Transfering bees

[peterm]

Good Day

I have 2 Jackson top bar hives as an experiment in using top bar hives as compared to traditional Langsforth boxes. The top bar is a 25 frame box but the girls have built across the frames and not along albeit in the presence of starter strips. I have no option but to destroy this hive as there is no way of opening the hives without wrecking the comb. My intention is to move the bees into a Langsforth hive and here is my dilema. When is the best time to do this with the least stress to the colony? I would imagine that end of winter and before the spring build up would be the best time to do this.I am in Cape Town South Africa and as such work with Apis Melifera Capensis - not quite as aggresive as AM Scutellata but fiesty none the less.

[sellis]

i would say that yes do it before they start building up on the young but can u also do me a favor and video tape this as i would love to see this done ..scott

[peterm]

I would love to Scott, but I have to find a willing cameraman/woman who wants to be up close to huge swarm of very angry bees. I haven't counted but I have been told that a 25 frame hive can have up to 200 000 bees in attendance - very daunting to most never mind the bee-keeper !

[Michael Bush]

The Jackson hive is made of plastic cardboard right? Can you open the end up to get in and do a cut out? Tie the combs into frames and put them all back together.

[peterm]

Yes , the Jackson hive is corrugated plastic and I will have to destroy the box - pity. I was just trying to get a consensus on when the best time would be to do this with the least stress to my girls and with the possibilty of fitting all the girls into a single Langsforth brood box.

[Joseph Clemens]

Langstroth, not Langsforth.

[peterm]

Dyslexic keyboard

[JaiPea]

> a 25 frame hive can have up to 200 000 bees

Nah...., more like 20-25% of that. When you are surrounded though, it seems like 200,000.

Unless you have an urgent desire to do a cutout, take the time to try a migration. Plug the entrance and turn the Jackson hive upside down (be gentle, you don't want to break the combs). Use a hole saw above the broodnest but do not weaken the integrity as you need to put a Lang on top. Drill an entrance hole at the top of the Lang, or use a bottom board as the top cover.

Ideally, the Lang should have drawn comb, some frames with open honey cells and a frame of eggs/brood. You want to encourage the bees and the queen to go up there. If you are lucky, the queen will decide to winter over in the Lang, and you can take it off the Jackson.

If you are determined to do a cutout, the Jackson Hive is no different to a long box Lang, and the comb should be recoverable without damage to the Jackson. Although the bees have built differently to the direction you wanted, much of the comb will be reasonably straight.

Use a circular saw to cut through the frame top bars just inside the side dowel on each side. If the comb is not built all the way to the end then removing the unbuilt top bars is easy. If it is all the way, removing the first top bar is difficult but you will have an easier time removing the rest. Do not start at the brood end, start at the back.

If you don't have a bee vacuum, build or borrow one as you need the bees out of the way somehow and it is by far the easiest. Do not use too much pressure, only enough to pick up the bees. If the bees boil out when you disturb them walk away and let them settle down before going back. You want to vacuum the bees as they become acessible but avoid sucking any honey from the combs because that will coat the bees and kill them. Even hostile bees tend to become less aggressive after about half of them have been vacuumed.

The honeycombs can be put into a bucket, and as you approach the brood nest you will have more working room. Take the time to build some swarm frames as per http://www.beesource.com/plans/swarmframe.htm to hold the brood comb. They will make your life much easier, and remove the outside combs in the nest area first as they are the least likely to have brood.

When you have removed the top bars you will be looking at accessible comb. This photo is of a different situation, but after you have the top bars removed it will look a lot like what the bees built under the floor as at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus/March122008/photo#5177059299747266370

You can probably do a cutout 10 months of the year where you live, according to Weather.com it is in the low 80's at present. Pick a day in the 60's or low 70's for your personal comfort.