What to do with honey from CCD hives.

[IndianaHoney]

I got hit with CCD this year. I have lots of hives with lots of honey remaining, but the bees won't rob it. What woud you do with this honey? Extract, or feed to the bees after letting them air out?

[naturebee]

I just have 1 question and 1 comment.

How do you know it was CCD?

Concerning this “CCD symptom” of CCD hives not being robbed or infested with waxworm etc.
I would not expect bees to be doing much robbing of anything this time of year, nor wax worm, etc.
And yet this is said to be a symptom of CCD? ;)

That’s the problem with these CCD diagnoses. They are so ambiguous, many things can be determined to be CCD.

AS far as the honey, I would treat it as I would any honey. IF exposed to treatments, feed it back to the bees, if not exposed to any contaminants, extract it for human consumption.

Best Wishes,
Joe

[IndianaHoney]

Thanks for the advice on the honey.

The reason I suspect CCD, is there are no bees remaining in the hive. Nothing living, nothing dead.

The strange thing is that I have no mouse guards on a few of the CCD hives, and no mouse guards on a couple of hives that died from starvation (not being able to move to their stores durring cold weather). The mice have infested the hives that died from starvation, and no signs of mice in the CCD hives.

[WVbeekeeper]

Personally, if I thought I had a colony die out from CCD I would not use any of the equipment again or try to feed the honey back to any other colonies. I had seen some numbers on reusing CCD equipment the following year by installing packages in them. If I remember correctly the survival rate of the new colony in the old CCD equipment was not very good, even after irradiating the equipment. If you have ever used any chemical treatments on that comb I would not eat the honey or sell it to anyone.

[naturebee]

The reason I suspect CCD, is there are no bees remaining in the hive. Nothing living, nothing dead.

This is a common occurrence in wintering bees.
TM will cause this, varroa mite has been known to cause this, many other stresses will cause this. Has been occuring for hundereds of years.

Remember that according to the experts diagnosing CCD. Part of the diagnoses is that ‘more than 50% of the hives are affected’. If less than 50% have this symptom, then it is NOT ccd according to the ambiguous and flimsy diagnostic symptoms put forward.



The strange thing is that I have no mouse guards on a few of the CCD hives, and no mouse guards on a couple of hives that died from starvation (not being able to move to their stores durring cold weather). The mice have infested the hives that died from starvation, and no signs of mice in the CCD hives.

Nothing unusual here.
Mice are scavengers, dead bees are highly sought after by mice for their protein.
Why would a mouse want to eat honey and pollen when he can have a full course meal in the neighboring hive?

Best Wishes,
Joe

[naturebee]

Personally, if I thought I had a colony die out from CCD I would not use any of the equipment again or try to feed the honey back to any other colonies,,,

CCD is an unknown cause. They have NO positive cause for CCD.

So what you are saying here is any colony that exhibit’s an 'unknown cause of death' should have the equipment and honey disposed of?

Why would one unknown be any safer than any another unknown? ;)

If you do not know the cause, then you must dispose then RIGHT??? ;)


,,,,,, or try to feed the honey back to any other colonies,,,

Now the experts DID SAY that CCD does not effect the honey, and it is “safe for human consumption”. So why would strangly not be safe for the bees?
To my knowledge,,,
There was NO official advisment from experts 'not to reuse equipment'.

I’m not picking on any of the above folks, its just that this CCD thing has evolved into a MASS hysteria, to the magnitude that beekeepers are making the symptoms fit the diagnosis. The diagnosis of CCD is so ambiguous, even poor management will give the appearance of symptoms that resemble CCD.

To prove a point,
The news paper article from the files at:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles/
posted below fit’s the description of CCD perfectly.

BUT what is CCD doing in England during 1794???

Isn’t CCD a “NEW disease?” “NEVER before seen?”

The Edinburgh Advertiser
Tuesday, October 07, 1794 Edinburgh, Midlothian

“The following extraordinary instance of the industry
of Bees, happened this season in a bee hive the property
of Mr. John Scotland, Merchant, Dunfermline.
In his garden adjoining the bridge, a hive was cast upon
the 18th June last, and smoked the 1st. of September,
when it weight 153 lb. gross; of which there were
upwards of 100 lb. of the finest honey-comb, besides
others intermixed with bee bread. Had the honey been
all extracted from the wax, it would have contained
about 24 pints. What is very remarkable, when the hive
was smoked, there were not above 200 bees in it;
and this great quantity of honey was amassed in little
more than three weeks; for during the six weeks before
It was smoked it increased little or nothing weight.”

Best Wishes,
Joe

[WVbeekeeper]

CCD is an unknown cause. They have NO positive cause for CCD.

So what you are saying here is any colony that exhibit’s an 'unknown cause of death' should have the equipment and honey disposed of?

Why would one unknown be any safer than any another unknown? ;)

If you do not know the cause, then you must dispose then RIGHT??? ;)

Now would you reuse the the CCD deadouts or feed the honey to your bees or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? If you would take your perfectly healthy colonies and install them on untreated comb from CCD deadouts then I will believe the validity of the points you are trying so hard to make.



The reason I suspect CCD, is there are no bees remaining in the hive. Nothing living, nothing dead.

The strange thing is that I have no mouse guards on a few of the CCD hives, and no mouse guards on a couple of hives that died from starvation (not being able to move to their stores durring cold weather). The mice have infested the hives that died from starvation, and no signs of mice in the CCD hives.

Here's the symtoms of CCD,

"CCD Symptoms Defined:
- Rapid loss of bee colony’s population with very few bees found near colonies,
as evidenced by a large amount of brood and insufficient bee coverage (see
Fig 1 and 2).
- Laying queen present is accompanied by few apparently young attendant bees.
- Honey and pollen present and remains not consumed by secondary invaders"

There are some pictures of brood frames and more info on this link.
http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/CCDPpt/PathogenSub-GroupProjectMay142007.pdf
If you have absolutely no bees in the colony maybe they absconded. One of the symptoms is a laying queen...

[naturebee]

Now would you reuse the the CCD deadouts or feed the honey to your bees or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?

One might accuse you of arguing a case that indianahoney has CCD. ;)
In spite of many << symptoms lacking >> in indianahoney’s post.

Thank God you are not a doctor, you might be in for a malpractice lawsuit for the total disregarding the clear list of symptoms associated with the “disease”. ;)

So, I reserve the right to cross examine your argument. ;)



If you would take your perfectly healthy colonies and install them on untreated comb from CCD deadouts then I will believe the validity of the points you are trying so hard to make.



I would have absolutely no fear in reusing equipment from any dead out from a dead out that has not been determined to be AFB or Nosema.

These symptoms seen in this “CCD” are common, and have been happening for hundreds of years. They are all compounded stress related deaths, with perhaps no 2 colonies having the exact same set of causes responsible for the collapse. CCD is IMO simply a term that states:
“the cause is unknown but similar to others occurring”.
It by know means dictates the exact cause, only that similarities exist.

There is NO clear evidence that Indianahoney has CCD.
Symptoms are clearly lacking in this case!
The symptoms described can be related to queenlessness, varroa, TM OR a host of other culprits.




"CCD Symptoms Defined:
- Rapid loss of bee colony’s population with very few bees found near colonies,
as evidenced by a large amount of brood and insufficient bee coverage (see
Fig 1 and 2).
- Laying queen present is accompanied by few apparently young attendant bees..

OK, Nowhere did see Indianahoney state that there was any brood OR a laying queen OR few attendant bees,
OR rapid loss of bee colony's population.
And yet with a LACKING of these important diagnostic symptoms you are affirming that this is CCD? ;)

Best Wishes,
Joe