Video: Dee Lusby's Bees

[deknow]

anyone who has wanted to see what dee's bees are like can see 2 new workshop videos available at:

http://www.BeeUntoOthers.com

deknow

[BWrangler]

Hi Deknow and Everyone,

Those bees have the same temperament as when I visited there.

It's a good video to watch. First listen to the rapid change in sound intensity and pitch after working only one hive. Then go back and watch the bees vacate the frames and immediately fly into the air.

Listen to how things change with the camera man adds a little narration to the film. Those bees rapidly zero in on the smell of his breath.

And watch them comet after any hand or body movement. Even as a beekeeper, what kind of emotional reaction do you have? After working three hives, watch them mug the beekeeper's veil.

It only takes a few moments, with conditions like this, and anyone without complete protection would be in trouble in those yards.

It appears to be a great day to work bees. Comments indicate that they are making honey so they shouldn't be upset. And they aren't too upset for an AHB, but they would be pretty hot for any other kind.

It's a good thing they are way out there in the mouth of that isolated canyon. Image a couple of these hives in your backyard. Image a holding yard with 800 of them that needed to be fed!

And image enraged AHBs. I don't have to, as I've seen them that way, in a full fledged AHB rampage where abundant smoke and full protection is only a marginal defense for even an experienced beekeeper. Then, the only safety was is a hasty retreat in a closed vehicle.

I've seen EHBs get this way when they are worked way too long, on a very bad day, in the depths of a dearth or while robbing. It takes several hours. Many unhappy hives. And some bad weather. Happy AHBs get this way in about 5 minutes. Unhappy ones get worse than this in less than 10 seconds.

Bee temperament aside, those are some really healthy, productive, untreated bees, living in a very harsh environment. It's a great beekeeping video. Thanks again Deknow.

Regards
Dennis

[BWrangler]

Hi Deknow,

Did Remona still marry you after working Dee's bees? If so, she's one in a million!

Congrats
Dennis
Thinking this could be the ultimate test ;>)))

[IslandMountainFarm]

Wow......just watching that video was a profound emotional experience. The text accompanying the video says "There are lots of bees flying, but we were not being attacked." After watching the action in front of the keeper's veil I'm not sure I'd want to see what an actual "attack" would look or sound like.

I'm in kind of an interesting position. Started keeping bees back in the '60s as a kid. Kept bees (10-200 hives) till the mid '80s, had to get out until last year. Let me tell you, these are not the same kind of bees we worked with 40 to 50 years ago and we routinely had powerhouse hives every bit as large and full as the ones here.

The bees in that video are way more aggressive than anything the guy I learned from, and he was a master keeper from Latvia, would have allowed in our yard. Our animals and family would have been at risk with bees of that temperament. Fine if you're in full gear but anybody or anything walking by after that work could be at real risk. I noticed that for all the reassurance that they "weren't being attacked" nobody seemed to be in any hurry to get out of their gear.

Maybe we're going to have to breed for these kind of bees in order for them to regain their vigor and health, but if so, the human/bee interface is going to be dicey. I know that if I want to keep having bees on our farm I'm not going to show my wife or daughter this video. That said, what a great video of someone who knows her way around a hive.

Where do the bees get their water from at her yards?

Also, what are those gloves? I want some.

[Barry]

Where do the bees get their water from at her yards?

Also, what are those gloves? I want some.

There are large watering tanks around the area as cattle do graze on the land.
Gloves, basic dish washing gloves.

[IslandMountainFarm]

Just plain old dish washing gloves? And the girls don't get their little sharp pointy things tangled up in them? Way cool, time to trade in the 30 year old leather gauntlets and get current in the new world of beekeeping. Thanks!!

[golddust-twins]

WOW!!! What great videos!!! Impressive.

>Gloves, basic dish washing gloves.

That's all I use and make sure they are yellow. 2 pairs for a buck at the dollar store. Haven't had any problems yet...but then I do have Italians.

Corinne

[Bud Dingler]

Up here we’d requeen any bees like that or if late in the season and in old equipment, install a model rocket ignitor in the bottom slot, wait til after dark and fill the hive with a little propane and boom!

Notice how they either run or fly, that’s classic AHB hybrid behavior. EHB will cling to the comb and drip off the ends and you might need to clear a frame in order to see any brood or eggs.

At least we now have clear confirmation on why small cell works for Dee.

As they say a picture tells a story better then some published science paper.

[golddust-twins]

>Notice how they either run or fly, that’s classic AHB hybrid behavior

Yeah!! But you have to admit that lady has guts. More than I would care to diplay.

