it once was since it is now being made in Brazil in the old Rossi plant. I would rather have a good used S&W for the same money as a new Taurus.

[Ben Brewcat]

Thanks all! BB that's very helpful. Forewarned is forearmed and if I'm gonna drop the better part of a week's pay I like to know what I'm getting :).