Corinne

[Joseph Clemens]

>Notice how they either run or fly, that’s classic AHB hybrid behavior

Yeah!! But you have to admit that lady has guts. More than I would care to diplay.

Corinne

Yes she does, and more strength and stamina than I - she is a very strong woman. I am now using almost exclusively 8-frame, medium depth supers, throughout my operation. I work in the shade; wearing shorts, T-shirt, and a veil draped over my head and hanging loose about my shoulders -- with my main apiary in my back yard. During inspections or queen rearing/Nuc forming manipulations, when I need to move supers that are full or almost full of honey, I certainly feel the weight as being most uncomfortable. It is difficult to imagine spending many days of the year working hundreds of colonies in 10-frame, deep supers, many full or nearly full of honey, in full gear out in the heat of the desert, far from the comforts of civilization.

I'm a 52 year old, and I consider myself to be in medium good health. I do not think I could work as hard as Dee does. I certainly hope she has some helpers.

[golddust-twins]

No matter how one looks at it, it is "Impressive". What more can one say.

Corinne

[deknow]

...i doubt you will see smoke going into more than 4 hives between these 2 videos (probably between 40-50 hives). we were also working about 100 hives in a day, and weren't washing our clothes everyday.

when you look at the aggressive factor, you have to take all this into consideration. to anyone within driving distance of massachusetts, i'm happy to come by and film you work "european" hives that are this strong, with barely any smoke, protected by an inspectors jacket, dishwashing gloves, and painters pants from walmart. fyi, the bees don't seem to like the video camera...they hit (and buzzed) the camera more than the beekeepers.

i should also mention that with the minimal protection (as detailed above), we have less than 20 hives, have never been around anything like this before, and a year ago, ramona would need to sit down in the shade from a single sting. the hardest part was not fear or stinging...it was mostly the noise (which was very loud at times).

we got married in the middle of all this...and yes, ramona is one in a million :)

deknow

[deknow]

[submitted by Ramona while her account is pending]

Hi everyone,

I've been reading over Dean's shoulder for the past year or so...finally am inspired to post!

I am a beekeeper and MY emotional response to Dee's bees (I was there, going through each and every one of those 600+ hives) was awe, amazement, calmness and a deep sense of happiness and satisfaction that her bees are as healthy, vibrant and productive as I could have hoped. I have never before had an opportunity to see such a large volume of hives and bees and after so much news about sick and struggling operations, it was so uplifting to see and experience what we did with Dee and know that sustainable, chemical free beekeeping is possible and that Dean and I both have what it takes to handle healthy bees!

My introduction to beekeeping was a wonderful book by Murray Hoyt called "The World of Bees". A few pages into it, I was captivated by how magically and incredibly he described the bees and their world. I came home and told Dean, "We need bees!" Thus began our journey. The book was published in 1965, pre-chemicals. When we went to beeschool and heard what we were expected to do to "save" our bees, I was appalled. This was not what I expected after reading that wonderful book. Until we found Dee and began to understand her complete natural system (which goes WAY beyond small cell...if you stay at or only see small cell you are missing the point) we were at a loss as to how to keep our bees alive. We are happy to be able to see for ourselves that her way DOES work, that it is simple, affordable and sustainable. It is great to have a model to work from and towards.

Back to the "emotional reaction". It was incredible to be working in yard after yard of bees, each one unique in the subtleties of what was going on in the hives, to smell the bees, to be butted by them, surrounded by so much intense noise, to have them so near to my face yet to feel completely calm and unafraid. Yes, it would not be a good idea to rip hives apart without protection! That is why we had our bodies covered. It was a joy and privilege to be able to be so close to the bees with that minimal protection and feel so safe.

Just writing this makes me miss that experience so much! I can't wait to go back to Arizona...

Ramona

[golddust-twins]

Thank you both for such great videos--I watched them again...Exhilarating!

>it was so uplifting to see and experience what we did with Dee and know that sustainable, chemical free beekeeping is possible<
Yes it was and very encouraging.

>Just writing this makes me miss that experience so much! I can't wait to go back to Arizona...<
If this were my experience I would feel the same way.

thanks again for posting these videos and sharing your experience,
Corinne

[BWrangler]

Hi Deknow, Remona, and Everyone,

After working those kinds of bees, in that situation, you've passed the test. You're incurably hooked on beekeeping! Which means you're almost nuts :>)))

I've been hooked since birth. My first day, over 40 years ago, with the bees was much the same. Pulled into a yard of about 60 hives of very populous hive. Untied the truck. Then the beekeeper tied one end of the rope to the bee truck. He had me stretch out the rope. Paced it's length. Then dumb founded me by tyeing it around my waste! I was just a kid, so happy to have the job, I didn't object.

He said that help was hard to find and that he wanted to keep me around. Knowing the length of the rope would let him know how much time to give me. So that he could rescue me before I could get it untied when panicked.

I thought is was joke and untied the rope. Later, I found out there was more truth to it than I thought. :>))) His bees were very hot! Very much like the ones you worked. But I loved working the bees knowing nothing else.

And I didn't run until, several weeks later, when I caught my veil on a nail and tore a hole in bottom part of it. Before long I had dozens of bees inside it and had been stung numerous times on the throat and ears. The smell enraged the bees. I continued working but found it hard to see, as they covered my veil faster than I could glove them off. At that point, the beekeeper put me under the back of his truck and smoked the bees off me. It took several minutes and I almost passed out from the smoke!

The attack abated, I crawled out from under the truck and resumed working. So did the bees. And they worked me over again. This time I took off. I figured I could outrun them. But after a short distance it became obvious that was futile.

So, I tried to out smart them. I zigged and zagged rather than running in a straight line. I remember looking back in amazement and watching a trail of bees following me out of the beeyard. And that trail zigged and zagged behind me just like a contrail follows a jet.

As I ran, I eyed a very large and deep irrigation canal paralleling my path. It was a toss up. Should I hit the ditch or try to out distance them. Fortunately, distance seemed to work. After a half mile, only a few dozens of bees and those inside my veil remained. So, I took the veil off and dispatched them.

After regaining my composure, I suited up and returned to the beeyard. I expected to get fired. And I thought that might not be a bad thing. But instead, I found the truck rope neatly coiled up on one end of the beeyard. They thought I was going into the canal and that they would have to fish me out.

My sons have been around bees since their birth. Their introduction to bees was very different than mine. They watched me work bees without any protection. They held frames, spotted queens, sampled honey from a frame, etc. They spent time wondering around beeyards and the countryside as I worked them.

And they were always never more than a few tens of feet from a live hive. I had an observation hive in the house. And I had a couple of hives on the patio. They got stung early. Learned to respect the bees, but enjoyed watching them at the entrance. And they were quite conscious of any unusual change in bee behavior, even as pre-schoolers.

When they got into elementary school, they worked in a commercial bee business. And they saw the good, bad and ugly of it.

My youngest son went with me to Arizona. He got out of the van in the same beeyard you were in. And in less than a minute, met the same kind of bee response you encounted after about 15 minutes of working hives. He was just suiting up at the time. He walked over to look at a hive entrance and was overcome before he could get his veil on. I had to wrap his head in my shirt and rush him back into a closed van.

The fury was so fast and intense that the beekeeper at the back of the van couldn't get a smoker lit using matches. The bees would snuff them out! When the matches ran out, the beekeeper attempted to retrieve a bic lighter. Unfortunately it was underneath the beesuit. And that beekeeper was severely stung up trying to fetch it out. Those bees chased three experienced beekeepers, who routinely take a hundred stings/day without problems, and my son out of that yard.

That was the end of my son's beekeeping. You see, he wasn't nuts like his dad. He worked the bees to help me and for the money.

I've always regretting exposing my son to that situation. I should have known better regardless of what some others had said. He should have been completely suited up before we got to the beeyard in AHB country.

I was just thankful that those were the non-AHB, stress free, gentle, happy, Houseled bees, on a great day, during a honey flow, and not the other kind! :>))))

I guess loving beekeeping is alot like love in general. You've got to be a little nuts. You're probably going to get stung up a little. But you'll have lots of fun and become more wise as time passes.

Regards
Dennis

[lstclair]

Just plain old dish washing gloves? And the girls don't get their little sharp pointy things tangled up in them? Way cool, time to trade in the 30 year old leather gauntlets and get current in the new world of beekeeping. Thanks!!

Aren't rubber gloves awfully hot? (I don't wear gloves, and rarely bother with a jacket.)

When I watched the film, the resolution wasn't good enough for me to see where the bees were--though some were certainly head-butting the camera after a few minutes! But they are flying around a lot. I've had colonies do that when I really tore them up searching for a queen (without necessarily getting stung myself).

[Jeffrey Todd]

The comments by Dee Lusby and others in the video imply that they do not believe those bees to be Africanized; does anyone know if a good sampling of her bees have ever been sent to a lab to test for Africanization?
Regardless of their DNA or morphometrics, would you trade your bees for hers?


PS Even Iddee might have to wear a veil in this situation!

[Keith Benson]

It just goes to show, that one person's "hot bees" are not necessarily another person's "hot bees". If they were mine, I'd pinch the queen and requeen with gentler stock, but I suspect I'm not as tough as Dee. I suspect most people are not as tough as Dee.;)

Keith

[George Fergusson]

I was scared just watching the videos.

[Gene Weitzel]

When I checked two of the 25 hives in my home yard yesterday, they were runny and a little excitable, I took about 10 stings on the hands (I was working glovless w/minimal smoke). They were brooded up nicely and almost ready to super. When I finished, I was considering re-queening them, now after seeing these videos, those two hives don't seem so hot anymore, maybe I'll wait and see how much honey they make.

[buckbee]

I know how long those queens would have lasted in Brother Adam's apiary!

"We are not being attacked!" the guy says at 36:29, with his head almost hidden in a cloud of bees. If he wasn't being attacked, why was he wearing a suit and veil?

[Ramona]

Gene, your post made me really happy! Yes, things are relative. I myself am laughing at what I thought of as a lively hive now that I have gone through 600 with Dee and Dean. And I am alive and well and am able to tell about how amazing it was to see those healthy, productive bees. Please keep us posted on how yours do this year!

The guy in "suit" and veil is my new husband (deknow); we were there in Arizona together and I too will testify that we were not being "attacked". We were all in jackets and veils and painter pants (not full suits) because we were working quickly, without any smoke in most cases, splitting hives and knew that a lot of bees would be flying, wondering where a chunk of their house was going. To me an attack would have felt entirely different and really scary. I never felt afraid or even anxious. Yes, it was a physically intense experience but I guess you had to be there...being there felt really different to me than the video seems to be making many others feel...and any who know me know that I am not a big physical risk-taker.

We had met Dee in February and visited her hives then, watching her set up cow-tipped hives with barely any protection at all. I knew from watching her that she knew what she was doing and that if we paid attention and stayed calm that we would be fine with her bees. Am so glad that we had that experience...much more rewarding than jumping out of an airplane which I don't think I could ever be convinced to do!

Ramona

[Michael Bush]

>If they were mine, I'd pinch the queen and requeen with gentler stock

Me too.

> but I suspect I'm not as tough as Dee. I suspect most people are not as tough as Dee.

I suspect most people are not.

When I first visited Dee I only saw one yard that was anything like the one in the video out of about ten yards we went through and I never saw her wear gloves. The rest were much nicer. But still after going through ten yards I never got stung.

The proportion had shifted somewhat by the last visit in February and only about half of them were much nicer than that one.

[Gene Weitzel]

Romona,

You mentioned splitting hives. Were you just splitting the boxes or were you taking frames of brood to make up splits? With the latter, I have found it kind of difficult with a runny excitable hive since by the time I get the frames into the nucs all the nurse bees have vacated them. Even when I move quickly and try to shake more into the nuc, it seems that more end up in the air than in the nuc. Was there a secret?

[Joseph Clemens]

About eight years ago, when all my colonies were of feral origins or splits of the same. They were all very runny and even without smoke the bees of the entire colony would be running together very rapidly throughout the hive - and out of it too. Whenever I would attempt to shake bees from frames into other containers, supers, cardboard boxes, etc. invariably almost all of them would be flying well before reaching their intended container. If I were to consider any bees AHB, those would be the ones. As has been said, the resolution of the video's wasn't sharp enough to see how the bees were moving on their combs, or if they may have been as ready to take flight as the bees I describe above.

[kirk-o]

I was there one year ago in March and purchased two Nucs.We went through two or three hives till we found ones we liked.It took about 45 minutes two find the queen each time but I didn't find the bees overly agggressive.I think because of Dees expertise as a beekeeper and the enviroment she is in those bees are probably just perfect.I'm sure when ED was alive she raised queens and requeened herself.She is a very self-determined Being
I think she has it worked out pretty good
kirk-o

[Dearth Vader]

I would like to see a higher resolution copy of this. deknow, could you make copies that we could purchase?

[deknow]

yes, the dvd's are stunning, and will be available for purchase in the next couple of weeks...lots of video editing to do, as there is much more footage...these 2 required no editing, so they went up first.

deknow

[golddust-twins]

Thanks deknow, these would be great to have so let us know when they are ready.

Corinne

[Scott J.]

In July of 2006 I met Dee and Ed. They took me out to several yards to pull honey. For protection I just wore my blue jeans and a half suit with no gloves. Yes there were alot of bees in the air, but they were not being agressive twards me. They seemed to be curious and flew around me like you see in the video. I did take one sting in the hand when I trapped it when picking up a box. I think these are great bees for the location they are in.
Dee and Ed were very generous with their time to teach me new ways of keeping bees.

[TwT]

very nice video's, and a quote from the guy filming

(@ 11:00 into the 2nd film) "again if these were killer bee's then I couldn't stand in front of the entrances filming"

and then a shot of Dee working hives with a cloud of bee's and head covered with then, WHAT WAS THIS GUYS SMOKING????? good lord I would hate to see what AHB"s would be like, my nerves couldn't handle that I don't recon..... one tough women!!!!!!!

[deknow]

gene,
as you rightly point out, simply pulling some frames for a split would be difficult in this kind of situation. a few keys (not secrets):

1. make the split from a whole box
2. eyeball the box (or pull one frame up partway) to see if (in your best judgement) there is enough brood to make a split. when you decide there are, move the whole box to the new location (over an empty box of comb), and cover temporarily. after this, go to the parent hive, and make sure there are at least 2 frames with open brood...if not, pull them from the split. by doing this _after_ moving the split, the nurse bees stay with the split (that needs the population). the field bees fly back to the original hive, and will take over nurse duties if necessary.
3. the idea is to give both the parent colony and the split strenth. the split is strong because it has a lot (at least 6 frames) of brood...the parent colony because it has all the field bees. the queen is somewhere, but with a split of this strength, it matters little where.

this is all very clearly seen in the videos i think, now that you know what to look for.

deknow

[Bud Dingler]

Jeffrey Todd
wrote

"The comments by Dee Lusby and others in the video imply that they do not believe those bees to be Africanized; does anyone know if a good sampling of her bees have ever been sent to a lab to test for Africanization?"


on the other bee list someone posted this past week how Dee sent some queens to FL and the beekeeper had to call in the state apiarist for backup as the offspring was too hot to handle. FL Ag Dept did testing and identified them as AHB. Dee denies the results are vaild and claims the testing was not done right......

you bee the judge - please note that the small cell house of cards rests on the Lusby model - only problem is AHB have no problems with mites so that kind of nixes the significance of small cell claims. so there you have it in a nutshell. Dee has every reason in the world to deny her bees are AHB although they look AHB in video, she lives deep in the heart of AHB country and used "local" stock, AND we have FL Dept of Ag analysis (they do this routinely now with AHB in the state) saying they are AHB.

lots of people never believed columbus either when he said the world was not flat.

the morrow of the story is if you want to keep bees with no chems
skip the regression to small cell and get your hands on some AHB.

[kirk-o]

I have been to Dees and purchased two nucs from her a year ago in March.I was in the morning about 10 am and a bit cool.But we went to one of her yards and went through a couple of hives.We found the queens in each hive and made two nucs.She showed me how to see if the bees were to hot.She would wave her hand across the top of the bars back and forth if they came up and after her hand she considered them hot.The two hives I went through with her to get the two nucs weren't to hot.I brought them home put them up by dodgers stadium.I had Bees in 1970 in Fruit Heights Utah that were so hot that the neighboors called me and told me the bees were chaseing the Ducks.I had to move them
and re-queen. I have the idea because they are Africanized dosen't mean they are hot.All I have now is swarms I catch I don't purchase bees any more.The last five years I have had one hive that was so mean I divided it into three hives per instructions on Michael Bush's page it solved the problem.I think Dee is in a fine situation her Philosphy her uncompromising
position and her skill as a beekeeper makes it possible for her success in a very Hard Enviroment.I would get bees from her again.But I have solved my bee supply problem her in Los Angeles.Just remember there are mean bees and they aren't just the Africanized bees.You can read about mean Italians and Mean Russian bees also.I'm sure we all have stories of mean bees.
kirk

[pcelar]

WOW!!! What great videos!!! Impressive.
I didn't see anything impressive. Maybe I am missing something. I am wandering what is impressive? I stopped watching the video after about 2 min. I saw poor video, loud people, and very rough handling of bees. :(

[buckbee]

Just remember there are mean bees and they aren't just the Africanized bees.You can read about mean Italians and Mean Russian bees also.I'm sure we all have stories of mean bees.
kirk

We do, but we don't film them and show them off as examples of what great bee breeders we are! :eek: